drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,378
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Post by drquigley on Nov 22, 2014 18:39:17 GMT -5
Couldn't get the game on TV so I can't comment on Hoyas performance today but reading all the posts makes me want to shout "CALM DOWN". We have not only played cupcakes so far but BAD cupcakes. Yes we won and yes our frosh frosh look good but have we really seen any major improvements in our big men? Beating quality teams like Florida and Kansas are going to require Hop and Josh to play at a much higher level and for a lot longer time. What happens when they get 3 fouls in the first 10 minutes, like you know they will. Do we have anyone who can contain other teams quality big men? I like this team and will enjoy watching them play a lot more than I did last years team. But I think we need to temper our enthusiasm until Josh and Hop (or Hayes) have shown they can play with the big boys. So just to clarify you didn't watch the game, and you're telling the people who did watch the game how to feel? I'm telling everyone. We have a great crop of youngsters but based on our first 3 games, one of which I saw and the other I read about exhaustively, we still haven't resolved our big man issues. And until Josh and Hop show they can be effective for 30+ minutes against quality opponents we need to avoid "irrational exuberance".
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Nov 22, 2014 18:57:47 GMT -5
So just to clarify you didn't watch the game, and you're telling the people who did watch the game how to feel? And until Josh and Hop show they can be effective for 30+ minutes against quality opponents we need to avoid "irrational exuberance". Josh Smith has two consecutive 20-10 games. After Josh was declared ineligible last season, our frontcourt combined (Lubick, Hopkins, Ayegba, plus Hayes) went for 20 and 10 once. Bears repeating: We got 20-10 total from our entire frontcourt in one Big East game last year, and Josh did it twice in a row. So yes, even accounting for the level of competition, I'm seeing one specific major improvement. I'm eager to see how he plays against a higher level of competition next week.
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aristides
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 341
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Post by aristides on Nov 22, 2014 20:01:07 GMT -5
I always enjoy the post game pressers (after a win). JT3's comments on DSR should settle down some of the concern on the forum regarding his lack of scoring. I'll paraphrase here but he basically said that the team is trying out different lineups and rotations but that when the smoke clears, DSR is going to get his points.
I'm assuming the smoke is going to clear by Florida? That game should be a great litmus test and I have high hopes for the team.
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nathanhm
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,041
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Post by nathanhm on Nov 22, 2014 20:13:27 GMT -5
So just to clarify you didn't watch the game, and you're telling the people who did watch the game how to feel? I'm telling everyone. We have a great crop of youngsters but based on our first 3 games, one of which I saw and the other I read about exhaustively, we still haven't resolved our big man issues. And until Josh and Hop show they can be effective for 30+ minutes against quality opponents we need to avoid "irrational exuberance". Oh I didn't realize you had read extensively about the other games. My apologies. Please let me know how many articles and message board comments you need to read before I have your permission to get excited about this team. I'll be waiting with bated breath...
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Nov 22, 2014 20:16:29 GMT -5
So just to clarify you didn't watch the game, and you're telling the people who did watch the game how to feel? I'm telling everyone. We have a great crop of youngsters but based on our first 3 games, one of which I saw and the other I read about exhaustively, we still haven't resolved our big man issues. And until Josh and Hop show they can be effective for 30+ minutes against quality opponents we need to avoid "irrational exuberance". Well, if you had seen the games, you might feel a little differently. Not that we're going to be a juggernaut down low or anything. But watching the games would allow you to see that Joshua is much more mobile on defense. That's a huge plus. And Hop has greatly improved his defensive and rebounding fundamentals. Also a huge plus. He's also cut down on some of the boneheaded plays. He still makes them here and there and, I grant you, these have not been pressure-filled games. That said, there's no reason not to be excited about their improvements. We played bad teams last year too and neither Josh nor Mikael looked nearly this good in those games. The fouling is still an issue for sure but that might be a little inflated against less than stellar opponents in that neither guy really feels like if he has to sit the game will be in jeopardy. With regard to the other guys, Tre is picking it up quickly. I LOVE the silkiness to PW's game and the arc on his jumper. Isaac looked better on defense today too which, for me, looked like his biggest struggle so far. Peak can do a lot of things on offense and he's picking up the defensive switches better. Lots to be excited about. What that translates to is another matter but, for now, I'm pumped to see into what kind of team this group can develop. Lots of upside.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 22, 2014 20:27:13 GMT -5
Couldn't get the game on TV so I can't comment on Hoyas performance today but reading all the posts makes me want to shout "CALM DOWN". We have not only played cupcakes so far but BAD cupcakes. Yes we won and yes our frosh frosh look good but have we really seen any major improvements in our big men? Beating quality teams like Florida and Kansas are going to require Hop and Josh to play at a much higher level and for a lot longer time. What happens when they get 3 fouls in the first 10 minutes, like you know they will. Do we have anyone who can contain other teams quality big men? I like this team and will enjoy watching them play a lot more than I did last years team. But I think we need to temper our enthusiasm until Josh and Hop (or Hayes) have shown they can play with the big boys. You didn't even watch the game....
