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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 28, 2014 1:11:33 GMT -5
Anyone have a clue why JTIII has played practically no zone D so far this year? I would think that would help Hop and Josh avoid fouls and permit our new, faster, athletic big men to harass opponents more. Only thing I can think is that JTIII feels we have so much depth that we can wear opponents down playing tough man all game. Wisconsin would've murdered us had we played zone. They are one of the few teams in the country who have shooting from all five spots on the floor. You do not want to play zone against them. At all. We played plenty of zone against Florida. We...1) gave up numerous open looks, which was fine because Florida couldn't hit water from a boat....2) couldn't rebound the ball, which was not fine because that almost cost us the game. No coincidence that we rebounded the ball a ton better against Wisconsin. I'm very happy we didn't play one possession of zone today. JTIII's best coaching move against the Badgers
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Nov 28, 2014 1:40:24 GMT -5
Barely skimmed through the last few pages but some follow up thoughts to some previous ones:
- Those 'sconnie fans. Oh my God. I don't care about the jump-around as it is fun and semi-traditonal for them and whatever - but I remember during one specific moment in the 1st half, a poor old white guy's corpse with a red fedora was stuck in the crowd jumping along, and my only thought was that it looked like the poor guy had died a year earlier. Sad to watch.
- As good as Paul White has shown early on, I feel like his defensive rebounding is holding him/the team back so, so much. For every good play he made, and he made some great ones, he gave literally no effort on some rebounds that slowly slipped into Wisconsin's hands. I don't know where to emphasize my armchair coaching knowledge - at him or corch thompson - but to me, putting a body on basically anyone seems like a good place to start, and it's something I never saw him do.
- Josh Smith played well, and Jay Bilas had some very fair opinions about him amidst his usual fat jokes (which I enjoy). At one point, Bilas remarked that it seems Josh gets fouls just for being bigger. I'm not one to know the rules to their full extent, but it feels like he's right about that - refs aren't used to reffing with someone his size, and don't know what to do when someone gets nudged by a defender with a 200lb. advantage. Bilas even said that Josh had a 115 pound advantage on Kaminsky - a 7'er. Bump him against someone who's 6'8'' and of course they will move - but is it a foul?
- Thought DSR played well, but wish he would've slowed down and gotten more into the offense then his few late shots that were early into the shot clock in the last five minutes. He should be the one taking the shots, but I would like to see a wee bit of offense run before the blatant iso (a minor qualm). Easy for me to say as I type this from a chair - and starting 5-5 from 3 shuts me up from making this an actual complaint.
- Aaron Bowen was awesome, and I'm amazed how happy and I am to have him on the floor compared to past years. Tre Campbell as well killed it, especially on defense.
- I remember reading during Trawick's freshman year that if he developed a good 3 pt shot, he had a look at an NBA career. Same thought still holds, only that its now 3 years too late and he still doesn't have one.
- I don't want to talk about Hopkins because I'm not currently angry.
- Isaac Copeland was a 5 star in baseball, not basketball (but seriously, what's going on? I have no idea. Just too fast for him at the moment? His defense was terrible, much less the offense.)
- I remember Reggie actually having a pretty good defensive play or two, but don't remember anything offensively - do him and Stephen Domingo have the same shooting percentage this year for the Hoyas?
