kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 27, 2016 1:19:04 GMT -5
I'm in an uber on the way home. I left before the last TV timeout. I've had season tickets for twenty years and I've never left a game before the end. Today, I just couldn't take it any longer. If I decide not to renew my season tickets next year, it's not because I stopped loving my alma mater or my team. It will be because I can no longer stomach the garbage that is officiating in a Big East Georgetown game. It is no longer a sport when there isn't fair competition. I don't know what I watched tonight, but it wasn't basketball. Good thing you left n
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 27, 2016 1:20:33 GMT -5
I am soooo sorry Hoya Board for all the negativity. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa. LOL No you're not. You'll be back it next game.
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Jan 27, 2016 2:29:51 GMT -5
Still surprised we pulled that off.
Refs have screwed us a ton this year. I'm beyond frustrated.
Honestly think jt iii needs a little more jt Jr.
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Jan 27, 2016 2:32:45 GMT -5
Some somewhat quick thoughts:
1) Agree with FLHoya's general thoughts regarding refs (as I usually do with his commentary in general)
2) Peak is doing so damn close to the right thing. It is often brought up that instead of lazy threes hoisted up early in the shot clock, we need a guard who just drives to the paint and looks for a foul. Peak, despite his recent and much improved shooting stroke from outside, literally does just that. Sure, they are reckless, but you can tell in his head he wants to barrel in with the assumption (that has been ingrained this season) that you take your guy off the dribble and you will be fouled by the other team's big. If he can make a minor tweak to this, he won't foul so quickly out of games, and I don't see how he won't be at least among our top two scorers every night. Longer he can stay in, more open 3's he can take, and if he can remove just a tad of the 'wrecking ball' from his drives, he'll be taking a lot more free throws.
One more thing - I can't reiterate enough about how little of an expert I am on this, but from my untrained eye it looks like Peak's arc on his shot has gotten better. Here's to more comments about bad player development and JTIII's salary.
3) Refs again sucked tonight on both sides, but one of the rare times when I feel like they can actually be blamed.
4) Copeland looked better, in that he looked for other ways to make an impact. His defense was crucial during pressing, and was pretty good from the weakside all game. A major leap I am taking here - but if he just makes a little more of his open shots (and can take it off the dribble like, once, per game,) we are a different team.
5) On that note, I feel like our odds are looking better for tourney time. Which sounds great, but horrifies me in that we will enter the tournament (after reading more comments from people who understand basketball a hell of a lot better than I do - probably/possibly undeserved), we are setting ourselves up for a nice first round exit to a quick, rando guard, and at least 20 pages of insightful and well thought out commentary about how III can't get past the first round.
6) Somewhat related, I think the one thing III has usually if not always had is a defense that if not good, has improved. As FL has noted, we got lucky with some blatant shot missing tonight from Creighton. Disregarding those, their were some possessions tonight where our guards and forwards (Trey, notably) were able to move their hips and stay in front of their man off the dribble. When that happened, our defense looked great, usually resulting in a help defender block or just sputtering from Creighton - most teams would react the same way. This can be a very good if not great defense if that one, drastic, change could occur.
7) Play Kaleb more, and his occasional freshman offensive mistakes can be hidden by better offensive players. He can make up with it on the other end. Without looking at any numbers, on the offensive side his OReb % has to be among the highest on the team.
8) Been a Hayes hater in the past, so take this with a large grain of salt, but Trey seems to need to take more minutes from Hayes. Trey can't guard the actual big dogs who are actually offensive threats, which is where Jessie works in. Hayes should still start, but less minutes where he can focus more on hustle and not leaving his feet, I think, can help us.
9) Thanks to Creighton and DSR for helping us out.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 27, 2016 2:35:42 GMT -5
That last foul was so great -- get our best FT shooter to the line and foul out their quickest guy with 6 seconds left, so he can't do damage on their last play! I love how the coaches drew that one up ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) !! Agreed. Glad we didn't have a timeout and were forced to make a play. That said, Copeland looked like he had a hot potato in his hand when DSR passed him the ball.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 4:18:07 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 5:58:08 GMT -5
So here's what I'm gonna say about tonight: it was shockingly terrible. Sending the league rep up to the Stonewalls section at halftime to tell folks to tone it down was just the cherry on top, given that no one said anything that was 1/10th as vulgar as what you hear at every Maryland or WVU home game. Wait, what? They sent a league rep up into the stands? I definitely noticed the heavy security presence at the front of the student section late in the second half. Thought that was odd.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 27, 2016 7:52:01 GMT -5
I'm in an uber on the way home. I left before the last TV timeout. I've had season tickets for twenty years and I've never left a game before the end. Today, I just couldn't take it any longer. If I decide not to renew my season tickets next year, it's not because I stopped loving my alma mater or my team. It will be because I can no longer stomach the garbage that is officiating in a Big East Georgetown game. It is no longer a sport when there isn't fair competition. I don't know what I watched tonight, but it wasn't basketball. rambis, you now know what you have to do if GU is ever down before the last TV timeout. Thanks for taking one for the team!
