kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 10, 2016 17:00:30 GMT -5
A general consensus? That seems to be overstating things. kc, I'll add that I have a relative who is an undergrad. Although he is a season ticket holder, goes to all the games and is a die-hard like me, over the Christmas break he told me something similar to what trillest wrote. My point was more to the fact that there's no real consensus on any issue at Georgetown (among the student at least). To say there is a general consensus among the students that "JT3 won't lead our team to any significant victory" presumes that more than 20% of the students really care about the men's BB program, which I doubt based on my experience and my communications with current undergrads.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 10, 2016 17:30:33 GMT -5
I can think of several factors are all coming into play this season. Forgive my categories; I'm sure these could be parsed, sliced, and re-combined in all sorts of ways, but this is how I see it (in no particular order of importance):
1. On-court performance: you win games, more people show up. Too many home losses this year, not a good enough overall W-L to draw the casual fan, and our terrible start against Radford alone had to have resulted in measurably lower attendance. It's been disappointing; nobody likes being disappointed or --- worse --- expecting to be disappointed. Add to that hand-wringing, hair-pulling, "what the heck are they doing out there!" moments throughout the season, and even some die-hards (not me, of course) are wondering whether they should just stay home (or at the Greene Turtle). There's also the "star power" sub-factor at play here. As great as DSR is and as much potential as we see in some of the young guys, nobody has the name recognition and drawing power of a potential future lottery pick. After a streak of Green-Hibbert-Monroe-Porter over the past several years that hasn't held up. No Hoya has been drafted since Otto in 2013.
2. Rivalries / Quality & Notoriety of Opponents: people show up for the 'cuse game, the 'nova game, and whenever we play a nationally-known powerhouse. Conference realignment hurt us (as we knew it would the first few years) and it takes time to replace decades of history between schools. The old "big" Big East had more schools and more chances for better draws; we got to play UConn, 'Cuse, Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame, and WVU every year for conference dominance. Even USF was a foil for several years. The new Big East is smaller and has lesser-known teams. Even though X, C, and B have had solid seasons, they're not as well known and we don't have nearly as much history (or bad blood). Traditional rivalries like St John's are next to irrelevant on the national stage now, even with Mullin on the sideline. And DePaul still stinks.
3. Geography & Relationships: This is related to 2. The old Big East had schools our students maybe applied to or grew up near, giving them some connection to and interest in the outcome of games, basketball notwithstanding. Even if they didn't care about hoops, they cared about their friends or family members who went to UConn, 'Cuse, Pitt, or Rutgers, or Notre Dame. Maybe some of those folks made the trip down on the train and boom: more butts in seats. The loss of the Conn, Pitt, NJ, & northern NY markets isn't made up for by adding Indy, Nebraska, and Cinci, which aren't areas our students come from as much as the Tri-State area, and are too far away for a quick train or cheap plane trip.
4. Year-on-year results in the NCAAs: the team's failure to live to up expectations March after March hurts attendance both the year immediately following and cumulatively over time. It's the cost of a lost opportunity: the soph season ticket holder who got turned off by losing to Florida Gulf Coast decided not to buy a season ticket the next year because of it, or the pre-frosh who saw the loss to Ohio decided not to get one in the first place.
5. Transportation: with busing or a Metro subsidy, more students sitting on the fence would come to games than would without it. Athletics should absolutely bring this back somehow. Maybe a deal could be worked out with UberPool, even.
6. Campus leadership and buzz: if it's the thing to do, more people show up, even if they don't care about the game. If not, they don't. It doesn't help that campus leadership is so weak right now. Where's Hoya Blue and why aren't they trying to get creative and motivate classmates to see home games as not just a way to watch hoops, but to get away from the screen, interact with their friends (maybe make new ones), and get off campus and live a little? I know students are more class-and-career focused, but still; you're only 18-22 once.
7. Weather: if the weather sucks, people don't make the effort. On the margin, this can make a difference, especially when there are other factors at play.
8. Cost: Leaving aside the cost of tickets and transport, food and drinks at the Booth keep getting more and more expensive but salaries in the sectors in which many students and alums work haven't been going up at the same rate.
9. Competing forms of entertainment: In 1986, 1996, or 2006, G'town Hoops had less (and lesser) competition as an entertainment option. In 2016, amazing apps on smartphones, social media, Netflix (and associated chilling), etc. compete for fans' attention better than network TV, cable, print media, Napster, or MySpace. I think the Booth's timeout and halftime entertainment is part of this, too. It's been more-or-less the same for years without much innovation or improvement.
10. Gametimes: sure, noon games can be a pain, but 9pm games on school and work nights are a deal breaker for a lot of people, students and alums alike (again, not me of course).
