EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,233
|
Post by EtomicB on May 20, 2016 14:08:48 GMT -5
Three players on the 2016/17 roster will be in their final year of eligibility at GU 1. Cameron -- graduating senior 2. Pryor -- fifth year eligible senior 3. Hayes -- Red shirt eligible senior We have ONE committed player coming in - Foster. That leaves 2 open schollies if nothing else happens. That said, there are two additional facts to take into consideration. 1. Foster is only a verbal at this point. He could change his mind. It happens. He is not allowed to sign until the early signing period of his senior year - sometime in November, 2016. No recruits in the country are allowed to sign until the early signing period of their senior year. 2. When it was announced that HAYES would return, we already had a full roster of 13 scholarship players. No announcement was made then or since about who would be giving up their scholarship next season to make room for Bradley. I have no idea who it might be, but I bet the staff does. Somehow, a schollie will be opened and will be filled by Hayes - for one year. At the end of next season, Hayes will have completely used up any possible eligibility and will depart, thereby freeing up the "mystery" schollie that must open between now and when school starts in the fall. So... once again... barring any unforseen developments, we will have 3 schollies open after next season, and one of those three has already been committed. Just to be clear Sir Saxa, you are just referring to the 2017 recruiting class right? Not the infinite amount the program will have over the next few centuries? Here's the list that Hoyabinix keeps updated and it shows one available for next year, if the program gets to 2 then a player who currently has a scholarship now will have his taken away.. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/txQcO7LXACDjZOhwFpxQuyQ/htmlview?pli=1I don't see how that scholarship appears thru normal graduation process.. At this time we don't know where Hayes's slot comes from, Reggies will go to Foster & Pryor's is open The roster log kept in this thread shows the same thing..
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 20, 2016 14:24:59 GMT -5
Really, the only crunch is 2017. Let's say everybody stays and we have 14 players. In that case, I think the only way the team can solve the problem is having Mourning go off scholarship. I do not see any way in which the other 13 would not be "counters" toward the total of 13, but I guess stranger things have happened in the odd NCAA world of scholarships.
If that's true, then there should be 3 scholarships open after next season, if nothing changes (2 with Foster). There's really no reason to think that if Mourning goes off scholarship this season that he would automatically go back on scholarship the year after. My feeling is that with Mourning, it's really not all about basketball and playing time - the kid was the only basketball player to get the scholar-athlete recognition his freshman year. I am guessing that graduating from Georgetown with a degree is probably pretty important to both him and his parents. Thus, the whole talk about him going to another place where he could be on scholarship seems a little misguided to me.
Really, what if Mourning was 5'8 with no basketball ability? I think it's safe to say that he likely would have ended up at Georgetown anyway. Moreover, the fact that Georgetown did not officially recruit Mourning was clearly was an intentional decision on either the part of the staff, the Mourning family, or both. For example, with Jaren Jackson, Georgetown is clearly recruiting him (and thus he'd count as a scholarship regardless of who paid his tuition). Why did the staff "recruit" Mourning differently? I really have no idea, but there has to be more to that story that we will not know.
Regardless, this is somewhat academic. As I've said, the 2018 class likely is the more important / bigger class, and there should be plenty of scholarships available by then.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,520
|
Post by MCIGuy on May 20, 2016 14:30:01 GMT -5
Three players on the 2016/17 roster will be in their final year of eligibility at GU 1. Cameron -- graduating senior 2. Pryor -- fifth year eligible senior 3. Hayes -- Red shirt eligible senior We have ONE committed player coming in - Foster. That leaves 2 open schollies if nothing else happens. It is not just the committed schollie to Tyler (for now). It is the fact that we have 14 players as of now even though we only can hand out 13 scholarships a season. That means we may be already looking at a -2 for the three definite openings considering we don't know what the situation is regarding HOW we attained an opening to allow Hayes to return. To assume the schollie automatically opens up after Hayes' departure is premature. Something was done to accommodate Hayes' return as player #14 on a 13 scholarship limit. Until that situation is cleared up we can not conclude anything. For all we know one player is having his tuition paid for by family for THIS UPCOMING YEAR only but if that is the case there is no guarantee it will be done again after Hayes leaves. So with one player over the limit, and one schollie already (still) committed, we may likely be looking at one single scholarship opening if only the expected three senior/post grads move on after next season.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,527
|
Post by prhoya on May 20, 2016 14:44:15 GMT -5
I had not posted in a while, but I'm glad we're still discussing the scholarship situation. We have 13 scholarship players and two walk-ons, period. As of now, we have three scholarships opening up for next year; one verbally taken, one open and one if needed. But, not to worry, JT3 and the McD PR staff will put out a press release explaining the ins and outs of our scholarship situation and the plan moving forward. (Note: just do not hold your breath )
|
|
dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
|