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Post by michaeldm9 on Jan 27, 2016 8:25:04 GMT -5
I am soooo sorry Hoya Board for all the negativity. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa. LOL No you're not. You'll be back it next game. You right Hoping they win. And getting mad as hell when they don't
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 27, 2016 8:32:15 GMT -5
Not at all--you can't go six minutes every game with these second half scoring lulls. Not every opponent is going to cough up a hairball like Creighton did, and certainly not Providence, who is rolling right now. (And if Watson doesn't commit that fifth foul, he's taking the last shot and a whole lot better than Milliken did.) Yes, a must-win. But pretty soon they all are. This isn't meant as a shot at DFW; he's only the most recent person to talk about "scoring lulls." But it's disingenuous and non-analytical to talk about periods in the game when we don't have a "field goal," when -- in that time period -- we have a significant number of possessions end with us at the line. Isn't that a good thing, not a bad thing? It's true that from the 9:20 mark (L.J.'s dunk) to the 3:49 mark (an LJ fast break layup assisted nicely by DSR) we had no field goals. Between those field goals, we had ten possessions, but three of them ended with FT attempts (we made four of six). That's not efficient, but it's not like we had ten possessions that ended with us dribbling the ball off our feet out of bounds or passing around the perimeter, or what have you. If you simply include the bookend possessions that end the "drought" we had 5 out of 12 possessions end with at least one point. That still isn't great, but it's far from a narrative of futility. (I'd also note that included in the seven possessions that didn't result in a FG or FT were three possessions where (1) Jesse got called for a questionable offensive foul; (2) Mourning was called for a questionable offensive foul; and (3) Jesse was called for a completely phantom push in the back on the rebound, where he almost surely would have scored a FG. That only leaves four possessions to really analyze.) Basically, we had 5:30 minutes where we made a few bad decisions (a couple bad three-point attempts and maybe you could say one of the two offensive fouls was avoidable), a couple good decisions that didn't result in points (a good three-point attempts and a missed layup), some aggressive play that led to points at the line (3 possessions), and some horrific officiating. EDIT: I note, as well, that two of the three fouls on Creighton in that 5:30 were on Watson, so if you ascribe to the theory that Creighton had a significantly greater chance of scoring or drawing a foul on its final frantic possession with Watson in the game, those two fouls were particularly valuable.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 27, 2016 8:33:04 GMT -5
Great finish.
Lots of ugly moments.
Awful officiating that really hurt the Hoyas.
No quit for this team at the end.
Great moment to see III angry and having to be restrained. 100% correct reaction on that one. I am just somewhat sad that they did restrain him.
Please build on that amazing finish.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 27, 2016 8:33:50 GMT -5
By rule, any team playing us coming off a win is "rolling right now". My post was made prior to PC's finish with Xavier. I thought they had really turned the corner after the game at Villanova and that got squashed by Xavier. Friars are 1-3 in their last four home games, which makes no sense with the talent on that team. Not every team with a win has momentum. DePaul hasn't had significant momentum in a season since Joey Meyer was coaching. And here's a contrary view on officiating: the referees are calling what the rules committee has emphasized. If they don't make those calls, they get "evaluated" and then sent down to reffing America East games. The fault lies in a rules committee which has added 15-20 minutes to every game with needless stoppages in play.
