guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Mar 28, 2020 11:20:46 GMT -5
Hindsight 20/20, though it would have been painful at the time, we would have been best off if JT Jr. had jumped to the pros when he had his serious offer (I think Golden State, in the early 90s?). Instead, the school convinced him to stay by essentially making him a lifetime employee. 30 years later, we're still paying for it, literally and figuratively. The history/culture he helped to create is the only think keeping us afloat....it was much more than about just wins and losses in the 80s... Understand this mode of thinking, and believe me I was there when Thompson made us the best program in the country. But that was such a long time ago, and it's not keeping us afloat any longer.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 28, 2020 11:43:16 GMT -5
The history/culture he helped to create is the only think keeping us afloat....it was much more than about just wins and losses in the 80s... Understand this mode of thinking, and believe me I was there when Thompson made us the best program in the country. But that was such a long time ago, and it's not keeping us afloat any longer. Yet it is. Things could be worse. We just need a talent influx, we have a solid foundation. Many programs are reliant on talent alone. Of course the goal at the end of the day is to win, but it’s not like Thompson being familiar with people around the program is what’s holding us back. Even if that well has run dry and isn’t a huge selling point anymore, that’s a far cry from JT2 currently being an obstacle to our success. Freedom of movement rule changes combined with an incredibly stubborn coach who refused to adapt (and I was/am still a supporter of his) are what put us in this deep hole (along with a few bare/empty recruiting classes) and I don’t think a lot of people have realized quite how much ground we’ve had to make up. Add that we’re in a new BE and that elevated our peers’ recruiting profile the pool just keeps getting smaller and smaller. As bad as things have gotten, Georgetown is still a brand and that (coupled with Ewing’s status) at the very least gets us the foot in the door with many recruits and that’s half the battle. This rebuild was never going to be easy and up until 6 months ago was actually ahead of schedule. What made/makes Ewing successful in life is not his talent, but rather his work ethic and competitiveness. Of course you need several other ingredients to have success in today’s college basketball world, but I have faith in him to guide us back in the right direction. A few pieces here and there and we’ll be in good shape. And I think a lot of people are really sleeping on this year’s incoming class. Now we just gotta go out there and put it all together - and that includes healthy fan support. It’s cool to “call it as it is” and all but hopefully we can get back to a place where commentary like some of the type that happens on this board isn’t making the staff’s job harder. And as much as some of the guilty parties would like to think otherwise, Georgetown fans are worst than a lot of other schools’ fans in this respect (for several reasons) and the overall fan commentary isn’t as balanced it can be. Yeah all those other state schools like LSU, UGA, and the Ole Miss’ of the world are locking down top players by bending the rules, but those schools also have humongous fan bases where there is a big enough volume of positive voices to cut through the negativity in a way that smaller, private schools with smaller followings don’t. There just isn’t as much fan enthusiasm (for all sports) at Georgetown as there is at many other schools. There are several reasons for that, but it isn’t all doom and gloom.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 28, 2020 12:10:30 GMT -5
Love the’20 class, so far. ‘21 class is critical. We could regain lost momentum. Lost seasons are what weigh on me. No top conference finish, no BE tournament run and no NCAA. Games that matter.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 28, 2020 12:18:04 GMT -5
Love the’20 class, so far. ‘21 class is critical. We could regain lost momentum. Lost seasons are what weigh on me. No top conference finish, no BE tournament run and no NCAA. Games that matter. Fair, but we can’t change the past. We can only focus on the here and now and the future. Bringing up the past too often can distract from the things going on in the present. Only way out is to win. Ewing just needs to find more players who are willing to sacrifice more of their personal interests for the interests of the team. The two are not mutually exclusive and he needs to be drilling that into all incoming players.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Mar 28, 2020 13:23:52 GMT -5
