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Post by fivehoyas on Jan 29, 2020 0:02:39 GMT -5
Would be awesome if someone could point out a thing or two that has improved since Ewing took over
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 29, 2020 0:11:04 GMT -5
Games where we clearly don’t have the talent to compete are one thing but these close losses where we the game was there for the taking is what’s most frustrating. There’s a lot of chance to basketball for sure, but at some point you’ve got to be able to get it done.
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Post by wponds on Jan 29, 2020 8:25:08 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 29, 2020 8:32:25 GMT -5
We can debate Ewing’s coaching ability all we want, but the hard reality is he is more than likely going to be our coach for as long as he Casual Hoya wants him to be. I fixed it for you. I think people thinking that Ewing is ensconced in this position for 6-7 years forget how quickly public sentiment can change and how it can reach a tipping point that even a supportive administration needs to respond to.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 29, 2020 8:43:12 GMT -5
If the admin isn’t willing to admit a mistake and move quickly from this mess, GU basketball is doomed.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 29, 2020 9:07:29 GMT -5
If the admin isn’t willing to admit a mistake and move quickly from this mess, GU basketball is doomed. Ewing's contract becomes an interesting decision point in the near future. I'm going to assume Ewing got a 5 year deal. If he doesn't have an extension in year 4, it's going to get harder and harder to recruit. So we'll either have to bite the bullet and give him a 2 year extension (at presumably less money?) or maybe Ewing chooses to resign if he doesn't get a new deal because he knows it's over. I really think that was what lead Mullin and St. Johns to go separate ways. The AD didn't want to give him an extension, his top assistant coach (who was spearheading recruiting) left, and he realized it was going to end badly so they agreed to part ways. Now that was a different AD than the one who hired Mullin, we still have Lee Reed so maybe he won't admit defeat. But if Ewing doesn't get an extension this offseason (and to be clear he hasn't really earned one) we'll start to get a few clues
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theboardkatt
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Post by theboardkatt on Jan 29, 2020 9:23:10 GMT -5
Who know what will happen, but I don't see the administration abandoning him just yet, or doing anything to hurt his recruiting going forward. He needs the best opportunity to recruit effectively in the near future - I think that comes from giving him a 1 or 2 year extension at the end of this season - making his term 5 or 6 years. His first stint as a head coach is turning out to be a complete swing and miss, and I consider that these first 3 years. He shouldve learned a few more tricks in year 1 when there were no expectations with that roster as far as Xs and Os, zone defense, clock management, switching vs staying on screeners, changing looks on timeouts(which until last night only recall seeing a couple times).
I hope he has learned some valuable lessons from a personnel standpoint. In hindsight, AKinjo and Mcclung never worked together. Sure we got by last year but I still feel the disaster of the transfers was avoidable. I was surprised they were both starting next to each other most of last season - since they clearly didn't like each other and had similar skillsets and defensive issues. The punishments on LeBlanc followed by sub 10 min per game playing time was clearly the wrong avenue in that situation.
