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Post by gav11 on Mar 22, 2017 9:00:00 GMT -5
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,303
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 22, 2017 9:01:30 GMT -5
I don't think that word means what you think it means. Let's discuss the law again!! An assault need not be consummated by a battery!! A mere threat to do physical harm and an apparent ability to do so will suffice if the victim reasonably apprehends that such harm is imminent. www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assaultUnnecessarily overreaching on a point only serves to undermine the very real criticisms of what is happening. It serves as a distraction. There are very real and valid criticisms that we could be discussing. If you say "threaten" instead of "assault" -- which is bad enough by itself -- it allows us to have a very necessary discussion about it without getting bogged down sorting through hyperbole. If you say assault when you know that most people associate assault with an actual physical altercation instead of a threat...well then we are stuck talking about how that didn't actually happen rather than how messed up it is that a student was threatened. See what I'm saying?
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,298
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 22, 2017 9:16:16 GMT -5
Let's discuss the law again!! An assault need not be consummated by a battery!! A mere threat to do physical harm and an apparent ability to do so will suffice if the victim reasonably apprehends that such harm is imminent. www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assaultSo if the kid did not actually believe that he was going to be attacked in public in an arena with thousands of witnesses, it was not assault? If the kid actually did NOT believe he was going to be attacked you are applying a subjective standard which would be irrelevant. A cop or Verizon security overhearing the alleged threat would apply an objective standard and the conduct could still be interpreted as an assault and intervene even if the alleged victim did NOT feel threatened. (As a matter of practical reality, if the cop or security personnel talked to the alleged victim and determined he did NOT actually feel threatened, it would end the story, and warn both parties to tone it down -- we've all seen this occur in arenas). Typically, an objective standard (reasonable person test) is applied. Applying an objective standard here (i.e, whether a reasonable person would be in fear of imminent physical harm): Would a fan attending an athletic event who is cheering for the coach to be fired and is confronted by an angry supporter of the coaching staff have a reasonable fear given the words uttered by the former player? In my opinion, the answer is "yes" since we are all familiar with fights occurring at athletic events where tempers and passions may run high. Especially since I've attended more than enough games at Syracuse!
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,298
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 22, 2017 9:17:24 GMT -5
Let's discuss the law again!! An assault need not be consummated by a battery!! A mere threat to do physical harm and an apparent ability to do so will suffice if the victim reasonably apprehends that such harm is imminent. www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assaultUnnecessarily overreaching on a point only serves to undermine the very real criticisms of what is happening. It serves as a distraction. There are very real and valid criticisms that we could be discussing. If you say "threaten" instead of "assault" -- which is bad enough by itself -- it allows us to have a very necessary discussion about it without getting bogged down sorting through hyperbole. If you say assault when you know that most people associate assault with an actual physical altercation instead of a threat...well then we are stuck talking about how that didn't actually happen rather than how messed up it is that a student was threatened. See what I'm saying? I am trying to distract myself from what is going on here to maintain my sanity. . .
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Mar 22, 2017 9:24:36 GMT -5
So if the kid did not actually believe that he was going to be attacked in public in an arena with thousands of witnesses, it was not assault? If the kid actually did NOT believe he was going to be attacked you are applying a subjective standard which would be irrelevant. A cop or Verizon security overhearing the alleged threat would apply an objective standard and the conduct could still be interpreted as an assault and intervene even if the alleged victim did NOT feel threatened. (As a matter of practical reality, if the cop or security personnel talked to the alleged victim and determined he did NOT actually feel threatened, it would end the story, and warn both parties to tone it down -- we've all seen this occur in arenas). Typically, an objective standard (reasonable person test) is applied. Applying an objective standard here (i.e, whether a reasonable person would be in fear of imminent physical harm): Would a fan attending an athletic event who is cheering for the coach to be fired and is confronted by an angry supporter of the coaching staff have a reasonable fear given the words uttered by the former player? In my opinion, the answer is "yes" since we are all familiar with fights occurring at athletic events where tempers and passions may run high. Especially since I've attended more than enough games at Syracuse! I am truly, truly sorry I used the word assault and unleashed a henpecker law talking guy upon the board again. Not you SS, whoever the poster was who got the vapors over the word "assault."
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,298
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 22, 2017 9:32:02 GMT -5
If the kid actually did NOT believe he was going to be attacked you are applying a subjective standard which would be irrelevant. A cop or Verizon security overhearing the alleged threat would apply an objective standard and the conduct could still be interpreted as an assault and intervene even if the alleged victim did NOT feel threatened. (As a matter of practical reality, if the cop or security personnel talked to the alleged victim and determined he did NOT actually feel threatened, it would end the story, and warn both parties to tone it down -- we've all seen this occur in arenas). Typically, an objective standard (reasonable person test) is applied. Applying an objective standard here (i.e, whether a reasonable person would be in fear of imminent physical harm): Would a fan attending an athletic event who is cheering for the coach to be fired and is confronted by an angry supporter of the coaching staff have a reasonable fear given the words uttered by the former player? In my opinion, the answer is "yes" since we are all familiar with fights occurring at athletic events where tempers and passions may run high. Especially since I've attended more than enough games at Syracuse! I am truly, truly sorry I used the word assault and unleashed a henpecker law talking guy upon the board again. Not you SS, whoever the poster was who got the vapors over the word "assault." I'm going to quit legal discussions on the basketball thread henceforth!! I'll leave that to the Blue & Gray board.