Understand this mode of thinking, and believe me I was there when Thompson made us the best program in the country. But that was such a long time ago, and it's not keeping us afloat any longer. Yet it is. Things could be worse. We just need a talent influx, we have a solid foundation. Many programs are reliant on talent alone. Of course the goal at the end of the day is to win, but it’s not like Thompson being familiar with people around the program is what’s holding us back. Even if that well has run dry and isn’t a huge selling point anymore, that’s a far cry from JT2 currently being an obstacle to our success. Freedom of movement rule changes combined with an incredibly stubborn coach who refused to adapt (and I was/am still a supporter of his) are what put us in this deep hole (along with a few bare/empty recruiting classes) and I don’t think a lot of people have realized quite how much ground we’ve had to make up. Add that we’re in a new BE and that elevated our peers’ recruiting profile the pool just keeps getting smaller and smaller. As bad as things have gotten, Georgetown is still a brand and that (coupled with Ewing’s status) at the very least gets us the foot in the door with many recruits and that’s half the battle. This rebuild was never going to be easy and up until 6 months ago was actually ahead of schedule. What made/makes Ewing successful in life is not his talent, but rather his work ethic and competitiveness. Of course you need several other ingredients to have success in today’s college basketball world, but I have faith in him to guide us back in the right direction. A few pieces here and there and we’ll be in good shape. And I think a lot of people are really sleeping on this year’s incoming class. Now we just gotta go out there and put it all together - and that includes healthy fan support. It’s cool to “call it as it is” and all but hopefully we can get back to a place where commentary like some of the type that happens on this board isn’t making the staff’s job harder. And as much as some of the guilty parties would like to think otherwise, Georgetown fans are worst than a lot of other schools’ fans in this respect (for several reasons) and the overall fan commentary isn’t as balanced it can be. Yeah all those other state schools like LSU, UGA, and the Ole Miss’ of the world are locking down top players by bending the rules, but those schools also have humongous fan bases where there is a big enough volume of positive voices to cut through the negativity in a way that smaller, private schools with smaller followings don’t. There just isn’t as much fan enthusiasm (for all sports) at Georgetown as there is at many other schools. There are several reasons for that, but it isn’t all doom and gloom. I just have a fundamental disagreement with the foundation of your stance: We don’t have a relevant brand anymore. Our brand is irrelevance.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 28, 2020 13:25:21 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 31, 2020 19:26:32 GMT -5
If we finish between 9-11 place next year in the BE, what then? Will changes be made or do we come to finally accept our participation trophy going forward?
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2020 19:40:15 GMT -5
If we finish between 9-11 place next year in the BE, what then? Will changes be made or do we come to finally accept our participation trophy going forward? Would you like to offer up solutions or are one of those people who only complains and complains and creates more problems in this world?
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 31, 2020 20:22:16 GMT -5
The coach making in excess of $2 million per year, assistant coaches making multiple six figures and a program that ranks in top 10-15 in monies is responsible for the solutions.
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rlo24
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 337
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Post by rlo24 on Mar 31, 2020 20:30:36 GMT -5
The coach making in excess of $2 million per year, assistant coaches making multiple six figures and a program that ranks in top 10-15 in monies is responsible for the solutions. Where do you get the MBB financials from? I'd be curious get the link and see the last 5 years. Revenue/Expenses..ticket sales and merchandise
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rlo24
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 337
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Post by rlo24 on Mar 31, 2020 20:31:33 GMT -5
If we finish between 9-11 place next year in the BE, what then? Will changes be made or do we come to finally accept our participation trophy going forward? Would you like to offer up solutions or are one of those people who only complains and complains and creates more problems in this world? Hire Steve Forbes away from East Tennessee State is a REALLY quick solution..
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2020 20:34:08 GMT -5
The coach making in excess of $2 million per year, assistant coaches making multiple six figures and a program that ranks in top 10-15 in monies is responsible for the solutions. Okay then maybe some people should stop the incessant whining and have some patience and wait to see what happens.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2020 23:14:14 GMT -5
If we finish between 9-11 place next year in the BE, what then? Will changes be made or do we come to finally accept our participation trophy going forward? If we finish between 1-3 next year in the BE, what then? Will Patrick get an extension if we win a trophy? Hey this "speculation about what might happen before we even know our full roster much less bounce a single basketball" game is fun!
