lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Aug 7, 2015 10:21:27 GMT -5
we will be talented and deep yup if govan developes quickly bradley gives ten minutes WE WILL SEE go hoyas
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Aug 7, 2015 10:22:36 GMT -5
ps PRESSSSSSSSEMMMMMMMUPPPPPP just saying with alot of tall lanky 6'8 quick guys with LONG arms might wanna do that some stop the ball from getting up the court white or copeland on the ball yup
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Post by michaeldm9 on Aug 7, 2015 10:37:18 GMT -5
Agreed. It's a fun conversation but this point pretty much nails it. Actually when you look at the distribution of minutes between Gtown & Kentucky last year there really wasn't much difference.. If you take away DSR's high minutes it's even more similar.. JT3 played 9 kids last season 13.7 minutes or more.. Each kid played all 33 games except for DSR.. Calipari played 10 kids 10.9 minutes or more and that includes Poythress.. If Poythress doesn't get hurt I'd bet Marcus Lee wouldn't have gotten to double digits.. Getting two kids touted to be top 10 picks out of HS, who played over 30 minutes per game the year before to take less minutes the next season shows he can manage egos.. I'm not a Calipari fan either but folks have to be a little fair about the job he did last season.. Nice Stat Etomicb. Did not seem that JTII went that deep with that many minutes. Was it because of choice or foul trouble? If he plays the team with those time Stats i think the team would do real well this season. I think I was so blinded by Josh getting play. But already a 90 page thread. LOL!!!
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Post by michaeldm9 on Aug 7, 2015 10:40:49 GMT -5
Just a quick aside on Kentucky--I worked as a high school assistant to a fanatic Kentucky grad here in SoCal from 2002-2007. He used to bemoan the fact that Kentucky was not achieving the consistent results that were expected by their fans. In 2009 when Calipari arrived he was in heaven and for the first few years he lived for the basketball season. However, in the last few years the expectations have changed and the bar is set so high that I notice he truly cannot relax during the season. A Hoya victory against Nova brings me great satisfaction. A Wildcat victory against Florida only brings him relief. It reminds me of rooting for the Yankees for two decades when making the post season was the minimum acceptable result. Even after the season my friend from Lexington lives in fear that Calipari will leave or worse that he will stay and receive another suspension for breaking the rules. I do not envy him at all. As for the rotations used, I hope that JT III uses a very deep bench every year. I hope that players like Trey Mourning get the opportunity to develop on the court and not just in practice. However, I hate platoon systems like Kentucky uses and North Carolina used under Dean Smith unless there is reasonable equality between players. I see great value in placing Mourning in the game with the first team guards or having Cameron continue to try to develop his shot in game situations when surrounded by players like DSR, Peak and Copeland. I agree. Just give the kids time to develop on the court. But I am always hesitant about that statement because I never know what goes on in practice. You have to worked hard in practice to get on the court.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,009
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 7, 2015 12:09:21 GMT -5
Just a quick aside on Kentucky--I worked as a high school assistant to a fanatic Kentucky grad here in SoCal from 2002-2007. He used to bemoan the fact that Kentucky was not achieving the consistent results that were expected by their fans. In 2009 when Calipari arrived he was in heaven and for the first few years he lived for the basketball season. However, in the last few years the expectations have changed and the bar is set so high that I notice he truly cannot relax during the season. A Hoya victory against Nova brings me great satisfaction. A Wildcat victory against Florida only brings him relief. It reminds me of rooting for the Yankees for two decades when making the post season was the minimum acceptable result. Even after the season my friend from Lexington lives in fear that Calipari will leave or worse that he will stay and receive another suspension for breaking the rules. I do not envy him at all. As for the rotations used, I hope that JT III uses a very deep bench every year. I hope that players like Trey Mourning get the opportunity to develop on the court and not just in practice. However, I hate platoon systems like Kentucky uses and North Carolina used under Dean Smith unless there is reasonable equality between players. I see great value in placing Mourning in the game with the first team guards or having Cameron continue to try to develop his shot in game situations when surrounded by players like DSR, Peak and Copeland. A lot of wisdom here.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Aug 7, 2015 12:15:05 GMT -5
