the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2018 22:45:32 GMT -5
Reggie and Mugsy didn't play the same format that exists today. Neither did Keith Booth and Donta Bright. That changed in 1993 when Baltimore City joined the rest of county teams in the state playoff structure. But back then everyone knew the best talent was in the City. Not just Maryland, but the country. Baltimore City high school basketball teams, like a lot of public city schools (including DC), aren't what they were in Mugsy or Keith Booth's days. Back then, the top players played for the local city public schools. Nowadays they transfer to academies, or these catholic/christian schools. Not to say talent today isn't good, but some of top the talent are plucked away before they even go to college. A talented kid is a talented kid. Some kids can make the jump to college even if they played in a weak league. Some take time to adjust and then thrive. Some don't cut it at all. Just have to wait and see what happens with the incoming freshman. We've seen it with Hoyas such as Vernon "The Next KG" Macklin. We've also seen it with Charles Smith who was told by JT2 he was being recruited as a role player and not expect to start during his time here. You just don't know how things will turn out until people get on campus and play at the college level.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 11, 2018 23:05:56 GMT -5
He's somewhere between a rich man's Ayinde Hikim and a poor man's Sherwyn Devonish.
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 11, 2018 23:50:16 GMT -5
You could also ask about both of these teams with their respective players. They improved no doubt, but neither team really lit the world on fire -- both squeaked into the tournament field. Maybe one or both will go on deep runs, but in some ways I think Sexton and Young are cautionary tales on building around talent and not expecting one or two players to make you a title contender. That said, for purposes of this thread, if in 3 years McClung is even approaching what Young and Sexton are as freshmen, I would think this board would be ecstatic. Bottom line, McClung is hopefully a great player in the making. But I worry that comparing him to these sorts of players is just setting him up for failure. I am not comparing McClung to Sexton and Young, but instead arguing that it is absurd to ignore the impact of freshman for fear that they are over-hyped. Of course, this does require reading my argument over several posts and not noting that I wrote the names Sexton and Young on the Mac thread. Ok, but in noting that freshmen can have impact, you cited to two of the highest-impact freshmen this year and even in recent years (I'm excluding schools like Duke and Kentucky here who routinely build teams around freshmen). And you also ignored my broader point that the Sexton-Young turnaround narrative is a bit short of the mark in that both teams barely made the tournament. Alabama for what it's worth also made the NIT the last several years, so Sexton basically nudged them from an NIT team to an NCAA team. A big impact, but I'm not putting a lot of stake in Alabama advancing far. My family and in-laws will probably beg to differ. But whatever. I hope McClung is great. I hope he has immediate impact. I hope all the freshmen do. But I agree with the general observation of others that it is wrong to just expect those contributions, particularly as a starting player.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,007
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Post by dense on Mar 12, 2018 5:27:44 GMT -5
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,306
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 12, 2018 6:07:26 GMT -5
Good Lord is this going to be a long offseason or what? I can't wait for McClung to play in the Kenner League. Will McDonough be packed? Kenner is my Hoya fix over the long hot summer and I'll make the drive in from Delaware to watch some games.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,297
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 12, 2018 6:39:05 GMT -5
If you don’t think MM can really play, then you haven’t actually seen him in action. He’ll be the best combination of grit and athleticism GU will have had in its backcourt in a very, very long time. Forget the stars and the classification - this kid is Pat’s John Duren.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 12, 2018 6:45:08 GMT -5
Reggie and Mugsy didn't play the same format that exists today. Neither did Keith Booth and Donta Bright. That changed in 1993 when Baltimore City joined the rest of county teams in the state playoff structure. But back then everyone knew the best talent was in the City. Not just Maryland, but the country. Baltimore City high school basketball teams, like a lot of public city schools (including DC), aren't what they were in Mugsy or Keith Booth's days. Back then, the top players played for the local city public schools. Nowadays they transfer to academies, or these catholic/christian schools. Not to say talent today isn't good, but some of top the talent are plucked away before they even go to college. A talented kid is a talented kid. Some kids can make the jump to college even if they played in a weak league. Some take time to adjust and then thrive. Some don't cut it at all. Just have to wait and see what happens with the incoming freshman. We've seen it with Hoyas such as Vernon "The Next KG" Macklin. We've also seen it with Charles Smith who was told by JT2 he was being recruited as a role player and not expect to start during his time here. You just don't know how things will turn out until people get on campus and play at the college level. BS! Those players grew up in the neighborhood they played in. Don't give me that bs. Today's talent is good. You have 3 public school teams at #1 in the State of Maryland. That's dominant! You can pluck all the talent away from BCPS's all you want too, but will ALWAYS be talent here. I know, I grew up here from adolescence. Did you? I know what our kids do. I had a son who played and been dealing with all of this forever! I didn't say a thing about Charles Smith did I? beenaround Stop making dumb excuses! Baltimore is a hotbed for talent and will always be!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 8:12:30 GMT -5
Absurd expectations for a 3 star kid. So, this would explain why he is not in the ESPN Top 100. If he had committed to Duke, he'd be a 4-star and ESPN would have him ranked in the Top 50.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Mar 12, 2018 9:26:45 GMT -5
Ba Ba did not have Mac's hops.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Mar 12, 2018 9:33:12 GMT -5
If Mac is half as good as BaBa I'll be very happy
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,306
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 12, 2018 9:40:06 GMT -5
Ba Ba did not have Mac's hops. Ba Ba was built like a tight end. Or linebacker. Loved his style of play.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Mar 12, 2018 9:49:42 GMT -5
If you don’t think MM can really play, then you haven’t actually seen him in action. He’ll be the best combination of grit and athleticism GU will have had in its backcourt in a very, very long time. Forget the stars and the classification - this kid is Pat’s John Duren. Please don't go there with John Duren. If he is even half the contributor i'll be ecstatic. I've seen many of the mixtapes and parts of games from high school. I've also watched 3 or 4 full games with team Loaded VA. He's a solid good 3rd guard on a pretty talented team. plays within himself and to what the coach wants him to do. Very little have I seen from his AAU performance suggests anything near the hoopla we have created here. The kid does a lot of things well and loves his grit and the excitement he brings. How that translates to the next level that I believe we want him at, we will see come December. Still think we need a very solid point who can defend from day one and a solid 2 with range.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 12, 2018 10:50:19 GMT -5
He's somewhere between a rich man's Ayinde Hikim and a poor man's Sherwyn Devonish. This is how ignorant as one can get.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 12, 2018 10:51:43 GMT -5
If you don’t think MM can really play, then you haven’t actually seen him in action. He’ll be the best combination of grit and athleticism GU will have had in its backcourt in a very, very long time. Forget the stars and the classification - this kid is Pat’s John Duren. Please don't go there with John Duren. If he is even half the contributor i'll be ecstatic. I've seen many of the mixtapes and parts of games from high school. I've also watched 3 or 4 full games with team Loaded VA. He's a solid good 3rd guard on a pretty talented team. plays within himself and to what the coach wants him to do. Very little have I seen from his AAU performance suggests anything near the hoopla we have created here. The kid does a lot of things well and loves his grit and the excitement he brings. How that translates to the next level that I believe we want him at, we will see come December. Still think we need a very solid point who can defend from day one and a solid 2 with range. I'm sleepy ...
