kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 13, 2015 15:51:48 GMT -5
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Nov 13, 2015 15:59:53 GMT -5
So if I point out acts of racism that occur in other random settings does that counter your point of 'silliness' that occurs in other places?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 13, 2015 16:08:36 GMT -5
So if I point out acts of racism that occur in other random settings does that counter your point of 'silliness' that occurs in other places? If they're actual acts of racism, feel free to point them out. "All lives matter" is not racist. Remembering 9/11 is not racist: Minnesota Student Assoc. Rejects Moment of Recognition for 9/11Maybe if Georgetown changed the name from "Mulledy Hall" to "Mulledy Safe Space" all the aggrieved would be happy?
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 13, 2015 16:10:14 GMT -5
This was a rep of the institution. And therein lies the problem--Thomas Mulledy was not acting as the president of Georgetown College, but as the Provincial of the Maryland Province, answerable only to the Superior General and Pope Gregory XVI. This was a decision regarding slaves owned by Jesuits, not by the College, but this too gets murky because the College and the order were very intertwined. The College was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Provincial, so to speak. Mulledy was cited by Rome not for having sold the slaves but in redirecting funds to keep the College from going insolvent--but again, this is where the Rector - President - Provincial issue gets even murkier. Rome had directed the slaves to be sold, McSherry set the wheels in motion and died before he could sell them, and Mulledy took the money and kept the college up and running instead of putting it to the intended use--ironically, to educate other Jesuits. The point that the millenials fail to grasp (and let's be fair, the faculty and administrators don't quite have a handle on it either) is the confluence of the College, the Order, and the Church in this decision. He wasn't going to repatriate the slaves (in 1830's Washington, that was grounds for imprisonment and the real threat of civil unrest) and he was not going to disobey the directive of his past provincial, much less Rome. So, this question follows: what should he have done, and what were the consequences of those actions? With all due respect, I'm not sure the source you provided supports some of your assertions. According to the book you cited, McSherry, as the Provincial, did consider repatriation of the slaves to Liberia and even entered into secret negotiations with the American Colonization Society which was a driving force behind the movement. Unfortunately, the page that presumably discusses how and why those negotiations fell apart is not included in the preview. (Perhaps someone has access to a hard copy?) In addition, it appears that it was McSherry who requested the authority to sell the slaves from Roothaan (Superior General). Therefore, this was not a top down decision from Rome that had to be obeyed, but rather a specific request by McSherry that was granted by the higher ups. That is very different. In fact, Roothaan only appears to have agreed to the request (over various objections) with six conditions including that the slaves be able to continue practicing Catholicism with access to priests (and that these be a condition of any bill of sale), all sales would be direct and not through intermediary brokers, that families would not be split up, and that slaves whose age or health prevented sale or transport would not be sold. There was no stipulation that profit or economic gain be made. Thereafter, McSherry appears to have fallen ill in 1837 before he could execute this authority, and Mulledy took over as the Provincial. He sold the slaves to plantations in Louisiana. He appears to have been afraid that some of the Jesuits who opposed the sale would attempt to help slaves escape, and therefore arrived at the plantations, unannounced, accompanied by the sheriff to confiscate as many slaves as possible. He was right to be suspicious, as several Jesuits did in fact encourage and assist some of the slaves in escaping and avoiding transport. In the ensuing chaos several families were separated. Mulledy then spent a large portion of the money gained from the sales on servicing debts he had accrued in construction at Georgetown (including Mulledy Hall) which left him unable to provide the financial contributions toward the continued religious devotion of the sold slaves (as conditioned by Roothaan). In short, it appears, based on the source you provided, that McSherry and Mulledy sought authority to sell which they conditionally received. They then sold the slaves, but were unable to uphold any of the conditions of the sale imposed by Roothaan in granting them permission.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 13, 2015 16:34:04 GMT -5
In short, it appears, based on the source you provided, that McSherry and Mulledy sought authority to sell which they conditionally received. They then sold the slaves, but were unable to uphold any of the conditions of the sale imposed by Roothaan in granting them permission. Sounds right. My point is that these decisions were more about these men in their role as provincial than on behalf of a college.
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blueeagle
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Post by blueeagle on Nov 13, 2015 16:40:01 GMT -5
I appreciate the reply, Cambridge, because it underscores my main point. You stated the need for clarification, and I hopefully, provided it to you. The conversation continued because the rhetoric, though passionate, was tempered, respectful, and purposeful. I am most aggrieved by the events at Yale. The students' response to the e-mail sent by the Resident Master (which was wonderfully crafted and naunced), went from zero to eleven on the outrage scale. The conversation ended before it could even begin because the students' outrage eclipsed any chance of dialogue.
