mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Jan 10, 2019 20:16:37 GMT -5
Apologies for changing the subject from the Tremont Waters soap opera ( personally, long term, I’ll take James) but I have a question re Patrick’s coaching. I am a big fan of Pat- always have been- and I love his players ( e.g. Akingo, MAC, Josh, Malinowski, and don’t shoot the deep three first time you touch the ball Carter). My question is: does he have a talented enough support staff ( asst. coaches)? It looks to me like the players like and respect their head coach, but he is a first time college coach. He needs help. In the opinion of those reading this: does he have it? He has guys who have coached in multiple places but, are they familiar with the system is my question. I'm a huge fan of the system, I love an up-tempo style of play, fits the modern game and gets easier shots. The key to having a good up-tempo style is a good defense. By defending and closing possessions, this team is capable of scoring off of misses. There needs to be a solid defensive system to fit the play style and I haven't seen that yet. Hopefully one of the guys on the staff can scheme up a good defense before it's too late on this season.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,300
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Post by smokeyjack on Jan 10, 2019 20:24:44 GMT -5
REmember JTIII's first class. It was patchwork just like Ewing's. It included Josh "the dagger" Thorton, Marc Egerson, Octavius Spann, and Jessie Sapp. Only Sapp stayed four years. I think that is comparable to Blair, Pickett, Walker & Sodom. Hopefully Blair & Pickett both contribute for four years. Year 2 after III had on-court success, we got Summers, Macklin & Rivers. Ewing's class of Akinjo, McClung, Leblanc & Carter could certainly be better after their careers are over than JTIII had in his second class. III also was lucky to get Green & Hibbert and bring along Wallace. Green & Hibbert were both mid-100 (140 to 160 range) recruits that got a lot of time early and played way above their rankings. While Ewing inherited Jessie & Marcus, that was essentially it in terms of starters and that was a one year and two year starter respectively versus the three to four years you got out of Green & Hibbert. Technically, JT3's 1st class was Green, Hibbert, Guibunda & Wallace of that group only Green came in with any fan fair... His 2nd class was the Thornton, Egerson, Spann & Sapp crew... Also, Gtown landed Summers, Macklin & Rivers before the 2005-06 season began so it was their performance in year one that helped land Summers, mack & Rivers not the sweet 16 run... The truth is in one offseason JT3 & staff molded a core of Bowman, Cook, Owens, Green & Wallace into a pretty solid group, I think it's fair to say that Hoya fans knew that he was onto something almost right away. Yes, JT3 walked into a better situation and achieved exponentially more with what he “was left” right out of the gate. I’m actually still shocked at JT3’s regression as a coach. I guess he put all his eggs in the basket of high-post trigger offense predicated on skill over athleticism and at the expense of recruiting high-end guards. That strategic choice killed him. The college game was, is and will always be guard-centric. Ironically, I think JT3 might be quite good as an NBA Coach. His system in college relied on accumulating 2/3 kinds of kids who were 6-9 with soft touch and handles - the best of those are top-15 recruits, not typically GU kids. Jeff Green and Otto P don’t fall into your lap every season.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Jan 10, 2019 20:57:11 GMT -5
The truth is in one offseason JT3 & staff molded a core of Bowman, Cook, Owens, Green & Wallace into a pretty solid group, I think it's fair to say that Hoya fans knew that he was onto something almost right away. Just as important as his first class was the fact that he retained Bowman who was not happy... kudos where due...
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Jan 10, 2019 21:00:40 GMT -5
Ironically, I think JT3 might be quite good as an NBA Coach. His system in college relied on accumulating 2/3 kinds of kids who were 6-9 with soft touch and handles - the best of those are top-15 recruits, not typically GU kids. Jeff Green and Otto P don’t fall into your lap every season. JT3 could never handle big egos and leaders. The NBA is full of those...
