DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 5, 2014 1:13:29 GMT -5
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by seaweed on Dec 5, 2014 6:31:36 GMT -5
Standig over BUM by TKO
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 5, 2014 10:54:32 GMT -5
Feinstein is a bum, but I agree with his premise. A DC big five or six makes a ton of sense. It restarts rivalries and would be good for overall OOC attendance.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Dec 5, 2014 12:58:16 GMT -5
The argument for a DC "Big Five" has been an ongoing topic of conversation for at least two generations of Hoyas. With all due respect to Feinstein (okay, that sounds oxymoronic), this topic is not exactly breaking news.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 5, 2014 13:09:54 GMT -5
Feinstein is a bum, but I agree with his premise. A DC big five or six makes a ton of sense. It restarts rivalries and would be good for overall OOC attendance. In recent years, we've played Navy, American, and Howard with some regularity, so it's certainly not like we don't play local teams. I'd be fine formalizing something (particularly if it involved Maryland, who I believe we should be playing each year), but honestly, I'm not sure you need to play all four or five of the local teams every year. I think it limits your scheduling opportunities overall. I also wouldn't want a situation where we're playing any low-major team on its home court. Even playing a mid-major on its home court (GWU or GMU) should only be done rarely. But I'd be open to committing to playing, say, three local teams on a rotating basis each year. How about the following: GU, Maryland, GW, GMU, AU, and Howard (the six truly metro area schools) set aside three Saturdays for triple headers each year. One of the Saturdays is always at Verizon. One is always at Comcast. And one is always at either Mason or GW on an alternating basis. You could arrange the matchups so that neither of the "major" programs ever plays the mid-majors on the road (although you could allow for it to happen if GU and MD were up for it). But the way it would work is that the two big boys would always play each other, one of the "mid-majors", and one of the "low-majors." Same for everyone else. (The matchup between GW and GMU would be one of their conference matchups for that year). The matchups and locations rotate each year, and everyone gets some neutral court games, which are good for RPI purposes. So, in year one it might look like this: At Mason 2pm: Hoyas vs. Howard 5pm: Maryland vs. AU 8pm: GW at GMU At Comcast 2pm: AU vs. Howard 5pm: Hoyas vs. GMU 8pm: GW at Maryland At Verizon 2pm: GW vs. AU 5pm: Howard vs. GMU 8pm: Maryland at Hoyas Tweak away -- I'm sure there's lots of ways to do this. The low majors would be in no position to moan about it. The mid-majors might complain that they never get a home game against GU or Maryland, but they don't as it is right now anyway, so they couldn't really complain. And they'd get to host a sure-fire sell-out game each year, which would be good for their bottom lines. Ticket allocation would be a bugaboo, of course (but should be solvable; I'd allocate half of the arena to the home team and then give every other team an equal number of tickets), and I'll grant that a not insignificant number of people would not watch all three games and might just watch their team play. But plenty of people would stay.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Dec 5, 2014 18:05:38 GMT -5
Villanova would love to get out of the Big Five commitment. Its great for Penn.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 6, 2014 8:17:01 GMT -5
You would think with his being out of work he would have time for some new ideas. Oh well
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Dec 8, 2014 10:04:53 GMT -5
Feinstein is a bum, but I agree with his premise. A DC big five or six makes a ton of sense. It restarts rivalries and would be good for overall OOC attendance. I think that's doubtful. Im not sure people would much care, for example, if the second part of the BB&T was Georgetown vs GW, instead of Gtown vs Charlotte. There are just a lot of simple reasons for this not to happen. For one, we dont even have that much of a window for the OOC games. We should continue to have some time off for the players during finals time. We should try to play in high profile tourneys and then we should try to grab some good home and homes and neutral site games. III shouldnt put all of that aside so we can make some local fans happy. As others said, Im sure Nova wants out of the Big 5 so they can play some other games.
