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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 5, 2015 21:25:28 GMT -5
He has had better overall teams, though, although I'm not sure which way that really cuts, at least statistically. Hmmm... I'm not sure about that. Braswell had Sweetney for his last three years. Compare that to DSR's soph season and the 2-vs-5. Only his last two years, not three. He had Ruben for a couple of years (obviously a serviceable center) and Lee Scruggs for parts of two years. DSR's sophomore year was rough, no question. But the year before that, he had Markel and Otto. This year he has more overall talent (I'd argue) and we certainly hope he will next year. I'd still say the talent was better for DSR, but (I'm not stating anything profound) those Braswell teams certainly had enough talent to be better than they were. God, at the risk of opening up a can of worms, I'm happy we have JTIII.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 5, 2015 22:16:51 GMT -5
Thanks blueandgrey. As I said at the beginning your contribution to this site is Very appreciated. I was not trolling on the Balla stuff. Just responding to someone else trolling in this thread on Balla. As for DSR. Also not trolling. He is a really good offensive player (though VERY deliberate, there is almost no fast breaking with him). Just expected more from him and this team. He was pre-season Big East Player of the Year. The team is 4-9 against good teams. Most of the issue is with the seniors. But, I do think the DSR - Braswell comparison is pretty close. Same build, similar game, similar results. Not really meant to be an insult to DSR. Just reality. I'm not remotely on board with the Braswell comparison and the fast break comment isn't true either. If you're going to compare DSR to someone, don't pick a guy that was a volume shooter that would take a lot of ill-advised shots. That's not DSR-like at all. If anything, for most of this season, we'd have liked to see DSR be more assertive. Their defensive games are not alike at all either.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 5, 2015 22:18:28 GMT -5
Oh my god! What happpened to his shorts?!?!? Chris Obekpa's mom was his tailor.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 5, 2015 22:30:13 GMT -5
Thanks blueandgrey. As I said at the beginning your contribution to this site is Very appreciated. I was not trolling on the Balla stuff. Just responding to someone else trolling in this thread on Balla. As for DSR. Also not trolling. He is a really good offensive player (though VERY deliberate, there is almost no fast breaking with him). Just expected more from him and this team. He was pre-season Big East Player of the Year. The team is 4-9 against good teams. Most of the issue is with the seniors. But, I do think the DSR - Braswell comparison is pretty close. Same build, similar game, similar results. Not really meant to be an insult to DSR. Just reality. Different build. Much different game. Braswell didn't shoot well, he just shot a ton on a team with little offensive talent. DSR's best skill is his shot. He turned the ball over a ton; DSR doesn't. When DSR drives, he's probably at his best dishing on the interior. When Braswell drove, he was ALWAYS taking it to the rim. He was notorious for his inability to pass down low. Aside from the fact that they both score a lot, they aren't anywhere near each other.
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playtyler
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Post by playtyler on Mar 6, 2015 1:20:31 GMT -5
Odd to say Georgetown's all time 3 point shooting leader did not shoot well and their all time leading assist player was "ALWAYS taking it to the rim." DSR is a better shooter (though he has had some really bad games where he can't make anything, i.e. at Villanova). Braswell was a better defensive player. I hate where I am in this thread because I like DSR, so every comment I make against him makes me seem like a troll. I don't think the Braswell comparison is such a negative. But I will say, Butler game steal aside, DSR's defense is his weakest part of his game. Teams end up with OPEN threes when DSR is on the perimeter. Ever notice how teams have killed us with threes? It seems like every decent team has tons of wide open threes against us. Our wings cover lots of ground for threes (Trawick, Bowen, Copeland). It is our guards that get stuck behind back picks, lose their guy, etc. and give up the threes. DSR also has a hard time staying in front of good offensive point guards. See St. Johns game, Harrison, or Dunn at Providence.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 6, 2015 1:48:34 GMT -5