Just my thoughts.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Feb 10, 2016 18:47:41 GMT -5
Just put out a good product and the rich and poor will come. You can't give away enough prizes or discount tickets enough to lure folks to mediocrity.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Feb 10, 2016 18:50:57 GMT -5
kc, I'll add that I have a relative who is an undergrad. Although he is a season ticket holder, goes to all the games and is a die-hard like me, over the Christmas break he told me something similar to what trillest wrote. My point was more to the fact that there's no real consensus on any issue at Georgetown (among the student at least). To say there is a general consensus among the students that "JT3 won't lead our team to any significant victory" presumes that more than 20% of the students really care about the men's BB program, which I doubt based on my experience and my communications with current undergrads. No real consensus? That seems to be overstating things.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 10, 2016 22:57:38 GMT -5
kc, I'll add that I have a relative who is an undergrad. Although he is a season ticket holder, goes to all the games and is a die-hard like me, over the Christmas break he told me something similar to what trillest wrote. My point was more to the fact that there's no real consensus on any issue at Georgetown (among the student at least). To say there is a general consensus among the students that "JT3 won't lead our team to any significant victory" presumes that more than 20% of the students really care about the men's BB program, which I doubt based on my experience and my communications with current undergrads. It's always been the same and the fact that students have to travel on a bus to a home game remains the same. You win and have excitement, you'll have a large student representation in the building as it's deemed worthy of attending and has excitement attached to it. To discount the earlier points about this regime driving that excitement out of the program has long been predicted and to the program's credit took many years of debacles but is coming home with this current season for the ages. I was a student and wouldn't get on a bus to show up for a team that doesn't show up. Why is this surprising. It's not rich kids from prep schools as that is what Georgetown has always been populated with and they'll support a winner like anyone else. There's no excitement or faith in what we are doing and that is showing up.
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Feb 10, 2016 23:52:17 GMT -5
Netflix and chill has always been an option but we just called it something else. Same same but different. What product is on the floor and what environment/buzz gets people there. Why do we always debate this?
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 10, 2016 23:57:54 GMT -5
Netflix and chill has always been an option but we just called it something else. Same same but different. What product is on the floor and what environment/buzz gets people there. Why do we always debate this? We are in agreement but there are those that want to create distraction for what it --- continued under performing teams that have drained interest in the program. Win and show hope and they will come.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 11, 2016 0:46:35 GMT -5
My point was more to the fact that there's no real consensus on any issue at Georgetown (among the student at least). To say there is a general consensus among the students that "JT3 won't lead our team to any significant victory" presumes that more than 20% of the students really care about the men's BB program, which I doubt based on my experience and my communications with current undergrads. No real consensus? That seems to be overstating things. How so? Care to elaborate?
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Post by goyahoya69 on Feb 11, 2016 9:27:40 GMT -5
man, we've gone over this topic a million times already. imo, the only way we're ever going to get consistent, heavy attendance at games is we either: 1) become a perennial sweet 16 team, or 2) move games to mcdonough or offer free, accessible, and reliable transportation straight to the verizon center. i dont believe there is any other way.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 12, 2016 1:29:44 GMT -5
Win and people come. Lose and they don't. It really isn't more complicated than that.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 12, 2016 11:38:25 GMT -5
I think my reason for starting this thread was my case of advancing geezerdom. I really appreciate all the responses and think that they are almost all spot on. I guess my biggest concern is the opinion that lack of a "quality product" is keeping students away. Back in the my day (1964-68) students went to the games just to have fun, hang with their friends, and generally make fools of themselves. Believe me, the "product" was not attracting anyone. But I can see how the distance to Verizon and the lack of affordable, easy transportation plus the time spent getting to and from games may be keeping students away (although in my day a Friday night bball game usually started immediately after our last afternoon class and didn't end until Old Macs or The Tombs closed). I am also of the opinion that the old GU student body was made up of a lot more kids from low to middle income families. Tuition was fairly cheap (about $1,500 per semester) and many, like me, were the first in their families to attend college. We were good students in high school and serious about our education but were nowhere near the high achievers (and high income) students that attend today. The joke among my classmates is that when we complain that the high tuition would keep us from going to GU today one of my classmates will remind us that it wouldn't really be a problem since our SAT scores would have taken care of that. We studied hard but never felt that we should let school interfere with our education. I think we identified a lot more with sports teams in general and our college teams, especially bball, in particular. Finally, we also weren't facing the job market kids today are facing. That GU degree opened a lot of doors. The federal government did some serious hireing in the 1970's and we also weren't carrying huge college loan debt. So kids today may have a lot more on their minds than we did and may decide that the time spent at a basketball game could be better spent in the lab or library. Oh yeah, we also didn't have women on campus so hanging with the guys at a basketball game may have not been just a good option but our only option! Anyway, let's hope our "product' improves and our student attendance increases. GO HOYAS!