Ramble aside (and all of my unnecessary negativity out of the way), they got after it, knocked down some ballsy shots, played with a mean streak, and made some fouls count and hit people. Really enjoyed watching this game - the team wanted it bad and it showed, and should have come out on top.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 28, 2014 8:08:09 GMT -5
Barely skimmed through the last few pages but some follow up thoughts to some previous ones: - Those 'sconnie fans. Oh my God. I don't care about the jump-around as it is fun and semi-traditonal for them and whatever - but I remember during one specific moment in the 1st half, a poor old white guy's corpse with a red fedora was stuck in the crowd jumping along, and my only thought was that it looked like the poor guy had died a year earlier. Sad to watch. - As good as Paul White has shown early on, I feel like his defensive rebounding is holding him/the team back so, so much. For every good play he made, and he made some great ones, he gave literally no effort on some rebounds that slowly slipped into Wisconsin's hands. I don't know where to emphasize my armchair coaching knowledge - at him or corch thompson - but to me, putting a body on basically anyone seems like a good place to start, and it's something I never saw him do. - Josh Smith played well, and Jay Bilas had some very fair opinions about him amidst his usual fat jokes (which I enjoy). At one point, Bilas remarked that it seems Josh gets fouls just for being bigger. I'm not one to know the rules to their full extent, but it feels like he's right about that - refs aren't used to reffing with someone his size, and don't know what to do when someone gets nudged by a defender with a 200lb. advantage. Bilas even said that Josh had a 115 pound advantage on Kaminsky - a 7'er. Bump him against someone who's 6'8'' and of course they will move - but is it a foul? - Thought DSR played well, but wish he would've slowed down and gotten more into the offense then his few late shots that were early into the shot clock in the last five minutes. He should be the one taking the shots, but I would like to see a wee bit of offense run before the blatant iso (a minor qualm). Easy for me to say as I type this from a chair - and starting 5-5 from 3 shuts me up from making this an actual complaint. - Aaron Bowen was awesome, and I'm amazed how happy and I am to have him on the floor compared to past years. Tre Campbell as well killed it, especially on defense. - I remember reading during Trawick's freshman year that if he developed a good 3 pt shot, he had a look at an NBA career. Same thought still holds, only that its now 3 years too late and he still doesn't have one. - I don't want to talk about Hopkins because I'm not currently angry. - Isaac Copeland was a 5 star in baseball, not basketball (but seriously, what's going on? I have no idea. Just too fast for him at the moment? His defense was terrible, much less the offense.) - I remember Reggie actually having a pretty good defensive play or two, but don't remember anything offensively - do him and Stephen Domingo have the same shooting percentage this year for the Hoyas? Ramble aside (and all of my unnecessary negativity out of the way), they got after it, knocked down some ballsy shots, played with a mean streak, and made some fouls count and hit people. Really enjoyed watching this game - the team wanted it bad and it showed, and should have come out on top. Just for clarification, you think Josh gets fouled less than what is actually whistled for him?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 28, 2014 8:14:17 GMT -5
I think he means that Josh gets called for contact fouls that would not be called on a 275-pound guy. Also - can't we correct the misconception that Josh still weighs 350? Or do we like it that way for an intimidation factor?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 28, 2014 8:22:18 GMT -5
Josh gets hacked 2 or 3 times every play and it is not being called. He got called for a couple fouls yesterday where he had good defensive position and the Wisconsin player bumped him and looked a little off balance and a foul was called. That kind of contact was being let go most of the rest of the game by virtually all other players.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 28, 2014 8:40:06 GMT -5
The fact that we lost a game to a team that is currently #2 in the country and it's, arguably, a game we should have won says a lot about the group of guys we have this year. I can't remember the last time I was this excited about a loss. I know they missed a lot of open looks. So did our Hoyas. And our team is, comparatively, young. I expect more growth out of our team than Wisconsin fans should, likely, expect out of theirs. I'd love to see a rematch. When Bilas said something to the effect of "isn't it fun watching two teams that can score" I thought, when was the last time a commentator said something like that about the Hoyas? Couple that with Bilas again talking about running less in the way of Princeton sets and looking to play some high/low. But then mixing in AB's hard cuts in our typical offense. JT3 is using what he has in terms of personnel and doing it well. That sums it up for me, too. I liked the way we played high/low, post basketball. Obviously,that depends on Smith's ability to stay on the floor, but I think we had Wisconsin confused that we werent running the exact same sets we have for 7 years.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Nov 28, 2014 9:18:24 GMT -5
Its really refreshing we don't have to hear any crap about our offense or dungeon ball. It's funny when you recruit talented aggressive players how the offense looks. It seems like 3 is letting these guys play and not worried about forcing back cuts. Should be a fun season! Really like this team.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Nov 28, 2014 9:43:11 GMT -5
White's an EXCELLENT rebounder. Don't know what happened at points last night, perhaps waiting for someone else to rebound? Bowen's showing what I thought he would. Get a 3 and he'd be NBA material. Copeland needs to work on his conditioning and timing, that's it. Coach must not trust Hayes at all. Peak needs to be more aggressive; don't think he's taken more than 10 shots the whole tourney. in fact, on this 3rd consecutive day, i think he should be more aggressive because maybe he has more energy. i wouldn't have had a problem with Tre C. playing late in the game.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 28, 2014 9:51:35 GMT -5
Its really refreshing we don't have to hear any crap about our offense or dungeon ball. It's funny when you recruit talented aggressive players how the offense looks. It seems like 3 is letting these guys play and not worried about forcing back cuts. Should be a fun season! Really like this team. It's still too early imo to make proclamations about how JT3 has opened up the offense.. The team didn't break 70 against the 2 HM teams it has faced, contrast that against last season when they scored 75,90 & 84 against HM opponents to start the year, it's not dungeon ball but it's not smooth to watch either.. The team has only had 7 assists in each of the last 2 games, that's unacceptable for an offensive driven team..