Odd to say Georgetown's all time 3 point shooting leader did not shoot well and their all time leading assist player was "ALWAYS taking it to the rim." DSR is a better shooter (though he has had some really bad games where he can't make anything, i.e. at Villanova). Braswell was a better defensive player. I hate where I am in this thread because I like DSR, so every comment I make against him makes me seem like a troll. I don't think the Braswell comparison is such a negative. But I will say, Butler game steal aside, DSR's defense is his weakest part of his game. Teams end up with OPEN threes when DSR is on the perimeter. Ever notice how teams have killed us with threes? It seems like every decent team has tons of wide open threes against us. Our wings cover lots of ground for threes (Trawick, Bowen, Copeland). It is our guards that get stuck behind back picks, lose their guy, etc. and give up the threes. DSR also has a hard time staying in front of good offensive point guards. See St. Johns game, Harrison, or Dunn at Providence. JWall made about 50 more three pointers than Braswell did. DSR will pass Braswell sometime early next year. And both players shot much better than 31% from behind the arc, which is what Braswell shot. Also, hard to trust your view on DSR's defense if you are going to criticize him for not stopping Harrison, who has not made a field goal in his two games against us this year and was 8/27 from the floor against us last year.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 6, 2015 2:22:21 GMT -5
Odd to say Georgetown's all time 3 point shooting leader did not shoot well and their all time leading assist player was "ALWAYS taking it to the rim." Why do you keep calling Braswell that? Jon Wallace made 50 more threes in fewer attempts. Austin Freeman made just two fewer threes in over 100 fewer attempts. So Braswell was Austin Freeman and a dude who shot 2-107 from three. This isn't that hard to understand. He shot 31% from 3.- That's not good.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 6, 2015 2:28:15 GMT -5
I'll make this argument with a straight face - Braswell needs to be viewed within the complete lack of offensive scheme and the utter lack of offensive talent on the teams he played. It was not his fault that Craig Esherick was an incompetent offensive coach. It was not his fault that for years the most offensively talented teammate he had was Trez Kilpatrick.
I have no doubt that within a JT3 system he would be much more offensively efficient and an asset.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 6, 2015 5:56:24 GMT -5
I'll make this argument with a straight face - Braswell needs to be viewed within the complete lack of offensive scheme and the utter lack of offensive talent on the teams he played. It was not his fault that Craig Esherick was an incompetent offensive coach. It was not his fault that for years the most offensively talented teammate he had was Trez Kilpatrick. But for years he had Sweetney.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 6, 2015 6:11:04 GMT -5
Odd to say Georgetown's all time 3 point shooting leader did not shoot well and their all time leading assist player was "ALWAYS taking it to the rim." DSR is a better shooter (though he has had some really bad games where he can't make anything, i.e. at Villanova). Braswell was a better defensive player. I hate where I am in this thread because I like DSR, so every comment I make against him makes me seem like a troll. I don't think the Braswell comparison is such a negative. But I will say, Butler game steal aside, DSR's defense is his weakest part of his game. Teams end up with OPEN threes when DSR is on the perimeter. Ever notice how teams have killed us with threes? It seems like every decent team has tons of wide open threes against us. Our wings cover lots of ground for threes (Trawick, Bowen, Copeland). It is our guards that get stuck behind back picks, lose their guy, etc. and give up the threes. DSR also has a hard time staying in front of good offensive point guards. See St. Johns game, Harrison, or Dunn at Providence. Sorry for the "like" above. I meant to tap the "quote" link on my IPh. I do not agree with this. First, when the knock on your offense is that you need to shoot more or be more selfish, then it's obvious defense will be the weakest part of your game. DSR has made tremendous strides on defense from when he started so kudos for that. As for 3s, it's not only DSR, it's trying to double team the ball by everyone guarding the perimeter, i.e., Bowen, but that's the defensive system under JT3, the switching and the inexperience of four freshmen combined. Read the game threads. It's not just DSR.