Post by dense on May 20, 2016 14:58:55 GMT -5
Back to Walker, with Massanutten being one of his potential landing places for postgrad, seems like new assistant coach Waheed stashed a DC-area kid there a few years ago that eventually played for him at BC - Garland Owens. So likely an existing relationship between Waheed and Massanutten. That makes me think even more he might want to come here. I was thinking more in that both schools are close to DC and it seems that he does not want to be too far from DC.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 20, 2016 15:29:40 GMT -5
It is not just the committed schollie to Tyler (for now). It is the fact that we have 14 players as of now even though we only can hand out 13 scholarships a season. That means we may be already looking at a -2 for the three definite openings considering we don't know what the situation is regarding HOW we attained an opening to allow Hayes to return. To assume the schollie automatically opens up after Hayes' departure is premature. Something was done to accommodate Hayes' return as player #14 on a 13 scholarship limit. Until that situation is cleared up we can not conclude anything. For all we know one player is having his tuition paid for by family for THIS UPCOMING YEAR only but if that is the case there is no guarantee it will be done again after Hayes leaves. So with one player over the limit, and one schollie already (still) committed, we may likely be looking at one single scholarship opening if only the expected three senior/post grads move on after next season. Given the way Georgetown communicates about these things, I am not confident we will know how the situation is resolved. To my knowledge, the only way the 13 scholarship count can be circumvented is if someone is not a "counter" and thus, can essentially give up their scholarship. If anyone is aware of any other methods of dealing with it, let me know, but I think that's it. This situation is actually pretty close to Creighton's situation for 2013-2014. Grant Gibbs was granted a sixth year of eligibility, which pushed Creighton to 14 players. Doug McDermott gave up his scholarship and served as a walk on at Creighton. This is basically the same situation we face here. It might be premature to assume that the Hayes' scholarship automatically opens up after this season, but I think that there's just as much reason to make that assumption as there is to assume it won't open up. We just have no idea now. As you said, we have no idea what's happening, though my understanding of the rules is that it would almost certainly have to be Mourning since the others are "counters" toward the limit regardless of who pays their tuition. For example, I think even if LJ Peak's family wanted to pay for his tuition, it wouldn't matter toward the 13 player limit anyway. In McDermott's case, I am assuming he could drop the scholarship because he wasn't "officially" recruited, and I think Mourning is in the same situation. My sense is that we likely will pull in a relatively small 2017 class (regardless of scholarship situations), and then load up in 2018.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,233
|
Post by EtomicB on May 20, 2016 15:57:29 GMT -5
It is not just the committed schollie to Tyler (for now). It is the fact that we have 14 players as of now even though we only can hand out 13 scholarships a season. That means we may be already looking at a -2 for the three definite openings considering we don't know what the situation is regarding HOW we attained an opening to allow Hayes to return. To assume the schollie automatically opens up after Hayes' departure is premature. Something was done to accommodate Hayes' return as player #14 on a 13 scholarship limit. Until that situation is cleared up we can not conclude anything. For all we know one player is having his tuition paid for by family for THIS UPCOMING YEAR only but if that is the case there is no guarantee it will be done again after Hayes leaves. So with one player over the limit, and one schollie already (still) committed, we may likely be looking at one single scholarship opening if only the expected three senior/post grads move on after next season. Given the way Georgetown communicates about these things, I am not confident we will know how the situation is resolved. To my knowledge, the only way the 13 scholarship count can be circumvented is if someone is not a "counter" and thus, can essentially give up their scholarship. If anyone is aware of any other methods of dealing with it, let me know, but I think that's it. This situation is actually pretty close to Creighton's situation for 2013-2014. Grant Gibbs was granted a sixth year of eligibility, which pushed Creighton to 14 players. Doug McDermott gave up his scholarship and served as a walk on at Creighton. This is basically the same situation we face here. It might be premature to assume that the Hayes' scholarship automatically opens up after this season, but I think that there's just as much reason to make that assumption as there is to assume it won't open up. We just have no idea now. As you said, we have no idea what's happening, though my understanding of the rules is that it would almost certainly have to be Mourning since the others are "counters" toward the limit regardless of who pays their tuition. For example, I think even if LJ Peak's family wanted to pay for his tuition, it wouldn't matter toward the 13 player limit anyway. In McDermott's case, I am assuming he could drop the scholarship because he wasn't "officially" recruited, and I think Mourning is in the same situation. My sense is that we likely will pull in a relatively small 2017 class (regardless of scholarship situations), and then load up in 2018. Not really the same because McDermott & Gibbs weren't coming back the following season, in this case whoever gives up a slot for Hayes will return for the 2017-18 season.. Giving up your spot for a season to a current teammate is admirable but not getting it back because of an unknown HS possibility not so much in my view..