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 12, 2018 10:53:17 GMT -5
If you don’t think MM can really play, then you haven’t actually seen him in action. He’ll be the best combination of grit and athleticism GU will have had in its backcourt in a very, very long time. Forget the stars and the classification - this kid is Pat’s John Duren. You tell em!
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 12, 2018 17:06:38 GMT -5
No matter where you stand on Mac, I'm not sure how AAU games almost a year old became the gold standard for evaluating him. I get the "well it's better competition" part and that's true but it's also a year ago. The difference between last year and this year for him is a pretty big jump. He averaged 29 a game last year. I think this year his worst game was 26. And he didn't just break a record, he broke everyone's records (Iverson, Tanner, Reddick) and won the state title.
AAU is a data point sure, and if he were overwhelmed by the competition and not just OK, it would be a red flag. But that's not the case and he's clearly a better player now. How much so we'll see.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Mar 12, 2018 17:14:43 GMT -5
I've been waiting for someone to say that, Giga.
I've watched his full games from the AAU open periods - now his regular season culminating in the state title game.
He looks like a different player - and I think it's also a byproduct of being a different athlete. He's bigger and stronger - some of that is accentuated by the level of comp and athletes he goes against - so maybe it's a bit of a trick on the eyes but it has stuck out to me. From all accounts he takes his training seriously as an athlete as much as he does a basketball player and it shows. He's taken a strength and pushed it further.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 12, 2018 18:03:51 GMT -5
He will be absolutely fantastic - we have no other choice .
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,009
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 12, 2018 19:47:09 GMT -5
I've been waiting for someone to say that, Giga. I've watched his full games from the AAU open periods - now his regular season culminating in the state title game. He looks like a different player - and I think it's also a byproduct of being a different athlete. He's bigger and stronger - some of that is accentuated by the level of comp and athletes he goes against - so maybe it's a bit of a trick on the eyes but it has stuck out to me. From all accounts he takes his training seriously as an athlete as much as he does a basketball player and it shows. He's taken a strength and pushed it further. Part of it may be what was needed from him. Gate City needed him to be ‘the man.’ Team Loaded needed him to be a complimentary piece. Being adaptable might be another strength. Hopefully, we can get the player who can impose himself on the game while getting everyone else involved. I suspect Mac will get his points....even if they are just from the free throw line after fouls. If he can be challenged by the coaches to get 7+ assists per game, that will make both himself and the team great. He could really get MD and JG some easy looks if that was a priority for him.
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justsaying
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 709
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Post by justsaying on Mar 12, 2018 20:25:25 GMT -5
Reggie and Mugsy didn't play the same format that exists today. Neither did Keith Booth and Donta Bright. That changed in 1993 when Baltimore City joined the rest of county teams in the state playoff structure. But back then everyone knew the best talent was in the City. Not just Maryland, but the country. Baltimore City high school basketball teams, like a lot of public city schools (including DC), aren't what they were in Mugsy or Keith Booth's days. Back then, the top players played for the local city public schools. Nowadays they transfer to academies, or these catholic/christian schools. Not to say talent today isn't good, but some of top the talent are plucked away before they even go to college. A talented kid is a talented kid. Some kids can make the jump to college even if they played in a weak league. Some take time to adjust and then thrive. Some don't cut it at all. Just have to wait and see what happens with the incoming freshman. We've seen it with Hoyas such as Vernon "The Next KG" Macklin. We've also seen it with Charles Smith who was told by JT2 he was being recruited as a role player and not expect to start during his time here. You just don't know how things will turn out until people get on campus and play at the college level. BS! Those players grew up in the neighborhood they played in. Don't give me that bs. Today's talent is good. You have 3 public school teams at #1 in the State of Maryland. That's dominant! You can pluck all the talent away from BCPS's all you want too, but will ALWAYS be talent here. I know, I grew up here from adolescence. Did you? I know what our kids do. I had a son who played and been dealing with all of this forever! I didn't say a thing about Charles Smith did I? beenaround Stop making dumb excuses! Baltimore is a hotbed for talent and will always be! Agreed, there is still talent in Bmore. And usually they are those tough, gritty, hard nosed players. The true measure of a player is not the league he plays in but that heart that is inside his chest.
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