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 12, 2016 12:34:44 GMT -5
But I can see how the distance to Verizon and the lack of affordable, easy transportation plus the time spent getting to and from games may be keeping students away Speaking for the alumni of the 1980's and 1990's...well... 1. Verizon Center is all of three miles from campus. Three. Forty minutes by foot, 20 minutes by car, seven minutes via Metrorail out of Rosslyn. This isn't sitting in a rickety school bus ride on the road to Landover, without a restaurant or gas station within miles of the arena. 2. Lack of affordable transportation? Metrorail is $1.75 off-peak. Uber is less than $7.00. Cab fare, guessing under $10.00. 3. Time spent getting to games? Not an issue. Short, three word answer: They. Don't. Care.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 12, 2016 12:56:35 GMT -5
But I can see how the distance to Verizon and the lack of affordable, easy transportation plus the time spent getting to and from games may be keeping students away Speaking for the alumni of the 1980's and 1990's...well... 1. Verizon Center is all of three miles from campus. Three. Forty minutes by foot, 20 minutes by car, seven minutes via Metrorail out of Rosslyn. This isn't sitting in a rickety school bus ride on the road to Landover, without a restaurant or gas station within miles of the arena. 2. Lack of affordable transportation? Metrorail is $1.75 off-peak. Uber is less than $7.00. Cab fare, guessing under $10.00. 3. Time spent getting to games? Not an issue. What happened to the free transportation to the games of your time? Short, three word answer: They. Don't. Care. Build it (a winner, and by that I mean regular Sweet 16 participant, Top 10 team with a shot at the NCAA Championship) and they will come.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Feb 12, 2016 13:18:34 GMT -5
But I can see how the distance to Verizon and the lack of affordable, easy transportation plus the time spent getting to and from games may be keeping students away Speaking for the alumni of the 1980's and 1990's...well... 1. Verizon Center is all of three miles from campus. Three. Forty minutes by foot, 20 minutes by car, seven minutes via Metrorail out of Rosslyn. This isn't sitting in a rickety school bus ride on the road to Landover, without a restaurant or gas station within miles of the arena. 2. Lack of affordable transportation? Metrorail is $1.75 off-peak. Uber is less than $7.00. Cab fare, guessing under $10.00. 3. Time spent getting to games? Not an issue. Short, three word answer: They. Don't. Care. Given the option of (1) a free 35 minute bus ride from campus with other students in the bus to the arena vs. (2) walking across the bridge to Rosslyn and taking Metro with actual "real people" (i.e. not college students) -- considering the behaviors acceptable in each scenario, which do you think students would actually prefer? This is without even getting into the actual choice between watching on TV with a 30 rack that cost you as much as two beers at the Verizon Center that getting to will tack on an additional 90 minutes to the two hours you're spending watching the game.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 12, 2016 13:25:16 GMT -5
Build it (a winner, and by that I mean regular Sweet 16 participant, Top 10 team with a shot at the NCAA Championship) and they will come. Georgetown just has a soft fan base and has for years. Average attendance in the NCAA title year: 8,386. Meanwhile, Marquette is in year two of a rebuilding effort and still approaches 13,000 a game.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Feb 12, 2016 13:58:58 GMT -5
We're not good, no one cares about DePaul, there's a lot more to do in DC than Georgetown games when we're not good, and the Verizon Center isn't really convenient for students. Done.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 12, 2016 14:44:16 GMT -5
Build it (a winner, and by that I mean regular Sweet 16 participant, Top 10 team with a shot at the NCAA Championship) and they will come. Georgetown just has a soft fan base and has for years. Average attendance in the NCAA title year: 8,386. Meanwhile, Marquette is in year two of a rebuilding effort and still approaches 13,000 a game. That's an odd comparison. Why didn't you choose to use our attendance figures from 2008, 2010 or 2013?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 12, 2016 15:14:02 GMT -5
He chose the only team that ever won it all and which averaged just over 8,000. If that is not soft support...
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 12, 2016 15:32:09 GMT -5
He chose the only team that ever won it all and which averaged just over 8,000. If that is not soft support... Yeah, by his generation. My generation turned out about 11-12K a year (aka 2-3K more fans than Duke draws), including having enough demand to sell season tickets to students that were in the 400 level at Verizon. We averaged over 10K for 7 straight years under JT3 (and if it weren't for those DELETED at FGCU the streak would have made it at least another year). Anyway, we'd be in a lot better shape as a program if all the students during the 1980s had actually supported the program like the students from 05-06 through 2013 did. Since they clearly didn't take their studies as seriously as students from the last ten years do, I guess it was just too much of a hassle for them to drag themselves out of the Pub and actually go see all the NBA Hall of Famers that they were going to school with.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 12, 2016 15:40:59 GMT -5
Don't be bitter that you did not have the Pub. There was only one Hall of Famer in the DFW years. Finally, if you think it was a task to get to Verizon; try Landover.
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