BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
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Post by BigmanU on Apr 12, 2017 13:01:52 GMT -5
So much for tweets having no effect on a recruit's thinking about a program... Was it the tweets or the actual facts? I mean, maybe this is too philosophical, but what worried him--the fact that people were tweeting about firing JTIII or the underlying likelihood that JTIII was going to get fired? I'm going to guess where one comes down on that distinction is strongly correlated with whether you think JTIII should've been fired. But whatever, great news. If we can get Tremont back on board and hire a couple of non-Ronny Thompson assistants, it'll be the best April for Hoya fans since 2007. He mentioned tweets & rumors at the start of the season. The groundswell from the national media was after the St John's & DePaul losses.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 12, 2017 13:18:28 GMT -5
So much for tweets having no effect on a recruit's thinking about a program... Was it the tweets or the actual facts? I mean, maybe this is too philosophical, but what worried him--the fact that people were tweeting about firing JTIII or the underlying likelihood that JTIII was going to get fired? I'm going to guess where one comes down on that distinction is strongly correlated with whether you think JTIII should've been fired. But whatever, great news. If we can get Tremont back on board and hire a couple of non-Ronny Thompson assistants, it'll be the best April for Hoya fans since 2007. I think it's a combination, of course. But people were calling for JT3's head at the beginning of the season and into November and December, when it was far from clear that the season would end as badly as it did. A lot of folks derided me for saying that articles/tweets likely had an impact, and lo and behold, they did.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 12, 2017 13:18:44 GMT -5
Was it the tweets or the actual facts? I mean, maybe this is too philosophical, but what worried him--the fact that people were tweeting about firing JTIII or the underlying likelihood that JTIII was going to get fired? I'm going to guess where one comes down on that distinction is strongly correlated with whether you think JTIII should've been fired. But whatever, great news. If we can get Tremont back on board and hire a couple of non-Ronny Thompson assistants, it'll be the best April for Hoya fans since 2007. He mentioned tweets & rumors at the start of the season. The groundswell from the national media was after the St John's & DePaul losses. And so was his decommitment. But I would add there was non-national media (i.e., Casual) that was clearly against JT3 well before those losses. My hope is that he hasn't been so disgusted by the program and what happened with JT3 that he just wants to get a fresh start somewhere else.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Apr 12, 2017 13:21:25 GMT -5
Can't blame the kid for not wanting to enter into an unstable situation with JT3. As long as Patrick has convinced him the situation is now stable and moving in the right direction, all the other stuff that attracted him to Georgetown is still in place. Would be a great first step for Coach Ewing!! Well, not everything, with Peak leaving. But if we could add a piece or two for next year, and a bona fide guard-grooming assistant (maybe retain Solomon), I'd think we would be at least as attractive (if not more) as when he committed.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
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Post by chep3 on Apr 12, 2017 13:26:08 GMT -5
Was it the tweets or the actual facts? I mean, maybe this is too philosophical, but what worried him--the fact that people were tweeting about firing JTIII or the underlying likelihood that JTIII was going to get fired? I'm going to guess where one comes down on that distinction is strongly correlated with whether you think JTIII should've been fired. But whatever, great news. If we can get Tremont back on board and hire a couple of non-Ronny Thompson assistants, it'll be the best April for Hoya fans since 2007. He mentioned tweets & rumors at the start of the season. The groundswell from the national media was after the St John's & DePaul losses. Right, but was the harm caused by the tweets (e.g., a sentiment that the fanbase was full of jerks) or the concern that he wouldn't know who his coach for his full tenure at GU? I mean, obviously the tweets had some underlying veracity to them and clearly reflected instability with JTIII's job depending on how this year went. If, say hypothetically, NY Times and Washington Post stories make me worry about the ethics and stability of the President, it isn't really the "stories" that caused my concern--it's the underlying lack of ethics and stability of the President. If the latter is the more accurate characterization of what bothered Tremont over the past few months, the underlying cause of his concern was our poor performance this year, without which JTIII wouldn't have ever been fired. I suppose the counterargument is that the fanbase could've been quiet and not agitated for a change and then Tremont would've come no matter what because things would've been stable, but frankly, that's unrealistic and I don't know of any sports fanbases (generally not the most low key and patient people in the world) who wouldn't have been upset. Eh, this is probably too tangential anyways and risks digging up arguments that should be buried since we've all moved on now. Let's hope he reups soon.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Apr 12, 2017 13:27:16 GMT -5
How can you blame the kid for wondering if the coach he committed to would get fired when that is exactly what happened?