Just a quick aside on Kentucky--I worked as a high school assistant to a fanatic Kentucky grad here in SoCal from 2002-2007. He used to bemoan the fact that Kentucky was not achieving the consistent results that were expected by their fans. In 2009 when Calipari arrived he was in heaven and for the first few years he lived for the basketball season. However, in the last few years the expectations have changed and the bar is set so high that I notice he truly cannot relax during the season. A Hoya victory against Nova brings me great satisfaction. A Wildcat victory against Florida only brings him relief. It reminds me of rooting for the Yankees for two decades when making the post season was the minimum acceptable result. Even after the season my friend from Lexington lives in fear that Calipari will leave or worse that he will stay and receive another suspension for breaking the rules. I do not envy him at all. As for the rotations used, I hope that JT III uses a very deep bench every year. I hope that players like Trey Mourning get the opportunity to develop on the court and not just in practice. However, I hate platoon systems like Kentucky uses and North Carolina used under Dean Smith unless there is reasonable equality between players. I see great value in placing Mourning in the game with the first team guards or having Cameron continue to try to develop his shot in game situations when surrounded by players like DSR, Peak and Copeland. A lot of wisdom here. Heck, I have been saying the same thing for years. Where are my kudos?
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,816
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Post by hoyazeke on Aug 7, 2015 13:00:20 GMT -5
Im with Tas on this subject. Calicheat only won it all when he had a once in a decade talent on his team. That team also had two 5*s come back to join 3 or 4 5*s and one heady senior. That's what it took for Calicheat to win his one championship. There is no excuse for him not to have won it all last year with the team he had at his disposal. Every good college bball analyst was saying the same thing: less minutes for the Harrisons, Johnson, and Lee and more minutes for Ullis, Booker and Lyles. Hell probably just switching Andrew and Ullis would have been enough..........
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 13:38:18 GMT -5
Not one statistical analysis (nor Vegas) thought Kentucky was any more than a 50/50 bet to win the title -- even after going undefeated up to the tourney. KenPom had the odds at closer to 33%. 538 had them at 40.7 after the brackets came out.
"There is no excuse" is a little harsh.
Favorites? Sure. But anyone with skin in the game had The Field vs. Kentucky.
(As far as the original thread goes... When we start pulling in 4 of the top 25 guys in the country every year, we can worry about how we should play them. Right now we have 1 senior star and 11 guys who need to prove something.)
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 7, 2015 13:43:38 GMT -5
Sorry but this is silly. There's no coaching involved with playing platoons. It's about keeping big egos happy with minimal effort. Coaching would be telling the guys that didn't earn minutes that they're not getting minutes. But that doesn't make the benchwarmers happy. The guys that would have been sitting would have started for nearly every other squad in the country and both the coach and the players knew that. How to fix the problem? Ignore it entirely and employ a platoon. Otherwise, top level talent might have a bad taste in their mouths about having chosen Kentucky and may have even said so if they didn't get their minutes. Instead, minutes for everyone. That's utilitarianism and, also, poor coaching. The injury to Poythress was, in a way, helpful to Coach Cal. Part of coaching is managing egos. As well as managing playing time to make sure the flow and continuity of you team is not disrupted with all of the substitutions that are occurring. Making sure each player accept his role at certain time on the floor. Calapri didn't just role the balls out and they played. I not a big Calapri fan when it comes to a lot of thing, But hing he can do is Coach the game.Actually the knock he gets from his own fans is he's bad at X's and O's and in game coaching. He's great at recruiting (learned from the master Larry Brown, and passed on to his disciple Mark Turgeon) and developing a system to fit the talent. If his coaching ability was elite then you are probably seeing John Wooden/Red Auerbach type dominance at Kentucky. Platoon system is a cheat in a way because it takes the in game substitutions and identification of matchup problems and their exploitation out of the hands of the coach. It's actually an inferior style of coaching and only works when both platoons are so much more dominant than the opponent that in game subs and matchup exploitation doesn't matter.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 7, 2015 21:00:07 GMT -5