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s4hoyas
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by s4hoyas on Mar 22, 2017 10:00:34 GMT -5
I love LJ and wish him the best...he's a warrior/kept fighting when times were tough...I was hoping that he would "test the waters" to determine his draft status, but not hire an agent...if its an economic/financial need, I certainly understand...but if he determines that he's not happy with his draft stock, he could return and work on improving the parts of his game the scouts indicate to him...either way, best of luck!
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Post by grandmahoya on Mar 22, 2017 10:22:02 GMT -5
I will truly miss you, LJ. While other players have made impressions on me over the years with their offensive and defensive skills, you have touched me with your big heart, boundless energy and will to win. Wishing you and your family the very best, and we'll all be watching to see where you go and what you achieve in your BB career. Good luck to a special Hoya!
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Post by michaelgrahamfan on Mar 22, 2017 11:21:15 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 22, 2017 11:22:36 GMT -5
If the kid actually did NOT believe he was going to be attacked you are applying a subjective standard which would be irrelevant. A cop or Verizon security overhearing the alleged threat would apply an objective standard and the conduct could still be interpreted as an assault and intervene even if the alleged victim did NOT feel threatened. (As a matter of practical reality, if the cop or security personnel talked to the alleged victim and determined he did NOT actually feel threatened, it would end the story, and warn both parties to tone it down -- we've all seen this occur in arenas). Typically, an objective standard (reasonable person test) is applied. Applying an objective standard here (i.e, whether a reasonable person would be in fear of imminent physical harm): Would a fan attending an athletic event who is cheering for the coach to be fired and is confronted by an angry supporter of the coaching staff have a reasonable fear given the words uttered by the former player? In my opinion, the answer is "yes" since we are all familiar with fights occurring at athletic events where tempers and passions may run high. Especially since I've attended more than enough games at Syracuse! I am truly, truly sorry I used the word assault and unleashed a henpecker law talking guy upon the board again. Not you SS, whoever the poster was who got the vapors over the word "assault." While I may or not be "henpecked" (my wife and I may disagree on that point), I am hoping you meant "nitpicker". You see how important the correct term can be sometimes?๐
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Mar 22, 2017 11:35:43 GMT -5
I am truly, truly sorry I used the word assault and unleashed a henpecker law talking guy upon the board again. Not you SS, whoever the poster was who got the vapors over the word "assault." While I may or not be "henpecked" (my wife and I may disagree on that point), I am hoping you meant "nitpicker". You see how important the correct term can be sometimes?๐ Ha. Oh for gods sake. I make no assumptions as to gender or marital status and henpecked is undeniably a better word.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 22, 2017 12:21:49 GMT -5
Hope the best for you L. J. Good Luck to LJ. I think he has tough road ahead of him to find a spot on an NBA roster at this point, but the kid always showed a great work ethic and played with great energy. It is easy to cheer for a kid like this. I think he has a chance to become a Tony Allen type of player in the NBA. Very athletic and works hard on defense and runs the floor. I remember when the Celtics drafted Tony Allen and LJ shoots the ball much better then Tony Allen did when he was initially drafted, so maybe it could work for LJ.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,546
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 22, 2017 12:24:51 GMT -5
While I may or not be "henpecked" (my wife and I may disagree on that point), I am hoping you meant "nitpicker". You see how important the correct term can be sometimes?๐ Ha. Oh for gods sake. I make no assumptions as to gender or marital status and henpecked is undeniably a better word. Balderdash.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,546
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 22, 2017 12:37:18 GMT -5
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,007
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Post by dense on Mar 22, 2017 12:41:09 GMT -5
I remember he was supposed to be the problem child from that class. lol
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,546
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 22, 2017 13:28:11 GMT -5
I remember he was supposed to be the problem child from that class. lol The 'problem child' doesn't appear to be hewing to the social media narrative about the program. I wish him great luck in pursuing his dream.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 22, 2017 14:02:33 GMT -5
Wherever you land we wish you good luck and a great career.
And don't forget to get your degree at some point.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 22, 2017 18:31:45 GMT -5
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Mar 22, 2017 19:11:53 GMT -5
Best of luck LJ. Your statement reveals a man ready to take on the world and succeed. Godspeed and HoyaSaxa!!!
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Loyal Hoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 554
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Post by Loyal Hoya on Mar 22, 2017 20:06:14 GMT -5
Best of luck to a great Hoya! I wish him well chasing his dream. I hope he chooses to finish his degree when he's ready.
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