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 22, 2014 20:47:57 GMT -5
I'm telling everyone. We have a great crop of youngsters but based on our first 3 games, one of which I saw and the other I read about exhaustively, we still haven't resolved our big man issues. And until Josh and Hop show they can be effective for 30+ minutes against quality opponents we need to avoid "irrational exuberance". Well, if you had seen the games, you might feel a little differently. Not that we're going to be a juggernaut down low or anything. But watching the games would allow you to see that Joshua is much more mobile on defense. That's a huge plus. And Hop has greatly improved his defensive and rebounding fundamentals. Also a huge plus. He's also cut down on some of the boneheaded plays. He still makes them here and there and, I grant you, these have not been pressure-filled games. That said, there's no reason not to be excited about their improvements. We played bad teams last year too and neither Josh nor Mikael looked nearly this good in those games. The fouling is still an issue for sure but that might be a little inflated against less than stellar opponents in that neither guy really feels like if he has to sit the game will be in jeopardy. With regard to the other guys, Tre is picking it up quickly. I LOVE the silkiness to PW's game and the arc on his jumper. Isaac looked better on defense today too which, for me, looked like his biggest struggle so far. Peak can do a lot of things on offense and he's picking up the defensive switches better. Lots to be excited about. What that translates to is another matter but, for now, I'm pumped to see into what kind of team this group can develop. Lots of upside. Wait, now. The man said he read "exhaustively!" Just want to clarify. Since he was so exhausted after all that reading, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he has got this entire season figured out. Please get some rest because we want you to be fresh for the rest of the season--the season that just got underway.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,392
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 22, 2014 21:07:20 GMT -5
i don't know... paul white is easily my second or third fav. hoya at this point. he rebounds really well and i think he'll be needed to do that when hop gets in foul trouble. I like Paul White too. Wish he were a little more aggressive in looking for his shot. He came in before Ike today.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Nov 22, 2014 21:16:41 GMT -5
i don't know... paul white is easily my second or third fav. hoya at this point. he rebounds really well and i think he'll be needed to do that when hop gets in foul trouble. I like Paul White too. Wish he were a little more aggressive in looking for his shot. He came in before Ike today. He looks more ready than Isaac right now. And he seems to be looking for his shot a little more already. I think that's a sign of good things to come. I thought Ronnie had some great comments today about Isaac and Aaron and PW especially.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,378
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Post by drquigley on Nov 22, 2014 21:17:48 GMT -5
Man you guys are tough. Don't have Foxsports 2 so I couldn't watch the last two games. As far as reading "exhaustively"... how about "I read all I could" about the second game. Look, all I'm trying to say is that until our big men show something against quality big man competition I'm not going "all in". I've been a Hoya fan for 50 years. I suffered through the Tommy O'Keefe and Jack McGee era teams. I paid my dues so cut me a break.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,392
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 22, 2014 21:24:34 GMT -5
Not that we're going to be a juggernaut down low or anything. Why not? I'm liking our pound it down low game!