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 8, 2014 10:48:51 GMT -5
Feinstein is a bum, but I agree with his premise. A DC big five or six makes a ton of sense. It restarts rivalries and would be good for overall OOC attendance. I think that's doubtful. Im not sure people would much care, for example, if the second part of the BB&T was Georgetown vs GW, instead of Gtown vs Charlotte. There are just a lot of simple reasons for this not to happen. For one, we dont even have that much of a window for the OOC games. We should continue to have some time off for the players during finals time. We should try to play in high profile tourneys and then we should try to grab some good home and homes and neutral site games. III shouldnt put all of that aside so we can make some local fans happy. As others said, Im sure Nova wants out of the Big 5 so they can play some other games. Oh, believe me, the GW people would care. A lot. And I think it could grow into a nice little local rivalry. GW has shown the ability to field a competitive team and even make it into the national rankings, so I don't think there's any issue with substituting GW in for the Robert Morrises and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi's of the world. Maryland, obviously, would be a high-profile game and would be a good home and home. The American and Howard games have never drawn that big a crowd. I think maybe they *could* become more of a draw over time, but it would require some more continuity, institutional support (more on the side of AU/HU than ours, really), maybe discounted tickets for the other team's students or even making a ticket part of their student ticket package, etc. That's a not insignificant logistical investment - one that I'm not sure anyone is really all that interested in making. Personally, I love local rivalries, so I would be all in favor of these kinds of arrangements, but I understand there's a lot of constraints, not least of which is that schools like Howard, AU, and Mason do rely on playing guarantee games to pay some of their bills.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 8, 2014 16:31:03 GMT -5
At one time, Philly's BIG FIVE was a hugely successful idea. It was started in the 1950s and included 5 teams that each had serious hoops programs back in the day: LaSalle, Penn, St. Joe’s, Temple and Villanova. All the games were played at Penn's Palestra -- a tired old basketball facility whose major (and legit) claim to fame is the incredible history of college basketball games that were once played there. Annually (it seemed) 3 or 4 of the Big Five would be in the nation's top 25. LaSalle won an NCAA title in ’55 and finished second in ’56. Temple was in the Final Four in ’56 & ’58, and St. Joe’s in ’61. Nova was runner up in ’71 and ’09 – and I think they won one year. In the NIT - at one time on par or even ahead of, the NCAAs -- Nova was 2nd in’65, Temple 1st in ’69, Nova won in ’94, St. Joe was 2nd in ’96 and ’05. And Penn won about 25 Ivy League titles. Oh, and LaSalle also once had a 6'9 F named Joe “Jelly Bean” Bryant, who was a first round draft pick in 1975 and had a successful NBA career. Today he is better known as the father of Kobe. Clearly, there were a lot of successful programs at one time, but it’s pretty much just Nova these days. DC doesn't have that same tradition, those historic rivalries. That was a different time and era. This was long before the Big East. Even the Ivy League only became official the same year that Philly's Big Five did.... 1954. I am guessing the other teams were in the loosely defined ECAC, or something similar that pre-dated it. Now we have the Big East, the Big Ten, the Atlantic Ten (GW, Mason), CAA (Towson), MEAC (Howard), Patriot League (American, Navy) and who knows what else for whatever teams are currently being put forward for this idea. Imagine the scheduling complications? Not to mention the priority all of those teams put on: #1 Conference Play & PR, and #2 NCAA OOC scheduling? Trying to recreate something in DC that was once, but is no longer, a successful concept in Philadelphia decades ago is fighting against the times with no real payoff in the end even if one were to succeed. Time to acknowledge this train left the station a long time ago. www.philadelphiabig5.org/history/
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 8, 2014 17:01:37 GMT -5
Of course, this entire discussion could be boiled down to "if Pockface is for it, I am against it"....