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 28, 2014 9:54:06 GMT -5
Barely skimmed through the last few pages but some follow up thoughts to some previous ones: - Those 'sconnie fans. Oh my God. I don't care about the jump-around as it is fun and semi-traditonal for them and whatever - but I remember during one specific moment in the 1st half, a poor old white guy's corpse with a red fedora was stuck in the crowd jumping along, and my only thought was that it looked like the poor guy had died a year earlier. Sad to watch. - As good as Paul White has shown early on, I feel like his defensive rebounding is holding him/the team back so, so much. For every good play he made, and he made some great ones, he gave literally no effort on some rebounds that slowly slipped into Wisconsin's hands. I don't know where to emphasize my armchair coaching knowledge - at him or corch thompson - but to me, putting a body on basically anyone seems like a good place to start, and it's something I never saw him do. - Josh Smith played well, and Jay Bilas had some very fair opinions about him amidst his usual fat jokes (which I enjoy). At one point, Bilas remarked that it seems Josh gets fouls just for being bigger. I'm not one to know the rules to their full extent, but it feels like he's right about that - refs aren't used to reffing with someone his size, and don't know what to do when someone gets nudged by a defender with a 200lb. advantage. Bilas even said that Josh had a 115 pound advantage on Kaminsky - a 7'er. Bump him against someone who's 6'8'' and of course they will move - but is it a foul? - Thought DSR played well, but wish he would've slowed down and gotten more into the offense then his few late shots that were early into the shot clock in the last five minutes. He should be the one taking the shots, but I would like to see a wee bit of offense run before the blatant iso (a minor qualm). Easy for me to say as I type this from a chair - and starting 5-5 from 3 shuts me up from making this an actual complaint. - Aaron Bowen was awesome, and I'm amazed how happy and I am to have him on the floor compared to past years. Tre Campbell as well killed it, especially on defense. - I remember reading during Trawick's freshman year that if he developed a good 3 pt shot, he had a look at an NBA career. Same thought still holds, only that its now 3 years too late and he still doesn't have one. - I don't want to talk about Hopkins because I'm not currently angry. - Isaac Copeland was a 5 star in baseball, not basketball (but seriously, what's going on? I have no idea. Just too fast for him at the moment? His defense was terrible, much less the offense.) - I remember Reggie actually having a pretty good defensive play or two, but don't remember anything offensively - do him and Stephen Domingo have the same shooting percentage this year for the Hoyas? Ramble aside (and all of my unnecessary negativity out of the way), they got after it, knocked down some ballsy shots, played with a mean streak, and made some fouls count and hit people. Really enjoyed watching this game - the team wanted it bad and it showed, and should have come out on top. Post of the year!
