dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Nov 22, 2015 16:55:40 GMT -5
Another game that just ended at the wrong moment for the hoyas. After watching last several years, it it bad that I like losing these games over winning some unwatchable games circa Otto porter? Just as a basketball fan these games have been so intriguing...the amount if minutes our freshmen and sophomores have needed to play the first game and then three top 25 teams is amazing...it just seems at times we have 20 guys willing to jump in and play with good energy and execution. DSR - still looks indecisive out there.and just not gonna get to create his shot when he wants to. I think both coach and him realize on this team he won't need to take over, if they move the ball everyone is a threat (compared to the lubick, Bowen, Hopkins years). He's gonna get a lot of good looks when we get aggressive, he's just sometimes driving and not able to find teammates just yet...things will open up. Have a feeling Kaleb sees more minutes especially at expense if tre...just need to give him a bit of time to develop so we have options at guard. I think as the team learns to work around him, he'll get in a groove.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2015 16:56:57 GMT -5
1. Grayson will be figured out. 2. GU's defense will get better and better. 3. GU played the game more conducive to the types of players they have. 4. Mourning will be another Sims / Hayes but quicker. 5. GU is a top-25 team. 6. The big men have been open a lot but the guards / small forwards seem to want to take shots or don't fully trust. 7. as i said Hayes has to stop trying to guard smaller players out of his area - then he'll be 2nd or 3rd team all-BE 8. GU will be difficult for teams later. Why would he be figured out. 6-4. 6-6.6 wingspan. 39 inch vertical. McDonald's All American. McDonald's All American Dunk Champion. Great handles. Can get to the hole and finish. Great mechanics on his 3pt shot and free throws. Basically single handedly kept Duke in the national championship game when they were down to Wisconsin and Okafor was on the bench with 4 fouls. The kid is really good. I will say this though. You take that kid away from Duke's team this year and the rest of their cast is not that good. They really are heavily reliant on him.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,476
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Post by beenaround on Nov 22, 2015 16:57:43 GMT -5
From what I've seen this year, this may be the deepest, and best outside shooting team we've seen under JT3, with possible exception of 07/-8. Still need a lot of improvement on the glass..Govan highly skilled on offense, not the best at blocking out or securing boards.
I have not been a huge Peak fan. However, was amazed that it was he and not DSR handling the ball and driving to draw fouls in the final minutes. Thought he looked great and more under control, than I have seen. Kaleb has looked wise beyond his years, and long and disruptive.
I join some of the others, who have been somewhat disappointed with DSR. For some reason, I was expecting/hoping he would be a legit All American candidate his senior year, maybe averaging 20 ppg. He has not improved from last year, and I must accept what some have written. He is a very good college guard, probably not a great one...which can fit in fine considering all the talent here.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2015 16:58:27 GMT -5
What are you people expecting? If you think this game was lost on offense, you're absolutely crazy. I wouldn't say it was lost on offense, but as a rule you win the game if you score more points than your opponent so yes, having DSR play at his best would likely have won all 3 of the games we lost, no matter how poor our defense was. Especially considering the margins that we've lost by. This is a guy who we all know can go for 30 and hit an array of shots, he seems to do that better off the ball than when he has to facilitate the offense. What's wrong with wanting to put the guy in a better position to succeed? He's not a BE POY playing the way he is, he's just another guy on the squad. We need the BE POY. Look at Grayson Allen. He virtually disappears when forced to play the point. That's why Coach K had to go with the freshman pg. Play him off the ball and he excels. They had him at point this game when they went huge and made their run with the 1-3-1. He seemed to do fine.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 16:58:54 GMT -5
Can I just say I hate these new rules. Thought the refs let plumlee get away with two fouls that would have been his 5th. The ball off morning could have been a foul as I'm pretty sure he got hit in the face, but def wasn't off mornings knee. That said, you could probably find a few calls that went our way too. Which is why I'll just say I hate the new rules. (We didn't get the calls on our cutters today btw) The big run in th second half killed us and then rebounding and fts. Simple. If we continue to play like this though. We will be fine. I don't think it's a gaurentee that we continue to play like this though, unfortunately. The cheapshot by Grayson Allen on LJ Peak should have been a tech. Very dangerous, sneaky play that could have hurt LJ severely. Just watched it again. After the review, one of the refs went over and talked to Allen. I can only imagine what was said: "Everyone in the arena knows that was a dirty, garbage play. So don't do it again. If anyone does it to you, I'll make sure it's a flagrant."