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 31, 2020 23:53:20 GMT -5
If we finish between 9-11 place next year in the BE, what then? Will changes be made or do we come to finally accept our participation trophy going forward? If we finish between 1-3 next year in the BE, what the? Will Patrick get an extension of we win a trophy? Hey this "speculation about what might happen before we even know our full roster much less bounce a single basketball" game is fun! Shelter-in-place has got me down, I guess. 😉 Very excited about the ‘20 class and hope to build with ‘21.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 1, 2020 12:51:10 GMT -5
If we finish between 9-11 place next year in the BE, what then? Will changes be made or do we come to finally accept our participation trophy going forward? If we finish between 1-3 next year in the BE, what then? Will Patrick get an extension if we win a trophy? Hey this "speculation about what might happen before we even know our full roster much less bounce a single basketball" game is fun! (1) If we finish in the top 3, then obviously Ewing will get an extension and not go anywhere anytime soon. (2) If we finish at something like 6-14 or worse, I think the coaching seat should, at minimum, be very hot. (3) If we finish in the middling 9-11 to 10-10 range, then ? All of this being said, the odds of #1 happening are extremely low given our current roster and the makeup of the other teams. #2 or #3 are way more likely in the range of outcomes (unfortunately).
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 1, 2020 13:21:49 GMT -5
If we finish between 1-3 next year in the BE, what then? Will Patrick get an extension if we win a trophy? Hey this "speculation about what might happen before we even know our full roster much less bounce a single basketball" game is fun! (1) If we finish in the top 3, then obviously Ewing will get an extension and not go anywhere anytime soon. (2) If we finish at something like 6-14 or worse, I think the coaching seat should, at minimum, be very hot. (3) If we finish in the middling 9-11 to 10-10 range, then ? All of this being said, the odds of #1 happening are extremely low given our current roster and the makeup of the other teams. #2 or #3 are way more likely in the range of outcomes (unfortunately). But there is zero reason to be speculating about any of this. Maybe we wait until we play a game or two and get at least some sliver of snow idea of what we have.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Apr 1, 2020 14:09:19 GMT -5
Whether Patrick was your first choice, your last choice or worst choice for the head coaching job, once he was selected for the position, this became more than a quick look. He's learning to be a head coach for the first time, learning the recruiting game, learning to manage college men at his alma mater, no less. I see someone who cares a lot and isn't just cashing a check. I will give him a longer leash. I like the way the team responded to him and played its heart out. I think he learns more on what type of player fits the school and the program. I thought he got better as a coach, but admit that I didn't like him riding Yurt so long in the last game despite the long layoff. Perhaps, he felt he owed Yurt that. I think he learns from it. Me, I'm a Hoya Forever. I support Patrick and will continue to do so because I do think he can get this done. Having just caught some of the HBO special on Christian Dawkins; I'm grateful we don't have Will Wade and Sean Miller and shocked that they still can have jobs. I don't want to win that way.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,777
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 1, 2020 14:53:49 GMT -5
Having just caught some of the HBO special on Christian Dawkins; I'm grateful we don't have Will Wade and Sean Miller and shocked that they still can have jobs. I don't want to win that way. In many cases, it's less about the coach and more about the employer. Sean Miller had no major problems at Xavier. Why? In part, because Xavier set higher standards and Miller was smart enough to follow them. Arizona doesn't hold coaches to the same standard, so Miller knows he won't be held as accountable.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 1, 2020 15:21:01 GMT -5
(1) If we finish in the top 3, then obviously Ewing will get an extension and not go anywhere anytime soon. (2) If we finish at something like 6-14 or worse, I think the coaching seat should, at minimum, be very hot. (3) If we finish in the middling 9-11 to 10-10 range, then ? All of this being said, the odds of #1 happening are extremely low given our current roster and the makeup of the other teams. #2 or #3 are way more likely in the range of outcomes (unfortunately). But there is zero reason to be speculating about any of this. Maybe we wait until we play a game or two and get at least some sliver of snow idea of what we have. I agree it's pointless to speculate, but I think that's by nature what happens every office season when there are 7+ months to go until we have any concrete games (other than Kenner). I, for one, truly hope we get that first outcome. For everybody's sake--the university, Ewing, coaches, players, staff, fans--we really need to get back into contention as a top Big East program.
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Post by bigelephant on Apr 1, 2020 15:32:09 GMT -5
"I agree it's pointless to speculate, but I think that's by nature what happens every office season when there are 7+ months to go until we have any concrete games (other than Kenner). I, for one, truly hope we get that first outcome. For everybody's sake--the university, Ewing, coaches, players, staff, fans--we really need to get back into contention as a top Big East program"
Well said. I may be dreaming buy I think Mac comes back and maybe even Yurt7
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