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 28, 2014 9:56:46 GMT -5
White's an EXCELLENT rebounder. Don't know what happened at points last night, perhaps waiting for someone else to rebound? Bowen's showing what I thought he would. Get a 3 and he'd be NBA material. Copeland needs to work on his conditioning and timing, that's it. Coach must not trust Hayes at all. Peak needs to be more aggressive; don't think he's taken more than 10 shots the whole tourney. in fact, on this 3rd consecutive day, i think he should be more aggressive because maybe he has more energy. i wouldn't have had a problem with Tre C. playing late in the game. I have a man crush on white, but he wasn't boxing out against Florida either. To be fair, staff didn't have the time to coach him up between games, but I am sure this will be addressed.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 28, 2014 10:01:46 GMT -5
Josh gets hacked 2 or 3 times every play and it is not being called. He got called for a couple fouls yesterday where he had good defensive position and the Wisconsin player bumped him and looked a little off balance and a foul was called. That kind of contact was being let go most of the rest of the game by virtually all other players. Yeah I agree. The calls against him are largely pre-emotive because the refs have never seen a 320 pounder so nimble and skilled.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Nov 28, 2014 10:33:12 GMT -5
Josh gets hacked 2 or 3 times every play and it is not being called. He got called for a couple fouls yesterday where he had good defensive position and the Wisconsin player bumped him and looked a little off balance and a foul was called. That kind of contact was being let go most of the rest of the game by virtually all other players. This has been the fate of the Hoya big men since the Ewing era. It seems out of conference refs always have a keener eye for offensive and defensive fouls on Hoya big men. This has been shown true even when the opposing team had a center with comparable size and athletic ability like the center from Ohio State who was the beneficiary of all those touch fouls against Hibbert. I don't think Butler has anyone over 240 on their team so Josh could be in for a lot of time on the bench tonight. Don't really know of a solution other than better conditioning by Josh. The more agile he becomes, the more he is able to move his feet for positioning so he does not have to reach and will be able to beat his man to a particular spot on the floor.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Nov 28, 2014 10:57:13 GMT -5
Anyone have a clue why JTIII has played practically no zone D so far this year? I would think that would help Hop and Josh avoid fouls and permit our new, faster, athletic big men to harass opponents more. Only thing I can think is that JTIII feels we have so much depth that we can wear opponents down playing tough man all game. Wisconsin would've murdered us had we played zone. They are one of the few teams in the country who have shooting from all five spots on the floor. You do not want to play zone against them. At all. We played plenty of zone against Florida. We...1) gave up numerous open looks, which was fine because Florida couldn't hit water from a boat....2) couldn't rebound the ball, which was not fine because that almost cost us the game. No coincidence that we rebounded the ball a ton better against Wisconsin. I'm very happy we didn't play one possession of zone today. JTIII's best coaching move against the Badgers We played very little zone against Florida outside of their offensive possesions on out of bounds. maybe 2 defensive sets that i can recall. Which is about the total accumulation of the 3 previous games. Clearly the zone which,when run with the right personnel has been very successful over the years has been put on hold or abandoned. Even when we have run it its been a very passive 2-3 with very little on ball pressure like they have shown in the past and not a hint of anything resembling a matchup. I get that Smith can be a liability in it but its not like he is going to play 35 mpg. Its November i'm sure i maybe in the minority but given almost 8 weeks of practice i would have expected to see them working on developing a zone.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 28, 2014 10:57:30 GMT -5
Its really refreshing we don't have to hear any crap about our offense or dungeon ball. It's funny when you recruit talented aggressive players how the offense looks. It seems like 3 is letting these guys play and not worried about forcing back cuts. Should be a fun season! Really like this team. It's still too early imo to make proclamations about how JT3 has opened up the offense.. The team didn't break 70 against the 2 HM teams it has faced, contrast that against last season when they scored 75,90 & 84 against HM opponents to start the year, it's not dungeon ball but it's not smooth to watch either.. The team has only had 7 assists in each of the last 2 games, that's unacceptable for an offensive driven team.. The worse sign may be that the Hoyas shot over 50% and still looked as if they were struggling just to get to 60 points near the end of the game. Yes, there are turnovers and a lack of free throws to take into consideration but if this team wants to accomplish anything big it must learn to generate points to deliver knockout blows to opponents. The Hoyas IMO should have been up by 15 points during the second half but kept the Badgers within striking distance because of both a lack of aggression and execution on offense. Most of what Gtown did yesterday was very good, but rebounding and consistent scoring left a lot to be desired.