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 27, 2016 8:38:06 GMT -5
Not at all--you can't go six minutes every game with these second half scoring lulls. Not every opponent is going to cough up a hairball like Creighton did, and certainly not Providence, who is rolling right now. (And if Watson doesn't commit that fifth foul, he's taking the last shot and a whole lot better than Milliken did.) Yes, a must-win. But pretty soon they all are. This isn't meant as a shot at DFW; he's only the most recent person to talk about "scoring lulls." But it's disingenuous and non-analytical to talk about periods in the game when we don't have a "field goal," when -- in that time period -- we have a significant number of possessions end with us at the line. Isn't that a good thing, not a bad thing? It's true that from the 9:20 mark (L.J.'s dunk) to the 3:49 mark (an LJ fast break layup assisted nicely by DSR) we had no field goals. Between those field goals, we had ten possessions, but three of them ended with FT attempts (we made four of six). That's not efficient, but it's not like we had ten possessions that ended with us dribbling the ball off our feet out of bounds or passing around the perimeter, or what have you. If you simply include the bookend possessions that end the "drought" we had 5 out of 12 possessions end with at least one point. That still isn't great, but it's far from a narrative of futility. (I'd also note that included in the seven possessions that didn't result in a FG or FT were three possessions where (1) Jesse got called for a questionable offensive foul; (2) Mourning was called for a questionable offensive foul; and (3) Jesse was called for a completely phantom push in the back on the rebound, where he almost surely would have scored a FG. That only leaves four possessions to really analyze.) Basically, we had 5:30 minutes where we made a few bad decisions (a couple bad three-point attempts and maybe you could say one of the two offensive fouls was avoidable), a couple good decisions that didn't result in points (a good three-point attempts and a missed layup), some aggressive play that led to points at the line (3 possessions), and some horrific officiating. Going without a FG isn't necessarily a problem, as you pointed out. But then there are times when we literally don't score at all and generally look awful. See the last four and half minutes against UConn.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 27, 2016 8:41:22 GMT -5
This isn't meant as a shot at DFW; he's only the most recent person to talk about "scoring lulls." But it's disingenuous and non-analytical to talk about periods in the game when we don't have a "field goal," when -- in that time period -- we have a significant number of possessions end with us at the line. Isn't that a good thing, not a bad thing? It's true that from the 9:20 mark (L.J.'s dunk) to the 3:49 mark (an LJ fast break layup assisted nicely by DSR) we had no field goals. Between those field goals, we had ten possessions, but three of them ended with FT attempts (we made four of six). That's not efficient, but it's not like we had ten possessions that ended with us dribbling the ball off our feet out of bounds or passing around the perimeter, or what have you. If you simply include the bookend possessions that end the "drought" we had 5 out of 12 possessions end with at least one point. That still isn't great, but it's far from a narrative of futility. (I'd also note that included in the seven possessions that didn't result in a FG or FT were three possessions where (1) Jesse got called for a questionable offensive foul; (2) Mourning was called for a questionable offensive foul; and (3) Jesse was called for a completely phantom push in the back on the rebound, where he almost surely would have scored a FG. That only leaves four possessions to really analyze.) Basically, we had 5:30 minutes where we made a few bad decisions (a couple bad three-point attempts and maybe you could say one of the two offensive fouls was avoidable), a couple good decisions that didn't result in points (a good three-point attempts and a missed layup), some aggressive play that led to points at the line (3 possessions), and some horrific officiating. Going without a FG isn't necessarily a problem, as you pointed out. But then there are times when we literally don't score at all and generally look awful. See the last four and half minutes against UConn. No question. I'm not saying there aren't. But this really wasn't one of them. And the entire notion of "haven't scored a FG in ____" is meaningless when there are FT attempts in there.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 27, 2016 9:07:57 GMT -5
IMO, the scoring FG stat also speaks to how easy teams get baskets. That's why broadcasts use it, too. That is a real concern for us and has been for a while. We simply just don't get lay ups. It's unfortunate and I fear it will ultimately be the thing that hurts us the most. That's why, like everyone else, I'm still firmly in the Peak camp. He needs to keep driving to the basket. Keep working, LJ. It will come.
I will also say that DSR has learned smartly that at the end of the game, guards with the ball get respect from officials. Hell, kemba walker won a championship based solely on this approach.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 27, 2016 9:14:44 GMT -5
By rule, any team playing us coming off a win is "rolling right now". My post was made prior to PC's finish with Xavier. I thought they had really turned the corner after the game at Villanova and that got squashed by Xavier. Friars are 1-3 in their last four home games, which makes no sense with the talent on that team. Not every team with a win has momentum. DePaul hasn't had significant momentum in a season since Joey Meyer was coaching. And here's a contrary view on officiating: the referees are calling what the rules committee has emphasized. If they don't make those calls, they get "evaluated" and then sent down to reffing America East games. The fault lies in a rules committee which has added 15-20 minutes to every game with needless stoppages in play. My biggest issue is that they seem to calling a number of moving screens on us, but they almost never call holding on the cutting. I think they need to let more of that go. You could call a moving screen on every single play.