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dense
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Post by dense on Mar 6, 2015 6:48:40 GMT -5
Odd to say Georgetown's all time 3 point shooting leader did not shoot well and their all time leading assist player was "ALWAYS taking it to the rim." DSR is a better shooter (though he has had some really bad games where he can't make anything, i.e. at Villanova). Braswell was a better defensive player. I hate where I am in this thread because I like DSR, so every comment I make against him makes me seem like a troll. I don't think the Braswell comparison is such a negative. But I will say, Butler game steal aside, DSR's defense is his weakest part of his game. Teams end up with OPEN threes when DSR is on the perimeter. Ever notice how teams have killed us with threes? It seems like every decent team has tons of wide open threes against us. Our wings cover lots of ground for threes (Trawick, Bowen, Copeland). It is our guards that get stuck behind back picks, lose their guy, etc. and give up the threes. DSR also has a hard time staying in front of good offensive point guards. See St. Johns game, Harrison, or Dunn at Providence. Harrison?? If you said Phil Greene I would have taken this post under more consideration. Harrison has had 1 good game against GU his whole career and it wasn't this year.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 6, 2015 7:17:04 GMT -5
I'll make this argument with a straight face - Braswell needs to be viewed within the complete lack of offensive scheme and the utter lack of offensive talent on the teams he played. It was not his fault that Craig Esherick was an incompetent offensive coach. It was not his fault that for years the most offensively talented teammate he had was Trez Kilpatrick. I have no doubt that within a JT3 system he would be much more offensively efficient and an asset. Interesting to note the Kenpom offense rankings go back to 2002. 2002: 50 2013: 78 2014: 44 2015: 38 While JTIII has the rep as an offensive guru, we haven't had an offense ranked higher than 38th since 2010. So DSR isn't the beneficiary of an unstoppable offensive machine (though he might be next year which is exciting to think). Braswell's career stands on its own. Great Hoya in his own right. He doesn't need to be in the Greg Whittington, Wesley Wilson hypothetical hall of fame. DSR is just a better basketball player.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 6, 2015 8:54:41 GMT -5
I'll make this argument with a straight face - Braswell needs to be viewed within the complete lack of offensive scheme and the utter lack of offensive talent on the teams he played. It was not his fault that Craig Esherick was an incompetent offensive coach. It was not his fault that for years the most offensively talented teammate he had was Trez Kilpatrick. I have no doubt that within a JT3 system he would be much more offensively efficient and an asset. This page of the thread if nothing else made me briefly ponder: "I wonder how JTIII would use Lee Scruggs in his offense..."
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 6, 2015 9:31:26 GMT -5
As the troll that evoked balla's name, unnecessarily so, I regret it because it has taken away from the purpose of this thread which is to celebrate DSR awesomeness.
One last point: to playtyler, your idol balla has his own site still pal. it is just a click away so you still have access to all of his pathetic and offensive ramblings. As others have mentioned, HT is better off without his toxic presence.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 6, 2015 9:37:25 GMT -5
This is the first year they've played together that Mikael Hopkins will have more rebounds than DSR. Hopkins, despite having an extra year and six inches on DSR, is only about 80 rebounds ahead of DSR for his career.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 6, 2015 9:57:10 GMT -5
Interesting to note the Kenpom offense rankings go back to 2002. 2002: 50 2013: 78 2014: 44 2015: 38 While JTIII has the rep as an offensive guru, we haven't had an offense ranked higher than 38th since 2010. So DSR isn't the beneficiary of an unstoppable offensive machine (though he might be next year which is exciting to think). Braswell's career stands on its own. Great Hoya in his own right. He doesn't need to be in the Greg Whittington, Wesley Wilson hypothetical hall of fame. DSR is just a better basketball player. You're better than that GIGA - that's cherry picking statistics. While Georgetown might not have had an offense ranked higher than 38 since 2010, we were 38 in 2012, 39 in 2011, and 10 in 2010. Esherick's best year doesn't hold a candle to JT3's average year of offensive efficiency. Why? Because he was a completely incompetent offensive coach who made little use of movement or discipline. I will also make this narrative argument - we were 50 in 2002 on the basis of Sweetney taking on double and triple teams and Wesley Wilson dunking - we were 50 *despite* Craig Esherick. There really was no system that helped free Sweetney up, he was just that good. We both watched the games, GIGA - I know you were around during that era - watching those Esherick teams and then the first year of JT3 was like watching night and day. I'll make no argument that Braswell > DSR. Braswell gets really underrated in my opinion because of who he played for - he was a very talented offensive and defensive player who gets knocked for shooting percentage, but his legacy probably would have been very different under JT3. As FLHoya suggests, there's a bunch of players I feel that way about - Scruggs, Perry, Braswell, and even Sweetney.