And here we are.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 29, 2020 9:23:19 GMT -5
I doubt Lee Reed had much to do with this hire and I doubt he’ll have much to do with the eventual firing
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 29, 2020 9:29:40 GMT -5
I fixed it for you. I think people thinking that Ewing is ensconced in this position for 6-7 years forget how quickly public sentiment can change and how it can reach a tipping point that even a supportive administration needs to respond to. Again, I’d say that would be true. For anyone but Ewing at Georgetown. Big John The Dictator likely knew this when he shoehorned Ewing into this position. Firing Ewing IMO is not an option absent some horrible scandal. Now he may walk away in frustration at some point, but otherwise he’s here as long as he wants to be. Not sure what your Casual Hoya reference means. Four years ago I said the same things you just said about JT3, and he made a Final Four, never had four players leave midseason and play in the midst of pretty public disciplinary issues, and was the son of Big John. I was totally wrong and the idea that there's this adamantium firewall of support just isn't true. Coaches have to win.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 29, 2020 9:39:32 GMT -5
Maybe this is goodbye. But there are some sad deleteds on this board. In time; maybe you'll find a coach and roster of players to please you but I don't think so. Are you fans? I think not! Your expectations in the face of reality are unreasonable! I love Gtown.basketball and things are hard now!!! But you moaners and anti-Ewing posters are the worst!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 29, 2020 10:01:56 GMT -5
Maybe this is goodbye. But there are some sad deleted on this board. In time; maybe you'll find a coach and roster of players to please you but I don't think so. Are you fans? I think not! Your expectations in the face of reality are unreasonable! I love Gtown.basketball and things are hard now!!! But you moaners and anti-Ewing posters are the worst! I really want Patrick Ewing to succeed for many of the reasons mentioned above (notably, that firing your biggest Georgetown hero would be terrible), but the fact is he's been the coach for 3 years at this point, this year will likely be worse than last year, and next year isn't looking to be much better. I think it would be hard for even the most vehement Ewing supporters to make a strong argument in favor of his coaching at this point. And I agree with TC. While it might seen now like a change would be impossible, ending the season at something like 4-14 and repeating something similar next year would drastically change where we are now. Sure, Ewing is a bigger figure than JT3 was, but JT3 also had a lot more success, and they fired him anyway. I would add that the JT3 move seems to have happened because of people on the Board, as DeGioia's statements even at the end could be read as supportive of JT3. Also important - I have no confidence in the administration to make good decisions when it comes to hiring, given the charade that they put in place last time.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 29, 2020 10:04:09 GMT -5
Four years ago I said the same things you just said about JT3, and he made a Final Four, never had four players leave midseason and play in the midst of pretty public disciplinary issues, and was the son of Big John. I was totally wrong and the idea that there's this adamantium firewall of support just isn't true. Coaches have to win. I get what you're saying, but we were in year, what, 12 of JT3? And in all fairness, JT3 simply doesn't hold the status of Patrick Ewing at Georgetown. I'm not sure what that means, but no one under the age of 50 cares at all about 1984 - the fact that he was in Space Jam is more relevant. Mullin got four years at his alma mater. Drexler got two. This is not a different situation. If anything, my sense is that if it gets to it, moving on from Ewing would be a lot easier than moving on from Esherick or JT3. JT2 is a lot less visible than he was then and Esherick and JT3 showed they could make the tournament.
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Post by westendhoya on Jan 29, 2020 10:11:44 GMT -5
Problem is the program has become irrelevant and the fanbase apathetic. We are charting a course for a hole that may become too big to ever dig out of. Barring a complete fluke, we will have gone 15 years without a Sweet 16. Let that sink in.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 29, 2020 10:14:41 GMT -5
Pat got us the personnel we needed to win in three recruiting cycles. Losing four key players killed us. Not sure it’s all on Pat, but he needs to quickly right the ship. As of now, it looks like we will be at the bottom of the league again next year. We don’t have the talent right now to compete in the league.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 29, 2020 10:20:29 GMT -5