One thing on which we can be certain: Patrick Ewing will not be fired in the next 4 years.
Sounds like problem solved.
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BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
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Post by BigmanU on Apr 12, 2017 13:29:17 GMT -5
Can't blame the kid for not wanting to enter into an unstable situation with JT3. As long as Patrick has convinced him the situation is now stable and moving in the right direction, all the other stuff that attracted him to Georgetown is still in place. Would be a great first step for Coach Ewing!! Well, not everything, with Peak leaving. But if we could add a piece or two for next year, and a bona fide guard-grooming assistant (maybe retain Solomon), I'd think we would be at least as attractive (if not more) as when he committed. One thing he probably wouldn't have been next year with Peak retuning is the leader of the team. Next year, not only would he get the ball in his hands from Day 1, he would be the leader from Day 1
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,040
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 12, 2017 13:31:29 GMT -5
I think the members of the Georgetown basketball fan community need to understand that what we say on message boards and in social media do not happen in a vacuum. On occasion, there are consequences.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Apr 12, 2017 14:25:02 GMT -5
Well, not everything, with Peak leaving. But if we could add a piece or two for next year, and a bona fide guard-grooming assistant (maybe retain Solomon), I'd think we would be at least as attractive (if not more) as when he committed. One thing he probably wouldn't have been next year with Peak retuning is the leader of the team. Next year, not only would he get the ball in his hands from Day 1, he would be the leader from Day 1 Man, how nice would it be if Ewing could convince Peak to stay, land Waters, and get a couple good transfers. We would be dancing.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 12, 2017 14:38:33 GMT -5
I think the members of the Georgetown basketball fan community need to understand that what we say on message boards and in social media do not happen in a vacuum. On occasion, there are consequences. And I know people say things like "it's just a message board" or "it's just a fan site" but both are the major sources of information on the program. On a daily basis, there really is no Georgetown coverage anywhere else aside from occasional articles on major events (like Ewing's hire) or games. So it matters a lot. I also think social media and message boards were responsible for making the program look a lot worse than it actually was (it was still bad, so much of the commentary was fair, but many people took it to huge extremes). And I would add that the first JT3 hotseat thread was started on November 14, 2015, which was literally after our first game back after having made the NCAA tournament the previous year, beating a double digit seed, and then losing as a 4 to a 5. Just because JT3 was fired and things did get bad at the end of the timeframe doesn't mean that people didn't go overboard well in advance of that. And while I cannot speak to it, I wouldn't be surprised if the toxic environment contributed in some ways to some of our close losses at the end of the season. This really only matters insofar as I would hope certain Hoyas fans and people with media influence would be more responsible in their roles going forward.
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
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Post by AltoSaxa on Apr 12, 2017 14:46:40 GMT -5
If a teenager and his parents are that impressionable then I don't know what to say. Perhaps they read the board and started thinking JTIII would/may be fired. Guess what ... the board was right. Other than that to say there is causality regarding his de-commitment is just message board noise.
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,339
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 12, 2017 14:51:17 GMT -5
I think the members of the Georgetown basketball fan community need to understand that what we say on message boards and in social media do not happen in a vacuum. On occasion, there are consequences. And I know people say things like "it's just a message board" or "it's just a fan site" but both are the major sources of information on the program. On a daily basis, there really is no Georgetown coverage anywhere else aside from occasional articles on major events (like Ewing's hire) or games. So it matters a lot. I also think social media and message boards were responsible for making the program look a lot worse than it actually was (it was still bad, so much of the commentary was fair, but many people took it to huge extremes). And I would add that the first JT3 hotseat thread was started on November 14, 2015, which was literally after our first game back after having made the NCAA tournament the previous year, beating a double digit seed, and then losing as a 4 to a 5. Just because JT3 was fired and things did get bad at the end of the timeframe doesn't mean that people didn't go overboard well in advance of that. And while I cannot speak to it, I wouldn't be surprised if the toxic environment contributed in some ways to some of our close losses at the end of the season. This really only matters insofar as I would hope certain Hoyas fans and people with media influence would be more responsible in their roles going forward. The evidence you present also works the other way. The JT3 hotseat thread existed well before Tremont Waters committed, so it apparently did not bother him all that much then. Surely people go overboard on message boards---its the internet. This is not new and certainly not unique to Hoyatalk. It doesn't seem that Waters was concerned about "tweets" until JTIII was firmly in the midst of another awful season, and the writing was on the wall. The tweets he saw confirmed this was they case--they did not create that reality. The program wasn't in bad shape because people on Hoyatalk complain---people on Hoyatalk complain because the program was in bad shape. I sincerely hope that Ewing will bring a new, infectious energy to the program, and it certainly would be a great first step to get Waters back in the fold. I think generally having a (literally) huge presence like Pat walking in a recruit's door will have a tremendous impact--something Waters indicated.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