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 20, 2016 17:18:15 GMT -5
We have no way of knowing any of this. We do not know for sure where the scholarship for Hayes is coming from though we suspect it's coming from mourning.
*Speculation from here on so don't bother trying to argue about it I have no proof and neither do you.*
But if that is the case then he wasn't recruited to come here by the strict definition. Which means he was never promised a scholarship in the first place. Which means if he was on scholarship last year (not necessarily known but likely since we had an extra spot) it was only because we had an extra one not because he was offered a scholarship before committing with the assumption he'd be on one for four years. If the latter was the case he'd have been a recruit and couldn't give up his scholarship and not count. So we wouldn't be taking away a scholarship from him we promised he would have been given it temporarily for a year because we weren't using it. So I doubt he'd feel entitled to it. He also likely cares more about winning than this scholarship debate and would want the team to be as good as possible.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,143
|
Post by RBHoya on May 20, 2016 17:34:59 GMT -5
It seems a lot of the disagreement here stems from the question of "How exactly do we have 14 scholarship players for the coming year??" Some seem to have assumed that to bring Hayes back we're taking the scholarship from Trey, and that the Mourning family is bearing the cost of this. Therefore, asking the Mournings to bear this cost for more than one year is unacceptable, and so we only have 2 scholarships freeing up at the end of this season. While I can follow that logic, I certainly think there's a lot of places it could be off-base. It may not be Trey whose scholarship goes to Brad. Or it could be Trey's scholarship, but the school or the staff may have found a creative way to ensure that the Mournings do not have to pay tuition--perhaps by virtue of being the son of a board member, or receiving a non-basketball scholarship of some kind. While I know many here are quick to spout their knowledge about "counters" and miscellaneous NCAA statutes about these sorts of things, I've seen enough scholarship legerdemain over the years, from schools like Creighton and UConn amongst others, to know that these kinds of things are rife with loopholes. Maybe we've found and exploited one of those loopholes--just like we did when we found a way to get Brad a 5th year to begin with (maybe the NCAA is just scared of all the attorneys in our alumni base ). Or, maybe the Mournings ARE bearing the cost of Trey's tuition this year, but they're ok with it and would be ok with it in the future as well. Maybe that was part of the agreement all along. Maybe Trey was never on a basketball scholarship. Ultimately few if any of us know the truth, and the way our program is run, this kind of info will never be public. But I think there are plenty of scenarios where we graduate 3 guys this year and have 3 scholarships freed up by that to go to 2017 kids. When you combine that with the probabilities of us losing 1 more kids to transfer and losing one or more kids to the pros, I think we need to be preparing to bring in AT LEAST 3 kids in 2017. If the over/under was set at 3 new recruits for 2017, and you had to bet your life (or your career) on it right now, what would you bet? I think 3 is definitely a possibility, but I'd definitely take the over. 14 guys who "expect to play" is going to lead to transfers, 3 guys graduating, a few guys who have some pro potential... I'd be SHOCKED if all we add to the program next year is Foster + 1 other. Shocked.
|
|
|
Post by BeantownHoya on May 20, 2016 19:24:52 GMT -5
I hate to continue to hijack the Walker thread but I guess im doing it...
This a completely honest question. Is the University not required to in some way make it publicly known who is on an athletic scholarship and who is not? Do most schools make it more known than Georgetown?
I guess i find it crazy in this day in age that schools arent required to make this information known in one way or another and accessible to all or maybe i am way off and it has always been this way?
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,233
|
Post by EtomicB on May 20, 2016 21:15:32 GMT -5
Walker continues to turn heads this spring..
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,520
|
Post by MCIGuy on May 21, 2016 0:05:02 GMT -5
Look I don't think the Hoyas will end up bringing in only two guys in 2017. Never did. One reason for this is because I actually think highly of guys like Peak and Copeland (if he can get his game together) to be good enough to both make the leap to the pros after next season AND get drafted by NBA teams. I also believe that it is very possible that someone may transfer after next season too or even during the season. But that isn't the issue. Because those scenarios are nothing more than possibilities at this point, not certainties. And if you are a coach who is responsible you need to deal with certainties if you end up having kids commit/sign to your program BEFORE the scholarship openings become available.
