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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 3, 2015 14:30:48 GMT -5
I really think one of the biggest disconnects in this thread (and others like it) is that people truly think that having a successful basketball program (good regular seasons, good NCAA seeds, good NCAA success) is a lot easier than it actually is in the real world, especially at a program like Georgetown. I also think part of the problem is that many fans have unrealistic expectations.
Still, I think if we had 2-3 Sweet 16's in the last few years a lot of these complaints wouldn't be out there, which demonstrates how silly it is. It's not like we aren't making the NCAA tournament or we are barely managing to get in as an at large team. We have - more often than not - not only made the NCAA tournament but also done it with a very high seed. Show me a list of other coaches who have done that in the last ten years. I doubt it would be more than 15-20 at most.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Apr 3, 2015 14:55:39 GMT -5
Don't even know where to begin with this one. Perhaps the random point-in-time comparison of the then 58-year-old Williams to the then 42-year-old JTIII? Eh, never mind, I don't have the energy. What do ages have to do with the argument? Granted given JTIII's age, there is no "retirement" option, which lets both sides save face, but that wasn't the point. The point was everyone who is calling JTIII a Top 10 coach, needs to look no further than our neighbor to the north where an eerily similar run, following his peak was viewed as disappointing. Here we are going out of our way to defend that same resume and claim it warrants Top 10 status because we've achieved these middling results while upholding our integrity. Did I miss the NCAA sanctions that were placed on Maryland under Gary? I just don't understand why it's considered bashing our coach to say he is overpaid based on his recent results and his standing in the profession. As I said, I really don't have the energy to go point-by-point with you, partly because I have agreed with the general notion that JTIII is somewhat overpaid given the results, especially for those who place a heavy weight on NCAA performance. But when you throw out subjective stuff like, "Even factoring in the integrity piece, he's not a Top 10 or even Top 20 coach" without any further explanation you should expect some push back. But one general point -- The back-and-forth here has generally been reasonable and both sides are making defensible points. Why is it if you have something negative to say about the coach, any counter-arguments are looking at things through "blue-and-gray colored glasses" or lacking objectivity or the more negative guys feel like they are being called a "basher?" Where is all this "heat" that you are getting for questioning the salary? Where is the unyielding pro-JTIII crowd? What i see is posters making reasonable arguments for and against. I am seeing just as many negative posts as positive. I am seeing the negative posters being as unyielding as the positive. Seriously, the straw man stuff gets really old, and makes these threads near-unreadable.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Apr 3, 2015 15:35:14 GMT -5
But one general point -- The back-and-forth here has generally been reasonable and both sides are making defensible points. Why is it if you have something negative to say about the coach, any counter-arguments are looking at things through "blue-and-gray colored glasses" or lacking objectivity or the more negative guys feel like they are being called a "basher?" Where is all this "heat" that you are getting for questioning the salary? Where is the unyielding pro-JTIII crowd? This year's potential Duke vs. Kentucky final in Indy has nothing on this summer's potential Concern Trolling vs. Persecution Complex showdown on Hoyatalk.
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hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 3, 2015 20:56:56 GMT -5
This whole system is just so unfair! They pull those bucks off the backs of us, the posters. Without us, what do they have? Nothing! Yet we toil, posting day and night, many of us thousands of times, for free. And pls don't run afoul of the rules, which are difficult to understand and not uniformly enforced. I think we should unionized and address this situation. Who will be our Norma Rae??!! I nominate kc.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 3, 2015 22:12:23 GMT -5
Emphasis added, because recruiting has the greatest number of extraneous variables that the coach either doesn't control (facilities) or are inimical to Georgetown's way of doing things (paying players under the table, committing widespread academic fraud, becoming a one-and-done factory). The staff recruited kids like Kevon Looney, Kelly Oubre, Myles Turner, Rashad Vaughn, D. Russell from this freshman class.. They recruited Alonzo Trier, D. Bacon, D. Stone & Rabb this HS season.. G'town isn't a one & done factory but it's not due to a lack of trying.. Just because a player ended up being a one-and-done at their ultimate destination doesn't mean that they had settled on that exact path from the start and stuck to it throughout the recruitment process. Nothing wrong with engaging with the best players out there; that's exactly what you should do. If you recruit them but they decide, for any number of reasons, to go another way, that's their prerogative. It doesn't follow that all of these guys would've been one-and-dones had they gone to Georgetown. The two may well be mutually exclusive, to a great extent.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 4, 2015 0:25:24 GMT -5
Who will be our Norma Rae??!! I nominate kc. I'm too young. Someone will have to explain to me who this Norma Rae person is.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Apr 7, 2015 12:34:52 GMT -5
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 7, 2015 13:01:20 GMT -5
That's pretty cool and I think that's an accomplishment we can all be proud of and JT can be paid for. Its worth mentioning though that our average rank is the highest in the top 15 and by a large margin over all others save Gonzaga. Still....I'll take it.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Apr 7, 2015 13:13:29 GMT -5
That's pretty cool and I think that's an accomplishment we can all be proud of and JT can be paid for. Its worth mentioning though that our average rank is the highest in the top 15 and by a large margin over all others save Gonzaga. Still....I'll take it. This is interesting - I would have guessed we'd be more in the 15-20 range. To see us ahead of Kentucky, Uconn, and Villanova is surprising, but the caveat like you said is that our average ranking and peak ranking is obviously not as good as these teams. I guess it points out the fact most fans would prefer higher peaks over consistency. Also, funny how a few bad tournament losses make you forget the relative success of the team during this 10 year run.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 7, 2015 13:21:15 GMT -5
Aside from keeping allegedly clean program (which cannot be fully confirmed, but believed so, since there has been no NCAA violation) and not being a trouble-maker off-court, JT3's accomplishment in terms of basketball has not been very strong to deserve top 5 best contract in the country. but i guess we will agree to disagree here. So..now he's top 5 in compensation based on what? Some subjective standard? This thread started with a list that ranks JTII as being the 11th highest paid coach -- a list mind you that has been criticized as inexact (doesn't seem to include all side compensation) and incomplete (does not include salaries of coaches who missed tourney), but then he suddenly became top 10, and now it's top 5. I mean, yes, it's very easy to criticize JTIII when the goal posts constantly shift and the standards used to evaluate him are no longer tethered to reality. You'd have to essentially double JT3's salary to put him in the top 5.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Apr 7, 2015 13:48:21 GMT -5
So..now he's top 5 in compensation based on what? Some subjective standard? This thread started with a list that ranks JTII as being the 11th highest paid coach -- a list mind you that has been criticized as inexact (doesn't seem to include all side compensation) and incomplete (does not include salaries of coaches who missed tourney), but then he suddenly became top 10, and now it's top 5. I mean, yes, it's very easy to criticize JTIII when the goal posts constantly shift and the standards used to evaluate him are no longer tethered to reality. You'd have to essentially double JT3's salary to put him in the top 5. But only if he agrees to use more timeouts and redshirt everyone. #Metrics
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