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Post by bornhoya on Jan 10, 2019 22:03:06 GMT -5
Apologies for changing the subject from the Tremont Waters soap opera ( personally, long term, I’ll take James) but I have a question re Patrick’s coaching. I am a big fan of Pat- always have been- and I love his players ( e.g. Akingo, MAC, Josh, Malinowski, and don’t shoot the deep three first time you touch the ball Carter). My question is: does he have a talented enough support staff ( asst. coaches)? It looks to me like the players like and respect their head coach, but he is a first time college coach. He needs help. In the opinion of those reading this: does he have it? He has guys who have coached in multiple places but, are they familiar with the system is my question. I'm a huge fan of the system, I love an up-tempo style of play, fits the modern game and gets easier shots. The key to having a good up-tempo style is a good defense. By defending and closing possessions, this team is capable of scoring off of misses. There needs to be a solid defensive system to fit the play style and I haven't seen that yet. Hopefully one of the guys on the staff can scheme up a good defense before it's too late on this season. That’s the problem I think everything falls on Ewing defense sets offense sets recruiting. I know Orr recruits a little but it doesn’t seems like the other assistants do much
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 10, 2019 23:05:44 GMT -5
Technically, JT3's 1st class was Green, Hibbert, Guibunda & Wallace of that group only Green came in with any fan fair... His 2nd class was the Thornton, Egerson, Spann & Sapp crew... Also, Gtown landed Summers, Macklin & Rivers before the 2005-06 season began so it was their performance in year one that helped land Summers, mack & Rivers not the sweet 16 run... The truth is in one offseason JT3 & staff molded a core of Bowman, Cook, Owens, Green & Wallace into a pretty solid group, I think it's fair to say that Hoya fans knew that he was onto something almost right away. Yes, JT3 walked into a better situation and achieved exponentially more with what he “was left” right out of the gate. I’m actually still shocked at JT3’s regression as a coach. I guess he put all his eggs in the basket of high-post trigger offense predicated on skill over athleticism and at the expense of recruiting high-end guards. That strategic choice killed him. The college game was, is and will always be guard-centric. Ironically, I think JT3 might be quite good as an NBA Coach. His system in college relied on accumulating 2/3 kinds of kids who were 6-9 with soft touch and handles - the best of those are top-15 recruits, not typically GU kids. Jeff Green and Otto P don’t fall into your lap every season. I guess you could say JT3 walked into a better situation but he also started in a much tougher conference. Bottom line to me is JT3 and his staff immediately put their stamp on the program both on the court and off it and a lot of that momentum was fueled by how well players developed under them... PE has been somewhat slow out of the gate in building momentum/enthusiasm for the program both on & off the court imho...
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gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 831
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Post by gujake on Jan 10, 2019 23:32:24 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 11, 2019 7:58:38 GMT -5
Esh delivered Green and Hibbert. 😋 Full cupboard!
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,398
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 11, 2019 8:04:09 GMT -5
Esh delivered Green and Hibbert. 😋 Full cupboard! You're batting 50% on that one!! But you gotta give JT III and staff credit for Hibbert's development.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 11, 2019 8:30:36 GMT -5
I thought the team came out very well prepared against Xavier...unfortunately the Hoyas could not sustain it and shots did not fall in the second half. But I was extremely pleased with the coaching staff for getting them ready.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 11, 2019 8:31:06 GMT -5
Esh delivered Green and Hibbert. 😋 Full cupboard! You're batting 50% on that one!! But you gotta give JT III and staff credit for Hibbert's development. Shouldn’t JT3 & staff get credit for Green’s development too?
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,398
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 11, 2019 8:33:34 GMT -5
You're batting 50% on that one!! But you gotta give JT III and staff credit for Hibbert's development. Shouldn’t JT3 & staff get credit for Green’s development too? Yes, that's also true but at least Jeff Green's development started at a higher baseline than Roy Hibbert's, but a very fair point.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 11, 2019 8:41:27 GMT -5
Shouldn’t JT3 & staff get credit for Green’s development too? Yes, that's also true but at least Jeff Green's development started at a higher baseline than Roy Hibbert's, but a very fair point. Agreed. To me if a player has one coach in his college career then that coach should get all the credit(or blame) for the players development. If Walker had turned into a productive player @ Gtown the credit should have gone to the current staff only...
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,398
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 11, 2019 8:49:49 GMT -5
Yes, that's also true but at least Jeff Green's development started at a higher baseline than Roy Hibbert's, but a very fair point. Agreed. To me if a player has one coach in his college career then that coach should get all the credit(or blame) for the players development. If Walker had turned into a productive player @ Gtown the credit should have gone to the current staff only... I always thought that DaJuan Summers should have been in the league but I may have been fooled by his physique which suggested that he should have stuck. I think he lasted a couple of years with the Pistons, IIRC?