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2015 17:01:07 GMT -5
What are you people expecting? If you think this game was lost on offense, you're absolutely crazy. I wouldn't say it was lost on offense, but as a rule you win the game if you score more points than your opponent so yes, having DSR play at his best would likely have won all 3 of the games we lost, no matter how poor our defense was. Especially considering the margins that we've lost by. This is a guy who we all know can go for 30 and hit an array of shots, he seems to do that better off the ball than when he has to facilitate the offense. What's wrong with wanting to put the guy in a better position to succeed? He's not a BE POY playing the way he is, he's just another guy on the squad. We need the BE POY. Not sure why you are putting it all on him. Peak has missed a bunch of free throws and one and ones at the end of these games as has Bradley Hayes. Alot of our freshman and new players have made mistakes here and there at end of games that add up.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2015 17:02:48 GMT -5
The cheapshot by Grayson Allen on LJ Peak should have been a tech. Very dangerous, sneaky play that could have hurt LJ severely. Just watched it again. After the review, one of the refs went over and talked to Allen. I can only imagine what was said: "Everyone in the arena knows that was a dirty, garbage play. So don't do it again. If anyone does it to you, I'll make sure it's a flagrant." That's the duke way. Ref, "normally that would be a foul but since you play for Duke and you are Grayson Allen, I'll just give you a warning. Bad Graysone Allen, don't do it again". Really could have been a turning point in the game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 17:03:08 GMT -5
Outside of the assists numbers early in my opinion DSR's play has left much to be desired but we know he won't shoot this poorly all season.
Ike needs to be our best player in order for us to reach our potential though....
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Nov 22, 2015 17:03:55 GMT -5
Didn't see the game, but just reading the comments, I think this season shows that we play up or down to the opponent (except maybe Wisco). When DSR gets his shooting shoes on from long distance, I think we would start winning these games. We are DEEP. A different combination of players having great games. When Paul and Tre return, we will be REALLY DEEP! And yes, we have to rebound better on the defensive side, especially at the ends of games.
Whether people like it or not, we ARE the best 1-3 team.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 17:04:33 GMT -5
I wouldn't say it was lost on offense, but as a rule you win the game if you score more points than your opponent so yes, having DSR play at his best would likely have won all 3 of the games we lost, no matter how poor our defense was. Especially considering the margins that we've lost by. This is a guy who we all know can go for 30 and hit an array of shots, he seems to do that better off the ball than when he has to facilitate the offense. What's wrong with wanting to put the guy in a better position to succeed? He's not a BE POY playing the way he is, he's just another guy on the squad. We need the BE POY. Not sure why you are putting it all on him. Peak has missed a bunch of free throws and one and ones at the end of these games as has Bradley Hayes. Alot of our freshman and new players have made mistakes here and there at end of games that add up. None of those guys are returning All Conference is the reason... He will be fine though
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kettlehill
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,156
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Post by kettlehill on Nov 22, 2015 17:16:02 GMT -5
As to DSR discussion: this team will prosper when the offense is spread around as it has in the last two games. Which means that won't average 20ppg (though he could); if he does, we won't be very good. Though he hasn't shot well so far, I like the way he realizes that there are other weapons and tries his best to cultivate them. Also: who do you want on the line at the end of a tight game? DSR gets my vote
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 22, 2015 17:20:59 GMT -5
What are you people expecting? If you think this game was lost on offense, you're absolutely crazy. I wouldn't say it was lost on offense, but as a rule you win the game if you score more points than your opponent so yes, having DSR play at his best would likely have won all 3 of the games we lost, no matter how poor our defense was. Especially considering the margins that we've lost by. This is a guy who we all know can go for 30 and hit an array of shots, he seems to do that better off the ball than when he has to facilitate the offense. What's wrong with wanting to put the guy in a better position to succeed? He's not a BE POY playing the way he is, he's just another guy on the squad. We need the BE POY. Look at Grayson Allen. He virtually disappears when forced to play the point. That's why Coach K had to go with the freshman pg. Play him off the ball and he excels. Expecting anyone to play at their best every game is an unreasonable expectation, pretty much by definition. He's shot poorly, but he hasn't played that poorly -- you need to judge players by more than point in a game. You bring up the PG thing, but I really haven't seen him play much there in the last two games -- Peak has been bringing the ball up. I fail to really see a difference, but I will also note that's not what people have been bitching about.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,652
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Post by guru on Nov 22, 2015 17:34:42 GMT -5
How the refs don't call at least a flagrant 1 on that Grayson Allen play is beyond me. He shoved an airborne player into the stanchion. That's an extremely dangerous play and an ejection would not have been out of order. That play could have changed the momentum pretty drastically.