Because possibilities don't mean a thing if a player gets injured and feels he has to stay in school another year, or if a player doesn't have as good season that everyone else expected and therefore has to stay in school another year or if players decide they aren't going to transfer after all because they like Gtown, have made friends, like the value of a Georgetown degree (which is something people here always stress as a reason for recruits to sign with Gtown in the first place), are very comfortable with the school and don't feel like packing up and starting anew at another university just for the opportunity to play one more season of basketball for a new program. You see these scenarios are possibilities too whether some of you want to accept it or not.
But on this site whenever this situation arises and Hoya fans get pumped over the possibility of highly regarded recruiting haul even if the Hoyas are already close to or "over the cap" so to speak, the folks on this board always suggest these same options for why there won't be a scholarship crunch:
1- Players will transfer 2- Already committed players that aren't s highly regarded will make it easy for the program by decommitting 3 - Players have some special circumstance unknown to the rest of us that will allow them to get a free ride without being counted against the scholarship 4 - Players in love with the idea of being at Gtown will have their parents foot the bill for a year's worth of tuition 5 - One of more of those players will be gone to the pros by then
Okay first of all who wants to root for option # unless the player is a problem child? I like to see all the kids start and finish their college run at Georgetown. Granted transfers happen but should we be expecting it, counting on it, hoping for it? And why? To bring in other players who, if they don't live up to our expectations, will find themselves being viewed as transfer-material themselves in a couple of years during the next scholarship crunch?
Expecting/hoping for #2 seems Maryland-Gary Williams-Jewish Jordan type of shady. No thanks.
#3 and #4 simply haven't happened all these years despite countless times of people bringing it up as some legal option. Is next season the first time this will actually occur? Perhaps. But by now we should know we shouldn't count on these scenario.
#5 hasn't been all that necessary in seasons in which there has been an upcoming numbers crunch. Maybe it will be different this time around. Yet...Gtown is no Kentucky and none of our guys are really that high on the radar at this moment of the draft sites.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 0:39:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by harwoodhoya on May 21, 2016 1:40:13 GMT -5
Unless something crazy happens it's a done deal. Very reliable source. More to the story but can only say so much. One D1 coach called me yesterday to tell me he's a pro.
|
|
dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
|
Post by dense on May 21, 2016 1:40:18 GMT -5
I hope he comes here. I like that his game is translating to these events. He is a guy who is an athletic freak in that he is 6'7/6'8 can run, and is solidly built that he can bully people.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 9:18:02 GMT -5
ANTWAN WALKER OPTS FOR 2017 One of the better available prospects late in the 2016 recruiting class is no more. Antwan Walker did not commit to a college program but instead decided to go the prep route this fall, becoming a member of the 2017 class. Passing the looks test with a breeze and a super fluid and efficient scorer at the basket, Walker had it going once again on Friday evening in Hampton. Far from a finished product on the playing floor, Walker’s upside is pretty intriguing. He is a tough-nosed combo forward type standing at 6-foot-7 and has rapidly put on muscle that allows for him to produce in the more physically heightened affairs. His jumper isn’t consistent just yet but where the Team Loaded star flourishes is out on the break and off of the hard righty drive to the basket. Following his team’s victory on Friday, Walker noted that he is undecided on where he will attend school in the fall, but more than likely, it will either be at Hargrave Military Academy or Massanutten Military Academy. Whatever the case, expect for the giant spring stock boosting forward to enhance his resume much more as he produces with consistency and toughness each time that he hits the hardwood. www.hoopseen.com/news/event/201605/hg-southern-jam-fest-day-one-elijah-mccadden-becomes-a-name
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 9:29:48 GMT -5
Truth....
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,233
|
Post by EtomicB on May 21, 2016 10:03:39 GMT -5
ANTWAN WALKER OPTS FOR 2017 One of the better available prospects late in the 2016 recruiting class is no more. Antwan Walker did not commit to a college program but instead decided to go the prep route this fall, becoming a member of the 2017 class. Passing the looks test with a breeze and a super fluid and efficient scorer at the basket, Walker had it going once again on Friday evening in Hampton. Far from a finished product on the playing floor, Walker’s upside is pretty intriguing. He is a tough-nosed combo forward type standing at 6-foot-7 and has rapidly put on muscle that allows for him to produce in the more physically heightened affairs. His jumper isn’t consistent just yet but where the Team Loaded star flourishes is out on the break and off of the hard righty drive to the basket. Following his team’s victory on Friday, Walker noted that he is undecided on where he will attend school in the fall, but more than likely, it will either be at Hargrave Military Academy or Massanutten Military Academy. Whatever the case, expect for the giant spring stock boosting forward to enhance his resume much more as he produces with consistency and toughness each time that he hits the hardwood. www.hoopseen.com/news/event/201605/hg-southern-jam-fest-day-one-elijah-mccadden-becomes-a-nameDefinitely like what I'm reading about him this spring.. Getting him could open the flood gates for the program.. I'm assuming he still has to get his qualifying test scores though right?