Not one statistical analysis (nor Vegas) thought Kentucky was any more than a 50/50 bet to win the title -- even after going undefeated up to the tourney. KenPom had the odds at closer to 33%. 538 had them at 40.7 after the brackets came out. "There is no excuse" is a little harsh. Favorites? Sure. But anyone with skin in the game had The Field vs. Kentucky. This is absolutely correct and a reflection of how difficult it is to truly win a tournament. Was Kentucky undefeated up to the Final Four? Yes. Did they play some tough teams? At times. But, especially being in the SEC, it's not like Kentucky had a murderer's row of opponents leading up to the tournament either. The SEC itself was particularly weak last year. Things can change quickly when you're playing top 10-20 teams in the NCAA tournament. It's not a reflection on Kentucky being bad, it's more a reflection that they were playing really good opponents and they eventually lost.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Aug 8, 2015 13:05:30 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. Announcing a platoon means you don't have to manage any egos or tailor roles of any kind. Everyone plays and everyone sits. And, as to coaching, we'll again have to agree to disagree. He's not a good in-game coach. There are very good reasons he was a dumpster fire in the NBA. He's a fantastic recruiter. It pretty much ends right there in my mind. Calipari made it to the Final Four without losing a game, something no coach has been able to do since UNLV in 1991 (more than 30 years ago). He's gone to the Elite Eight every year he's been at UK other than the year after he won a title and his best player blew his knee out, and he's gotten teams that are heavily reliant on freshman and sophomores to play top 15 defense in 4 of the 6 years he's been at UK. You can believe he's as dirty as they come, but you can't say he's only a recruiter. The results on the court are way too good to consider him some kind of better Josh Pastner. I guess we can assume TBird wasn't a math major?
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Aug 9, 2015 21:05:22 GMT -5
Calipari made it to the Final Four without losing a game, something no coach has been able to do since UNLV in 1991 (more than 30 years ago). He's gone to the Elite Eight every year he's been at UK other than the year after he won a title and his best player blew his knee out, and he's gotten teams that are heavily reliant on freshman and sophomores to play top 15 defense in 4 of the 6 years he's been at UK. You can believe he's as dirty as they come, but you can't say he's only a recruiter. The results on the court are way too good to consider him some kind of better Josh Pastner. I guess we can assume TBird wasn't a math major? Whoops. You'd think I was in the SFS with a mistake like that
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 9, 2015 21:09:52 GMT -5
Calipari made it to the Final Four without losing a game, something no coach has been able to do since UNLV in 1991 (more than 30 years ago). He's gone to the Elite Eight every year he's been at UK other than the year after he won a title and his best player blew his knee out, and he's gotten teams that are heavily reliant on freshman and sophomores to play top 15 defense in 4 of the 6 years he's been at UK. You can believe he's as dirty as they come, but you can't say he's only a recruiter. The results on the court are way too good to consider him some kind of better Josh Pastner. I guess we can assume TBird wasn't a math major? Take the most athletic kids in the country at every position and require effort on defense. Sounds like a recipe for winning. Motivation is certainly simple enough. Play D or I'll recruit over you. He is a better Josh Pastner. Memphis probably agrees. As for Elite Eights and all of that, Calipari is unparalleled as a recruiter. But, keeping the players the same on all of those Kentucky teams, I don't think on pure coaching he's done anything that any D1 top 50 coach couldn't have done with that personnel. We can debate his coaching prowess and neither of us will likely convince the other of anything but, having said that, employing a platoon screams horrible coach to me.
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