But really we lost the game with our complete inability to execute the offense against the 1-3-1 zone. Great coaching move by K. We are close and we look like a pretty good team. I think they will be all right but this game and the Maryland game were really big missed opportunities.
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Post by bicentennial on Nov 22, 2015 17:41:14 GMT -5
If you told me last year that Tre and Paul White would be out for our games against the Maryland and Duke and that we would only lose by 4 and 2 points, I would say you are smoking something illegal!. In both these games we would have won without the ref's helping the other team. Trey Mourning gave us some good minutes, Govan is going to be a Beast, Derrickson is already excellent and will get better once he has the hand strength to hold onto the rebounds that are getting knocked out of his hands. Johnson is going to be a major player! Copeland is turning into the player we all hope he will be. We are very close to not losing very many more games! go Hoyas!
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2015 17:44:16 GMT -5
How the refs don't call at least a flagrant 1 on that Grayson Allen play is beyond me. He shoved an airborne player into the stanchion. That's an extremely dangerous play and an ejection would not have been out of order. That play could have changed the momentum pretty drastically. But really we lost the game with our complete inability to execute the offense against the 1-3-1 zone. Great coaching move by K. We are close and we look like a pretty good team. I think they will be all right but this game and the Maryland game were really big missed opportunities. Well yeah if Grayson Allen gets ejected they lose. I have no doubt about that especially with Plumlee and Jefferson fouling out.
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Post by detmut on Nov 22, 2015 17:53:40 GMT -5
i'm sure if Grayson would have stomped Peak in the chest, he would have been ejected
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joey0403p
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,586
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Post by joey0403p on Nov 22, 2015 17:53:57 GMT -5
I was at the arena so didn't see all the angles, and only saw the replay on the big screen. But I didn't think the Allen play was a flagrant.
He fouled him for sure. But not sure it was a "push of an airborn player" thought his hand just extended as peak was falling outta bounds.
I know that isn't popular at all here. Just how I saw it though.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Nov 22, 2015 17:57:01 GMT -5
I wouldn't say it was lost on offense, but as a rule you win the game if you score more points than your opponent so yes, having DSR play at his best would likely have won all 3 of the games we lost, no matter how poor our defense was. Especially considering the margins that we've lost by. This is a guy who we all know can go for 30 and hit an array of shots, he seems to do that better off the ball than when he has to facilitate the offense. What's wrong with wanting to put the guy in a better position to succeed? He's not a BE POY playing the way he is, he's just another guy on the squad. We need the BE POY. Look at Grayson Allen. He virtually disappears when forced to play the point. That's why Coach K had to go with the freshman pg. Play him off the ball and he excels. Expecting anyone to play at their best every game is an unreasonable expectation, pretty much by definition. He's shot poorly, but he hasn't played that poorly -- you need to judge players by more than point in a game. You bring up the PG thing, but I really haven't seen him play much there in the last two games -- Peak has been bringing the ball up. I fail to really see a difference, but I will also note that's not what people have been bitching about. I'm not bitching about anything to be honest. I like the kid! I want him to do well and his play has some room for improvement. I don't think anyone can argue that. We all know what he's capable of and IMO he would do better off the ball not as a facilitator. Maybe it doesn't matter and he's just in a shooting slump but given he never quite reached the expectations we had of him last year either, I think there is slightly more to it, i.e. his role in the offense. That's the only point in trying to make.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2015 18:00:03 GMT -5
I was at the arena so didn't see all the angles, and only saw the replay on the big screen. But I didn't think the Allen play was a flagrant. He fouled him for sure. But not sure it was a "push of an airborn player" thought his hand just extended as peak was falling outta bounds. I know that isn't popular at all here. Just how I saw it though. He elbowed/forearm shivered Peak's back just as Peak was going up. It was more than just a light touch by the hand. Kind of a sneaky old school move but it should have been a flagrant.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 22, 2015 18:00:00 GMT -5
I was at the arena so didn't see all the angles, and only saw the replay on the big screen. But I didn't think the Allen play was a flagrant. He fouled him for sure. But not sure it was a "push of an airborn player" thought his hand just extended as peak was falling outta bounds. I know that isn't popular at all here. Just how I saw it though. The flagrant aspect was that the foul call was on the perimeter -- the play was long over when Grayson shoved him while in the air. I imagine the officials gave leeway because perhaps they couldn't hear the whistle. But the whistle blew four or so steps before the shove.
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