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rockhoya
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Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 28, 2014 10:58:52 GMT -5
Josh gets hacked 2 or 3 times every play and it is not being called. He got called for a couple fouls yesterday where he had good defensive position and the Wisconsin player bumped him and looked a little off balance and a foul was called. That kind of contact was being let go most of the rest of the game by virtually all other players. This has been the fate of the Hoya big men since the Ewing era. It seems out of conference refs always have a keener eye for offensive and defensive fouls on Hoya big men. This has been shown true even when the opposing team had a center with comparable size and athletic ability like the center from Ohio State who was the beneficiary of all those touch fouls against Hibbert. I don't think Butler has anyone over 240 on their team so Josh could be in for a lot of time on the bench tonight. Don't really know of a solution other than better conditioning by Josh. The more agile he becomes, the more he is able to move his feet for positioning so he does not have to reach and will be able to beat his man to a particular spot on the floor. Problem is he doesn't reach that much. No amount of improvement in his conditioning is gonna influence the refs to make calls any differently than they have been.
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harlemhoya
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Post by harlemhoya on Nov 28, 2014 11:37:31 GMT -5
I really like this team. I feel a lot better when Paul White is on the floor. Trawick still can't shoot or dribble, but he is "tough" whatever that means.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 11:41:35 GMT -5
Josh gets hacked 2 or 3 times every play and it is not being called. He got called for a couple fouls yesterday where he had good defensive position and the Wisconsin player bumped him and looked a little off balance and a foul was called. That kind of contact was being let go most of the rest of the game by virtually all other players. He gets the Shaq treatment…
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 28, 2014 12:50:45 GMT -5
Wisconsin would've murdered us had we played zone. They are one of the few teams in the country who have shooting from all five spots on the floor. You do not want to play zone against them. At all. We played plenty of zone against Florida. We...1) gave up numerous open looks, which was fine because Florida couldn't hit water from a boat....2) couldn't rebound the ball, which was not fine because that almost cost us the game. No coincidence that we rebounded the ball a ton better against Wisconsin. I'm very happy we didn't play one possession of zone today. JTIII's best coaching move against the Badgers We played very little zone against Florida outside of their offensive possesions on out of bounds. maybe 2 defensive sets that i can recall. Which is about the total accumulation of the 3 previous games. Clearly the zone which,when run with the right personnel has been very successful over the years has been put on hold or abandoned. Even when we have run it its been a very passive 2-3 with very little on ball pressure like they have shown in the past and not a hint of anything resembling a matchup. I get that Smith can be a liability in it but its not like he is going to play 35 mpg. Its November i'm sure i maybe in the minority but given almost 8 weeks of practice i would have expected to see them working on developing a zone. We played a ton of zone in the Florida game. It was at least 50-50, maybe more. If you have the game on DVR, go back and watch it. We played a lot of 2-3....that's how Florida got so many 3-point looks
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 28, 2014 12:54:19 GMT -5
It's still too early imo to make proclamations about how JT3 has opened up the offense.. The team didn't break 70 against the 2 HM teams it has faced, contrast that against last season when they scored 75,90 & 84 against HM opponents to start the year, it's not dungeon ball but it's not smooth to watch either.. The team has only had 7 assists in each of the last 2 games, that's unacceptable for an offensive driven team.. The worse sign may be that the Hoyas shot over 50% and still looked as if they were struggling just to get to 60 points near the end of the game. Yes, there are turnovers and a lack of free throws to take into consideration but if this team wants to accomplish anything big it must learn to generate points to deliver knockout blows to opponents. The Hoyas IMO should have been up by 15 points during the second half but kept the Badgers within striking distance because of both a lack of aggression and execution on offense. Most of what Gtown did yesterday was very good, but rebounding and consistent scoring left a lot to be desired. This is not a fair criticism. The pace on both ends was slow. There were less than five transition opportunities combined through the game. In a possession game, even if a team shoots it well, the score is going to have a tendency to be low. Both teams played well offensively yesterday. Other than us turning it over. But to use yesterday as a barometer of how much we should or shouldn't be scoring is not fair or accurate. Had the pace been quicker, we would've scored more points.
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