Maybe this is goodbye. But there are some sad deleted on this board. In time; maybe you'll find a coach and roster of players to please you but I don't think so. Are you fans? I think not! Your expectations in the face of reality are unreasonable! I love Gtown.basketball and things are hard now!!! But you moaners and anti-Ewing posters are the worst! I really want Patrick Ewing to succeed for many of the reasons mentioned above (notably, that firing your biggest Georgetown hero would be terrible), but the fact is he's been the coach for 3 years at this point, this year will likely be worse than last year, and next year isn't looking to be much better. I think it would be hard for even the most vehement Ewing supporters to make a strong argument in favor of his coaching at this point. And I agree with TC. While it might seen now like a change would be impossible, ending the season at something like 4-14 and repeating something similar next year would drastically change where we are now. Sure, Ewing is a bigger figure than JT3 was, but JT3 also had a lot more success, and they fired him anyway. I would add that the JT3 move seems to have happened because of people on the Board, as DeGioia's statements even at the end could be read as supportive of JT3. Also important - I have no confidence in the administration to make good decisions when it comes to hiring, given the charade that they put in place last time. Looks like you edited/added to this post. Responding to your additions, I think two such seasons (back-to-back 4-14 league records) would certainly have Ewing considering other options and seeking a graceful exit. Again, my main point is that he will be gone when he wants to be.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 29, 2020 10:23:24 GMT -5
I still think it is too soon to evaluate Ewing's tenure as a coach. Yes this is year three but you have to throw out year one since he inherited a true disaster and did not have the lead time to recruit out of it. I see last year as his first year and at 9-9 and an NIT invite you can say he made progress. That brings us to this year. Forget the x's and o's, the transfers pretty well limited his ability to show what he can do as a coach. When you have to bring in Muresan to replace Pickett it shows that the cupboard is empty. But it does raise the even more important question as to Ewing's recruiting ability. How do the loses of so many players over the past 3 years reflect a fundamental flaw in Ewing's player evaluation/judgement? I think this will be the issue that eventually drives Patrick off the hilltop.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 29, 2020 10:25:41 GMT -5
We can debate Ewing’s coaching ability all we want, but the hard reality is he is more than likely going to be our coach for as long as he Casual Hoya wants him to be. I fixed it for you. I think people thinking that Ewing is ensconced in this position for 6-7 years forget how quickly public sentiment can change and how it can reach a tipping point that even a supportive administration needs to respond to.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 29, 2020 10:31:09 GMT -5
I still think it is too soon to evaluate Ewing's tenure as a coach. Yes this is year three but you have to throw out year one since he inherited a true disaster and did not have the lead time to recruit out of it. I see last year as his first year and at 9-9 and an NIT invite you can say he made progress. That brings us to this year. Forget the x's and o's, the transfers pretty well limited his ability to show what he can do as a coach. When you have to bring in Muresan to replace Pickett it shows that the cupboard is empty. But it does raise the even more important question as to Ewing's recruiting ability. How do the loses of so many players over the past 3 years reflect a fundamental flaw in Ewing's player evaluation/judgement? I think this will be the issue that eventually drives Patrick off the hilltop. I think he rushed the process of rebuilding - should have recruited more carefully, but getting us out of the smoldering heap of the last few JT3 years required drastic actions. So he took a chance on a bunch of late and decomitted signees, and that has unfortunately become his M.O., recruiting-wise. Real time, it was hard to argue against - these were very good players. But building a solid program takes time, and recruiting the right types of players for your system takes time and patience. Neither of which he allowed himself when filling out the roster. Frankly, I'm somewhat impressed that at this stage of things he and the staff are still pulling in quality recruits. Hopefully, having the time to spend evaluating the incoming talent, both on and off the court, will avoid the personnel issues that have plagued his time here.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 29, 2020 10:38:32 GMT -5
I fixed it for you. I think people thinking that Ewing is ensconced in this position for 6-7 years forget how quickly public sentiment can change and how it can reach a tipping point that even a supportive administration needs to respond to. This is a joke. Casual may say this now, but he certainly felt differently about players a few years ago, when he blamed the coach for much the same. For the record, I am not advocating a coaching change at the moment. The season isn't even over. All I know is that the current course isn't getting us to where we want to be (the tournament), so something needs to change. That doesn't necessarily need to be the coach, though.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 29, 2020 10:44:03 GMT -5
I fixed it for you. I think people thinking that Ewing is ensconced in this position for 6-7 years forget how quickly public sentiment can change and how it can reach a tipping point that even a supportive administration needs to respond to. I am not sure I would question the heart of the current players on the team, I think they all play very hard, but I would agree that the program lost the guys who played with an edge and some grit. Other than Jagan, who has some of that in his game, I would not classify the rest of the guys as the "junk yard dog" type of players, and that is OK because every team needs a mix of different types of players, but when you lose this many types of players suddenly it does change the team dynamic.
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