|
|
SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
|
Post by SirSaxa on May 21, 2016 11:48:08 GMT -5
ANTWAN WALKER OPTS FOR 2017 One of the better available prospects late in the 2016 recruiting class is no more. Antwan Walker did not commit to a college program but instead decided to go the prep route this fall, becoming a member of the 2017 class. Passing the looks test with a breeze and a super fluid and efficient scorer at the basket, Walker had it going once again on Friday evening in Hampton. Far from a finished product on the playing floor, Walker’s upside is pretty intriguing. He is a tough-nosed combo forward type standing at 6-foot-7 and has rapidly put on muscle that allows for him to produce in the more physically heightened affairs. His jumper isn’t consistent just yet but where the Team Loaded star flourishes is out on the break and off of the hard righty drive to the basket. Following his team’s victory on Friday, Walker noted that he is undecided on where he will attend school in the fall, but more than likely, it will either be at Hargrave Military Academy or Massanutten Military Academy. Whatever the case, expect for the giant spring stock boosting forward to enhance his resume much more as he produces with consistency and toughness each time that he hits the hardwood. www.hoopseen.com/news/event/201605/hg-southern-jam-fest-day-one-elijah-mccadden-becomes-a-nameYaboy, thanks. I realize this next comment stems from before your time, but maybe some of the old dogs have commented about this? That is, how does Walker compare to Craig "Big Sky" Shelton? By the time he left, Shelton was the best F in Hoya history. I believe he was also 6'7. Athletic. Great on D and the boards, and would find ways to score - pre-Three point shot. I don't recall outside shooting being one of his strengths, maybe some of the older posters might recall. His best year was his final year, along with classmate Johnny "Ba ba" Duren - best PG in Hoya history. And, sophomore guard Eric "Sleepy" Floyd, best guard in Hoya history. Wow...that team had the best PG, G and F in Hoya history to that point in time. Lost by a point to Iowa in the Elite Eight after blowing a 14 pt second half lead. Devastating. Sorry for getting off track. But some kind of comparison for Walker's game would be appreciated.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,398
|
Post by hoyainspirit on May 21, 2016 12:10:23 GMT -5
ANTWAN WALKER OPTS FOR 2017 One of the better available prospects late in the 2016 recruiting class is no more. Antwan Walker did not commit to a college program but instead decided to go the prep route this fall, becoming a member of the 2017 class. Passing the looks test with a breeze and a super fluid and efficient scorer at the basket, Walker had it going once again on Friday evening in Hampton. Far from a finished product on the playing floor, Walker’s upside is pretty intriguing. He is a tough-nosed combo forward type standing at 6-foot-7 and has rapidly put on muscle that allows for him to produce in the more physically heightened affairs. His jumper isn’t consistent just yet but where the Team Loaded star flourishes is out on the break and off of the hard righty drive to the basket. Following his team’s victory on Friday, Walker noted that he is undecided on where he will attend school in the fall, but more than likely, it will either be at Hargrave Military Academy or Massanutten Military Academy. Whatever the case, expect for the giant spring stock boosting forward to enhance his resume much more as he produces with consistency and toughness each time that he hits the hardwood. www.hoopseen.com/news/event/201605/hg-southern-jam-fest-day-one-elijah-mccadden-becomes-a-nameYaboy, thanks. I realize this next comment stems from before your time, but maybe some of the old dogs have commented about this? That is, how does Walker compare to Craig "Big Sky" Shlton? By the time he left, Shelton was the best F in Hoya history. I believe he was also 6'7. Athletic. Great on D and the boards, and would find ways to score - pre-Three point shot. I don't recall outside shooting being one of his strengths, maybe some of the older posters might recall. His best year was his final year, along with classmate Johnny "Ba ba" Duren - best PG in Hoya history. And, sophomore guard Eric "Sleepy" Floyd, best guard in Hoya history. Wow...that team had the best PG, G and F in Hoya history to that point in time. Lost by a point to Iowa in the Elite Eight after blowing a 14 pt second half lead. Devastating. Sorry for getting off track. But some kind of comparison for Walker's game would be appreciated. Agree on all. Once Shelton got into the lane, his shot was almost automatic. I hope he compares favorably to Shelton! And I was crushed when we lost.
|
|