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 11, 2019 8:55:12 GMT -5
Technically, JT3's 1st class was Green, Hibbert, Guibunda & Wallace of that group only Green came in with any fan fair... His 2nd class was the Thornton, Egerson, Spann & Sapp crew... Also, Gtown landed Summers, Macklin & Rivers before the 2005-06 season began so it was their performance in year one that helped land Summers, mack & Rivers not the sweet 16 run... The truth is in one offseason JT3 & staff molded a core of Bowman, Cook, Owens, Green & Wallace into a pretty solid group, I think it's fair to say that Hoya fans knew that he was onto something almost right away. Yes, JT3 walked into a better situation and achieved exponentially more with what he “was left” right out of the gate. I’m actually still shocked at JT3’s regression as a coach. I guess he put all his eggs in the basket of high-post trigger offense predicated on skill over athleticism and at the expense of recruiting high-end guards. That strategic choice killed him. The college game was, is and will always be guard-centric. Ironically, I think JT3 might be quite good as an NBA Coach. His system in college relied on accumulating 2/3 kinds of kids who were 6-9 with soft touch and handles - the best of those are top-15 recruits, not typically GU kids. Jeff Green and Otto P don’t fall into your lap every season. I still say that 2 occurances that were beyond III's control killed his GTown coaching career: 1.) Austin's diagnosis and 2.) Tyler's heart condition..... If Austin was health that's a final 4 team and maybe more considering the two teams that played for the championship that year. And can you imagine Otto's team with Tyler in the middle? We would have avoided FGCU by being #1 or #2 seed....That would be 3 deep tourney runs in less than 10yrs....I know these are hypotheticals but Austin's team was humming before he got sick and Otto's team hummed all year until FGCU....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 9:02:20 GMT -5
We would have avoided FGCU by being #1 or #2 seed.... We were a 2 seed.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 11, 2019 10:35:41 GMT -5
Lol, I thought we were a #3....then a #1 seed....
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
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Post by vv83 on Jan 11, 2019 10:53:51 GMT -5
Yes, JT3 walked into a better situation and achieved exponentially more with what he “was left” right out of the gate. I’m actually still shocked at JT3’s regression as a coach. I guess he put all his eggs in the basket of high-post trigger offense predicated on skill over athleticism and at the expense of recruiting high-end guards. That strategic choice killed him. The college game was, is and will always be guard-centric. Ironically, I think JT3 might be quite good as an NBA Coach. His system in college relied on accumulating 2/3 kinds of kids who were 6-9 with soft touch and handles - the best of those are top-15 recruits, not typically GU kids. Jeff Green and Otto P don’t fall into your lap every season. I still say that 2 occurances that were beyond III's control killed his GTown coaching career: 1.) Austin's diagnosis and 2.) Tyler's heart condition..... If Austin was health that's a final 4 team and maybe more considering the two teams that played for the championship that year. And can you imagine Otto's team with Tyler in the middle? We would have avoided FGCU by being #1 or #2 seed....That would be 3 deep tourney runs in less than 10yrs....I know these are hypotheticals but Austin's team was humming before he got sick and Otto's team hummed all year until FGCU.... Chris Wright's broken hand did not help either. The 2011 squad was not as talented as 2010, 2012, or 2013. But we were playing really well when we got hurt, and could well have been a 3 seed. We ended up a 6 and drew VCU in their Final 4 run year. That team was a potential second weekend team with a healthy wright. Starks as a frosh was nowhere near ready to fill in for Wright, and we fell apart without him. Another sweet 16 team that year could certainly have helped extend JTIII's career.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 11, 2019 11:06:43 GMT -5
He has guys who have coached in multiple places but, are they familiar with the system is my question. I'm a huge fan of the system, I love an up-tempo style of play, fits the modern game and gets easier shots. The key to having a good up-tempo style is a good defense. By defending and closing possessions, this team is capable of scoring off of misses. There needs to be a solid defensive system to fit the play style and I haven't seen that yet. Hopefully one of the guys on the staff can scheme up a good defense before it's too late on this season. That’s the problem I think everything falls on Ewing defense sets offense sets recruiting. I know Orr recruits a little but it doesn’t seems like the other assistants do much Kirby is actually a well respected recruiter, and I think most people were/are fairly ecstatic about that hire (he recruited Otto and I believe he was the lead for Akinjo, LeBlanc, and Carter). Waheed is the local DC area recruiter. Not sure who has what responsibilities with the team/practice/game plan/etc.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 11, 2019 11:16:58 GMT -5
It helps to recruit self-motivated players that live in the gym.
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