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playtyler
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Post by playtyler on Mar 6, 2015 10:00:27 GMT -5
Agreed DSR is a really good rebounder for his size and a better shooter. Braswell was the leading 3 point shot maker when he graduated (he has since been passed by better shooters, who also were in a system that is intended to create open 3 point looks, unlike Esherick's system which was intended to create open seats in the 100 Section?). DSR is a great shooter. I hope he shoots more. Maybe the hair will help. It still remains that Braswell was a better passer/creator and defender/turnover producer, as well as a pretty good/great scorer. I can't see a better comparison for DSR.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 6, 2015 10:02:39 GMT -5
Interesting to note the Kenpom offense rankings go back to 2002. 2002: 50 2013: 78 2014: 44 2015: 38 While JTIII has the rep as an offensive guru, we haven't had an offense ranked higher than 38th since 2010. So DSR isn't the beneficiary of an unstoppable offensive machine (though he might be next year which is exciting to think). Braswell's career stands on its own. Great Hoya in his own right. He doesn't need to be in the Greg Whittington, Wesley Wilson hypothetical hall of fame. DSR is just a better basketball player. You're better than that GIGA - that's cherry picking statistics. While Georgetown might not have had an offense ranked higher than 38 since 2010, we were 38 in 2012, 39 in 2011, and 10 in 2010. Esherick's best year doesn't hold a candle to JT3's average year of offensive efficiency. Why? Because he was a completely incompetent offensive coach who made little use of movement or discipline. I will also make this narrative argument - we were 50 in 2002 on the basis of Sweetney taking on double and triple teams and Wesley Wilson dunking - we were 50 *despite* Craig Esherick. There really was no system that helped free Sweetney up, he was just that good. We both watched the games, GIGA - I know you were around during that era - watching those Esherick teams and then the first year of JT3 was like watching night and day. I'll make no argument that Braswell > DSR. Braswell gets really underrated in my opinion because of who he played for - he was a very talented offensive and defensive player who gets knocked for shooting percentage, but his legacy probably would have been very different under JT3. As FLHoya suggests, there's a bunch of players I feel that way about - Scruggs, Perry, Braswell, and even Sweetney. Whoa, TC. Giga isn't cherry picking anything, he's picked those three years because they are the three years that DSR has played on the team. No one disputes that many JTIII teams had far greater offensive efficiency than any teams under Esh (or, for that matter, most teams under JTJr). But this is about DSR...
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Post by flyoverhoya on Mar 6, 2015 10:20:47 GMT -5
Looked back at the "top 100" from several years ago, and seems to me DSR ends up somewhere in Charles Smith's neighborhood. Looking at that list, I was also surprised by Tillmon's overall stats. I was there the same years he was, and he (very quietly) had a much better run than I remember. If DSR has the same sort of senior year that Tillmon did, I'll be happy.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Mar 6, 2015 10:25:09 GMT -5
Not sure stats tell everything when comparing players from different eras and coaching styles. So, I'm just going to go based on what I saw with my own , old , eyes. Among guards, Sleepy and AI are obviously in a different level than DSR. Duren was the same height and build, but just more explosive in terms of jumping and speed. If not for his serious knee injury, at a time when surgery wasn't like it is today, he would have been an NBA starter for several years. If you saw Michael Jackson run the great Patrick Ewing teams, you'd take him over DSR, as well. Just smooth as silk, a great ballhandler, passer, shooter...could do whatever was needed on a given day. Jackson is the best "pure pg" I've seen at Gtown, with Duren a close second. (AI was a mega talent in a class by himself.) Quite honestly,I would also take Wingate, who played the two guard on those teams over DSR. Although he played just two years, Victor Page may have been better, as well. Charles Smith...I would take over DSR...but not by much. Old timers may recall Derrick Jackson....he certainly is in the mix with DSR.
I think the Braswell, DSR comparison is a good one,,,not in terms of their games, but how they would rank. I think they are pretty close...will take DSR by a hair. BTW...I love DSR..but these names above stand out to me as All time greats on the Hilltop.
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