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gunny
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Post by gunny on Jan 27, 2016 9:29:03 GMT -5
I thought that the Hoyas could never come back from a big deficit late in games, at least that is what the narrative on some of the posters who I do not see posting after this victory say.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 27, 2016 9:58:24 GMT -5
Great win with a comeback like the old days when a 10-pt deficit with 5 minutes left was nothing! Remember when we were down 8 with 50 seconds left in the Carrier Dome? Unfortunately that thief devendorf hit some unconscious shots in OT...
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 27, 2016 10:08:02 GMT -5
My post was made prior to PC's finish with Xavier. I thought they had really turned the corner after the game at Villanova and that got squashed by Xavier. Friars are 1-3 in their last four home games, which makes no sense with the talent on that team. Not every team with a win has momentum. DePaul hasn't had significant momentum in a season since Joey Meyer was coaching. And here's a contrary view on officiating: the referees are calling what the rules committee has emphasized. If they don't make those calls, they get "evaluated" and then sent down to reffing America East games. The fault lies in a rules committee which has added 15-20 minutes to every game with needless stoppages in play. My biggest issue is that they seem to calling a number of moving screens on us, but they almost never call holding on the cutting. I think they need to let more of that go. You could call a moving screen on every single play. Amen. To call those couple of moving screens on us on those plays was incredibly random and unfair. Either a tiny bit of movement is a foul every time, or it is never a foul. Most guys setting screens are not in statue mode.
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HoyaChris
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Post by HoyaChris on Jan 27, 2016 10:33:10 GMT -5
I took the opportunity to rewatch the game and took copious notes. My conclusions: If anything, the refereeing was worse than I thought. Upon careful review, Georgetown had at least 19 calls (fouls called/not called and other violations called/not called) go against it, while, generously, Creighton had room for maybe four complaints. Moreover, two of Creighton’s potential complaints – both taking place in the final two minutes – have mitigating circumstances. Interestingly, 10 of the questionable calls from a Hoya standpoint took place in the first half, but none of those calls was ridiculous. While watching in real time, I had the sense in the first half that we weren’t getting a lot of calls but that the calls or non-calls were not egregious.
The second half was a different story. There were very clearly 7 ridiculous calls that went against the Hoyas. In order: -Zierden, caught well under the basket while a Xavier shot is in the air, launches himself out of bounds and is rewarded with a foul on a Hoya. -DSR is called for an offensive foul with his arm maybe 3 inches from his body. Against this standard, Grayson Allen would have fouled out in the first five minutes of our game against Duke. -Groselle clears out the Hoya defender under the basket with 6 feet of moving screen, allowing an amazingly open layup – no call. -Jesse is called for a moving pick because, apparently, Watson is small. -Jesse’s fifth foul, about which nothing more needs to be said. -LJ’s box out of Cole “contort your body like you’ve been shot” Huff. -Trey Mourning is called for a moving screen – minus the movement – complete with another Zierden flop.
One can only imagine how frustrated Jessie must have felt. He fouled out in 10 minutes of playing time and should have reasonably expected to have had only one or two fouls based on his play.
In watching the game in real time, I thought that the refs had maybe put away their whistles during the comeback. After further review I don’t think that I was initially correct. First, both LJ’s and Kaleb’s steals were clean. And Marcus’s block of the last shot was clearly not a foul. That leaves two calls with which Creighton might take issue. -The out of bounds call on DSR’s free throw miss. Initially I thought that it went out on us and that we had caught a break. In rewatching it 5 or 6 times it would appear to have been a true 50/50 ball. -The final foul call on Watson. There was very clearly a foul on the play, but that foul was committed before Watson touched DSR. Obviously it helped us that Watson was not on the floor for the final 6 seconds. Other observations. Xavier went 4 for 21 for three. Of their 17 misses, I only count 7as being open 3s. We went 6 for 21 with 10 open misses.
I can’t remember when I have ever seen a team so happy – and so happy with each other – after a mid-season win.
Our second half team defense on Watson was quite good. Yes he got to the rim a few times but we turned him over a bunch.
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