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Post by hoyainla on Apr 12, 2017 15:05:27 GMT -5
The butt hurt JT3 crowd will latch onto anything to cape up for their man. The only reason Tremont is even a possibility of coming to Georgetown is because of the social media/internet/whoever uproar that got JT3 fired. JT3 sold Tremont a bill of goods, which Tremont clearly bought into, and did not follow up his words with actions. This board and everyone else praised Tremont and anointed him the savior.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Apr 12, 2017 15:20:13 GMT -5
The butt hurt JT3 crowd will latch onto anything to cape up for their man. The only reason Tremont is even a possibility of coming to Georgetown is because of the social media/internet/whoever uproar that got JT3 fired. JT3 sold Tremont a bill of goods, which Tremont clearly bought into, and did not follow up his words with actions. This board and everyone else praised Tremont and anointed him the savior. Based on the quote from Tremont, he didn't ask for his release because JT3 "did not follow up his words with actions", he asked for his release because he thought JT3 would get fired within the next four years (which was based on fan and media sentiment).
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Post by BeantownHoya on Apr 12, 2017 15:24:22 GMT -5
Are we really going to do this again? Let it go people.
How about we show some unity and positivity around the program and root for Tremont to be Hoya.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Apr 12, 2017 15:27:58 GMT -5
Are we really going to do this again? Let it go people. How about we show some unity and positivity around the program and root for Tremont to be Hoya. Amen. Let's see if Patrick can bring this young man to the place we all love so much. The how's and whys of the past will be of no moment when he is wearing blue and gray.
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bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,095
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Post by bigskyhoya on Apr 12, 2017 15:34:03 GMT -5
I think the members of the Georgetown basketball fan community need to understand that what we say on message boards and in social media do not happen in a vacuum. On occasion, there are consequences. And I know people say things like "it's just a message board" or "it's just a fan site" but both are the major sources of information on the program. On a daily basis, there really is no Georgetown coverage anywhere else aside from occasional articles on major events (like Ewing's hire) or games. So it matters a lot. I also think social media and message boards were responsible for making the program look a lot worse than it actually was (it was still bad, so much of the commentary was fair, but many people took it to huge extremes). And I would add that the first JT3 hotseat thread was started on November 14, 2015, which was literally after our first game back after having made the NCAA tournament the previous year, beating a double digit seed, and then losing as a 4 to a 5. Just because JT3 was fired and things did get bad at the end of the timeframe doesn't mean that people didn't go overboard well in advance of that. And while I cannot speak to it, I wouldn't be surprised if the toxic environment contributed in some ways to some of our close losses at the end of the season. This really only matters insofar as I would hope certain Hoyas fans and people with media influence would be more responsible in their roles going forward. You will undoubtedly be disappointed. Whichever posts you deem to be irresponsible apparently met Board rules and should not otherwise be censored. People had strong feelings about this issue and this is the place where they expressed those feelings. I find it hard to believe that other fan sites are any different, so recruits looking for a kinder gentler fan base will be hard pressed to find one.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 12, 2017 15:40:55 GMT -5
Yeah basically every single team board is the same. Positive, negative, gushing praise, bitter vitriol, and everything in between
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by beenaround on Apr 12, 2017 15:56:11 GMT -5
I am pretty sure if the team had been Big East champs and gone to the Elite 8, folks on a message board hating on JTIII wouldn't have mattered to Waters. A program heading towards disarray, with rumors of mass transfers had to be pretty strong reasons to avoid Gtown..not just angry fans typing out things. Anyway...its all in the past...until it happens again!
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lb25
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 112
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Post by lb25 on Apr 12, 2017 16:53:11 GMT -5
I hope we have a chance....tremont said Ewing was saying the same things that jt3 was saying....not sure if that's good or bad.....i know Ewing needs to sell that we will no longer be running the Princeton offense Huh? Read the 3rd tweet. Waters said Ewing told him we would be running an NBA style offense. JT3 Also said we would be running a different offense this year.for the most part that didnt happen...
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