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Post by JohnnyJones on Dec 8, 2014 22:19:15 GMT -5
At one time, Philly's BIG FIVE was a hugely successful idea. It was started in the 1950s and included 5 teams that each had serious hoops programs back in the day: LaSalle, Penn, St. Joe’s, Temple and Villanova. All the games were played at Penn's Palestra -- a tired old basketball facility whose major (and legit) claim to fame is the incredible history of college basketball games that were once played there. Annually (it seemed) 3 or 4 of the Big Five would be in the nation's top 25. LaSalle won an NCAA title in ’55 and finished second in ’56. Temple was in the Final Four in ’56 & ’58, and St. Joe’s in ’61. Nova was runner up in ’71 and ’09 – and I think they won one year. In the NIT - at one time on par or even ahead of, the NCAAs -- Nova was 2nd in’65, Temple 1st in ’69, Nova won in ’94, St. Joe was 2nd in ’96 and ’05. And Penn won about 25 Ivy League titles. Oh, and LaSalle also once had a 6'9 F named Joe “Jelly Bean” Bryant, who was a first round draft pick in 1975 and had a successful NBA career. Today he is better known as the father of Kobe. Clearly, there were a lot of successful programs at one time, but it’s pretty much just Nova these days. DC doesn't have that same tradition, those historic rivalries. That was a different time and era. This was long before the Big East. Even the Ivy League only became official the same year that Philly's Big Five did.... 1954. I am guessing the other teams were in the loosely defined ECAC, or something similar that pre-dated it. Now we have the Big East, the Big Ten, the Atlantic Ten (GW, Mason), CAA (Towson), MEAC (Howard), Patriot League (American, Navy) and who knows what else for whatever teams are currently being put forward for this idea. Imagine the scheduling complications? Not to mention the priority all of those teams put on: #1 Conference Play & PR, and #2 NCAA OOC scheduling? Trying to recreate something in DC that was once, but is no longer, a successful concept in Philadelphia decades ago is fighting against the times with no real payoff in the end even if one were to succeed. Time to acknowledge this train left the station a long time ago. www.philadelphiabig5.org/history/Ok, but what about playing MD and/or GW?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 8, 2014 22:41:20 GMT -5
GW people are the only people who really care about this.
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Just Cos
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Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Dec 8, 2014 23:09:30 GMT -5
What does playing WG do for Georgetown? I can't think of a single thing. Same thing for Maryland.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 9, 2014 0:04:14 GMT -5
What does playing WG do for Georgetown? I can't think of a single thing. Same thing for Maryland. Playing Maryland would at least pack the verizon center whereas WG doesn't have a big enough fan base to actually increase our attendance, so I agree no benefit in playing them, but there is some in playing Maryland, even if it is just take the money of the thousands of Maryland fans that would show up to the game.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 9, 2014 0:12:04 GMT -5
What does playing WG do for Georgetown? I can't think of a single thing. Same thing for Maryland. Playing Maryland would at least pack the verizon center whereas WG doesn't have a big enough fan base to actually increase our attendance, so I agree no benefit in playing them, but there is some in playing Maryland, even if it is just take the money of the thousands of Maryland fans that would show up to the game. They have a lot more students/alums than we do, and while they may not care to drag themselves to the Smith Center to watch their school take on Longwood, UMBC, or...*checks schedule* DePaul hahahaha... there is no doubt in my mind they would turn out in droves for a game against Georgetown. Given that, I would say what we get is a non-conference game that is much higher in attendance - and local media coverage - than the usual assortment of cupcakes.
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1789
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Post by 1789 on Dec 9, 2014 3:08:13 GMT -5
Georgetown's priority should be focusing it efforts on getting the Big East back on track. Continuing the success of the Big East tournament at MSG should be the priority before spending resources on organizing a local gig. If we meet GW, Maryland, GMU, in the NCAA's then I'll care. Until then, too many other interesting teams to play.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 9, 2014 8:11:30 GMT -5
I am in favor of playing all local teams, anytime, anywhere. I would gladly play a 9:00 PM Friday or Saturday game at GW. BRING IT ON.
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Just Cos
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Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Dec 9, 2014 16:11:52 GMT -5
You can't compare playing WG to playing cupcakes unless WG is going to accept the same revenue structure as those cupcakes you mentioned.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 9, 2014 19:01:33 GMT -5
coach said hell play who he needs to to develope his current players NUF SAID. go hoyas and ps maryland we DONT owe you at game at your house you welched on our deal after the Cap center game YUP no tix no money after we gave you HALF our our house BYE BYE and mr feinstein why werent the twerps so concered about KIDS not in this years bbandt just wondering sir. GO HOYAS
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