kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 16, 2015 13:50:13 GMT -5
Rest assured that these two formerly virtually anonymous buildings will get new names pronto because of all the manufactured outrage. They must be renamed immediately to satisfy the protesters. Book it. Those buildings were virtually anonymous until Mulledy Hall became part of a highly-coveted, application-only residence hall complex known as "The Spirit of Georgetown Residential Academy." That students would be more interested in the history of the name on the place where they might live (and that is intended to represent "The Spirit" of the University) rather than a building no one was permitted to enter for around a decade is not really surprising. Manufactured outrage indeed. So, students are also living in the John Main Center and the McSherry building?
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Nov 16, 2015 14:25:29 GMT -5
Those buildings were virtually anonymous until Mulledy Hall became part of a highly-coveted, application-only residence hall complex known as "The Spirit of Georgetown Residential Academy." That students would be more interested in the history of the name on the place where they might live (and that is intended to represent "The Spirit" of the University) rather than a building no one was permitted to enter for around a decade is not really surprising. Manufactured outrage indeed. So, students are also living in the John Main Center and the McSherry building? Is that some sort of argument? McSherry is tied to Mulledy. Research regarding one turns up the other. Both had buildings named after them on campus. Neither is worthy of a place of honor on campus. If you are going to raise one as an issue, you can probably raise the other at the same time.
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SFOHoya
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Post by SFOHoya on Apr 16, 2016 10:15:32 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 16, 2016 16:42:47 GMT -5
Boy the Times is really on top of news these days...
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 16, 2016 18:20:58 GMT -5
Vadi, there's more to the Times article than just a regurgitation of the on-campus protests.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 16, 2016 18:55:31 GMT -5
Vadi, there's more to the Times article than just a regurgitation of the on-campus protests. I know. Just some knee jerk revulsion toward the Times, only exacerbated by the reparations angle of the story.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 16, 2016 19:08:43 GMT -5
Vadi, there's more to the Times article than just a regurgitation of the on-campus protests. I know. Just some knee jerk revulsion toward the Times, only exacerbated by the reparations angle of the story. I know. . .you would have preferred that the story ran in the Courier Times.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 16, 2016 20:38:21 GMT -5
I know. Just some knee jerk revulsion toward the Times, only exacerbated by the reparations angle of the story. I know. . .you would have preferred that the story ran in the Courier Times. Something like that...
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 16, 2016 20:46:11 GMT -5
Yikes. Meant the Courier Post. Still in shock after watching the Matt Harvey meltdown in Cleveland.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 29, 2016 19:32:35 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 14, 2016 11:32:39 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 15, 2016 4:06:11 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 23, 2016 8:08:10 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 12, 2016 16:34:36 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jul 12, 2016 23:21:51 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 13, 2016 8:55:40 GMT -5
Another article that misses the mark. Again. Once again, Georgetown University DID NOT sell slaves because it did not own any. This was a decision by the Jesuit order and, yes, there was (and is) a difference.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 13, 2016 9:16:57 GMT -5
DFW:
You are exactly correct on this point. That type of subtlety and distinction is lost on the average " journalist". Not really a surprise, given how many of them are from Newhouse.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jul 13, 2016 18:45:16 GMT -5
Another article that misses the mark. Again. Once again, Georgetown University DID NOT sell slaves because it did not own any. This was a decision by the Jesuit order and, yes, there was (and is) a difference. I agree that it's a dumb conflation that journalists should not make, but from a moral perspective, it's largely a distinction without a difference, given that the university was essentially an operating arm of the Jesuit Province, with their leadership (Mulledy included) going back and forth between the two. If Disney does something wrong in order to benefit ESPN, and they knew about it, then ESPN is still implicated, even if Disney is the ultimate authority. It's not like the university refused the money, you know?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 13, 2016 20:18:27 GMT -5
I agree that it's a dumb conflation that journalists should not make, but from a moral perspective, it's largely a distinction without a difference, given that the university was essentially an operating arm of the Jesuit Province, with their leadership (Mulledy included) going back and forth between the two. If Disney does something wrong in order to benefit ESPN, and they knew about it, then ESPN is still implicated, even if Disney is the ultimate authority. It's not like the university refused the money, you know? That's a false comparison, in that Georgetown University and the Jesuit order were distinct--if it were not, it would be a seminary instead of a college, and that is why the 1815 congressional charter is important: "to admit any of the students belonging to said College, or other person meriting academical honors, to any degree in the faculties, arts, sciences, and liberal professions, to which persons are usually admitted in other Colleges or Universities of the United States." No seminary would (or does) need such approval to operate. Comparing the University to a division of Disney is a poor analogy. A public company acquired ESPN from Getty Oil and could sell it tomorrow if it wished. The Jesuits didn't acquire Georgetown inasmuch as the Corporation was a self-selecting group that stayed inside the order for 150 years. And by the way, the Corporation still owns Georgetown University, even if the Jesuits don't make up all five members anymore. The sin of misattribution is particularly troubling. Without going into a story that has been in the public domain for over 150 years and only now is subject of this administrative apologia, an important point: Rev. McSherry did not act on behalf of Georgetown, nor of the Province--he (and more accurately, his successor) acted on behalf of the Superior General who told the Baltimore province to end the practice. And they did. But in 1830's America, in a segregated Maryland, freeing slaves outright might have led to a public uprising, which is why the slaves were sold not on the open market, but quietly to Catholics in Louisiana who offered equitable treatment under their care, which proved not to be the case. Another misattribution: Georgetown was the beneficiary of the sale. Not entirely true. Of the $115,000 in proceeds, just 18 percent ($17,000) went to pay off debts incurred by the Jesuits on behalf of the College--the amount was not pocketed by the school and did not "save" the College as some writers have extrapolated. (FWIW, $8,000 of the total went to a pension fund for the Archbishop of Baltimore, yet we do not see Cardinal O'Brien being the subject of accusatory pieces in the New York Times. The remaining sum of $90,000 went back to the Jesuit order in formation efforts in the province.) There is a huge difference between being the beneficiary of the sale versus being culpable in that sale. This is something the media (and some within Georgetown) seem unwilling to acknowledge or distinguish, or merely that it doesn't tell a kind of story it wants to tell.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jul 13, 2016 22:20:18 GMT -5
Sounds like you have much deeper insight than the historians who have been working with the university on this - and who have direct access to the archival records. You should ring up Father Collins and offer your findings. Seriously. Either way, someone will leave the engagement profoundly educated.
Universities do make for a more interesting story than many other American institutions, none of which escaped some connection to or benefit from slavery at that time. That explains a lot of the media angle. I don't fully understand your point about the Corporation and the Jesuits. Yes, the University and the Province were not the exact same thing, just as Catholic University and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops are not the same thing, and Johnson & Johnson isn't the same thing as its constituent companies, and Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu is not the same thing as Deloitte US, and so on and so forth. The relationship between them was nonetheless a constituent one - their finances, governance, etc. were very much intermingled.
None of it changes the fact that once and future leaders of the university, acting in a role of even greater authority that included oversight of the university, acted on the demand to get rid of the slaves by selling them (rather than, say, shipping them off to the good brothers in Canada) and used the money to pay off university debts. This was an act that earned them widespread opprobrium from their Jesuit peers in their own day, and it more than merits continued reflection and commemoration.
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