I think most on this board (including yourself) have already conceded that the student protest at Georgetown grew in response to the events in Mizzou and Yale. I did not say that this lack of originality "invalidates" their concerns and their right to demonstrate. I was making the point that their actions were catalyzed by the actions of others with no connection to Georgetown rather than in response to negative actions by the Georgetown administration.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 13, 2015 19:04:15 GMT -5
Most of the demands seem pretty reasonable. Diversity training is a good idea for any organization. While I personally think it is silly to apply current morality to people who lived hundreds of years ago in terms of evaluating them (not their actions, that's fair game), it's also pretty clear that Mulledy and McSherry are neither particularly important Georgetown presidents nor alive today. So renaming seems fine. And the endowment for a chair seems reasonable, though I have to wonder who gets to determine what a "black identifying professor" means.
I don't think you should have to wait for something bad to happen to effect change, but I do admit that it is interesting that they are using precipitating events at other universities. I'm not sure if that makes it look smart or silly, really, from an outside viewpoint.
I will also throw out that while I understand and believe in the effect of what people call "micro-aggressions" that phrase is absolutely awful for a number of reasons and doesn't help anything.
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Post by HometownHoya on Nov 13, 2015 20:25:44 GMT -5
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Nov 14, 2015 16:39:23 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 14, 2015 19:36:28 GMT -5
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Nov 15, 2015 9:58:53 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what the Committee recommends in terms of the ultimate names of the two buildings. These placeholders are fine for a year, but have nothing to do with Georgetown's history. Interestingly, the two most important African-Americans in Georgetown's history (Healy and Thompson) already have buildings on campus named after them. I'm sure there will be many good ideas. One possible suggestion: Professor Francis E. Kearns. Kearns was denied tenure and fired from Georgetown for his outspoken support for civil rights and criticism of the University for insufficiently embracing the movement. I have no idea what he did after Georgetown, but honoring him would emphasize both Georgetown's commitment to civil rights and free thought and expression. idnc.library.illinois.edu/cgi-bin/illinois?a=d&d=HYA19641217.2.1#
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Nov 15, 2015 10:14:59 GMT -5
Any chance someone cuts a large enough check to rename these buildings, or is that too much to ask on a campus full of New Souths and Village As?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 15, 2015 10:24:10 GMT -5
Perhaps "Tempest in a Teapot" Hall and " Mountain out of a Molehill" Hall.
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Nov 15, 2015 11:24:45 GMT -5
It would be great to find donors, but from all public appearances, Georgetown still hasn't found a donor for the new dorm currently under construction (or for Villages A or C). I'd like to make sure those are named first. Just embarrassing.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 15, 2015 11:36:06 GMT -5
It would be great to find donors, but from all public appearances, Georgetown still hasn't found a donor for the new dorm currently under construction (or for Villages A or C). I'd like to make sure those are named first. Just embarrassing. Rest assured that these two formerly virtually anonymous buildings will get new names pronto because of all the manufactured outrage. They must be renamed immediately to satisfy the protesters. Book it.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 16, 2015 10:48:01 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 16, 2015 11:46:13 GMT -5
So if I point out acts of racism that occur in other random settings does that counter your point of 'silliness' that occurs in other places? Another place: 3 University of Kansas student leaders called on to resign"Inclusion and belonging training?" What does that even mean? At least the KU students are being original, with a white student going on a hunger strike (a former student at that).
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Nov 16, 2015 11:56:53 GMT -5
It would be great to find donors, but from all public appearances, Georgetown still hasn't found a donor for the new dorm currently under construction (or for Villages A or C). I'd like to make sure those are named first. Just embarrassing. Rest assured that these two formerly virtually anonymous buildings will get new names pronto because of all the manufactured outrage. They must be renamed immediately to satisfy the protesters. Book it. Those buildings were virtually anonymous until Mulledy Hall became part of a highly-coveted, application-only residence hall complex known as "The Spirit of Georgetown Residential Academy." That students would be more interested in the history of the name on the place where they might live (and that is intended to represent "The Spirit" of the University) rather than a building no one was permitted to enter for around a decade is not really surprising. Manufactured outrage indeed.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Nov 16, 2015 12:05:44 GMT -5
Both the demands of the students at Georgetown and the response of the administration make me proud to be a Hoya. It was well-handled from all angles.
It's a shame that so many people here value the talking points passed down from above so much that even Georgetown students just get thrown into the pile of the actual manufactured outrage.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 16, 2015 13:47:14 GMT -5
Both the demands of the students at Georgetown and the response of the administration make me proud to be a Hoya. It was well-handled from all angles. It's a shame that so many people here value the talking points passed down from above so much that even Georgetown students just get thrown into the pile of the actual manufactured outrage. What is this "above" you reference? Is it considered a "safe space?"
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