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Post by hoyasaxa18 on Nov 22, 2014 22:25:05 GMT -5
Couldn't get the game on TV so I can't comment on Hoyas performance today but reading all the posts makes me want to shout "CALM DOWN". We have not only played cupcakes so far but BAD cupcakes. Yes we won and yes our frosh frosh look good but have we really seen any major improvements in our big men? Beating quality teams like Florida and Kansas are going to require Hop and Josh to play at a much higher level and for a lot longer time. What happens when they get 3 fouls in the first 10 minutes, like you know they will. Do we have anyone who can contain other teams quality big men? I like this team and will enjoy watching them play a lot more than I did last years team. But I think we need to temper our enthusiasm until Josh and Hop (or Hayes) have shown they can play with the big boys. I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can expect Josh to give any more than he has given. He's had two consecutive 20/10 games, not sure what else he has to do to earn credit for his obvious improvement.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Nov 22, 2014 22:44:53 GMT -5
Man you guys are tough. Don't have Foxsports 2 so I couldn't watch the last two games. As far as reading "exhaustively"... how about "I read all I could" about the second game. Look, all I'm trying to say is that until our big men show something against quality big man competition I'm not going "all in". I've been a Hoya fan for 50 years. I suffered through the Tommy O'Keefe and Jack McGee era teams. I paid my dues so cut me a break. I can send you DVD copies of the games you can't watch if you'd like. That said, early on in the season, regardless of the opponent, I tend to go on what I see (right or wrong) that looks different about each of the players that we saw last year to try to get an idea of what they've worked on. That was the only point I was making. Joshua dropping weight has really helped him to move his feet on defense such that his help defense is already quite a bit better than it was last year. Hop has put on some more muscle (though not, as far as I can tell, in the legs as much unfortunately) and has worked on his positioning for rebounds and has clearly worked on his defense in general. His rotations are better and he's more conscious of bad fouls. It helps too that he's played more 4. DSR is leaner and more muscular and is laterally quicker and faster in a straight line than he was last year. All of those things are fairly apparent and aren't all that opponent-dependent. You're right that we don't know much yet because we haven't had a strong opponent but there are definitely things to be optimistic about in terms of the personal improvements many of the guys have made. To a man, they all seem to have worked on using their hands less on D to avoid picking up the nickle and dime fouls. Jabril's stroke looks smoother than it did last year too. Cameron is leaner and faster up the floor and marginally quicker on D. Stroke looks good but still isn't falling for him just yet. Bowen is Bowen but smarter with his defense. He's moving his hands less and his feet more and it's working really well. Anyway...
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 22, 2014 22:55:17 GMT -5
Not that we're going to be a juggernaut down low or anything. Why not? I'm liking our pound it down low game! Agreed. Currently the top big man in the Big East is Matt Stainbrook. MATT STAINBROOK! So I like our chances in conference. Also Kentucky pretty much has every notable big in college basketball. So that leaves 300 and some teams for which Josh will be a tough matchup. I think we should be even more dedicated to getting it down low.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Nov 22, 2014 23:12:33 GMT -5
Why not? I'm liking our pound it down low game! Agreed. Currently the top big man in the Big East is Matt Stainbrook. MATT STAINBROOK! So I like our chances in conference. Also Kentucky pretty much has every notable big in college basketball. So that leaves 300 and some teams for which Josh will be a tough matchup. I think we should be even more dedicated to getting it down low. Well, Ronnie Thompson did say at one point during the broadcast something along the lines of no one in the country will be able to handle Joshua if he keeps working to get in shape and stays healthy.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,750
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 23, 2014 5:00:31 GMT -5
Lots to be pleased with today. Josh looks like he has turned a corner with his effort and energy. We still win big without DSR having to drop 15+. Some very nice dishes by LJ to go along with his innate scoring ability which we knew about. While we struggled against the 2-3 early on the ball movement later and ability of both Josh and Mikael to pass out of the double team was refreshing. Oh and how about the big fella going up for the alley-oop?! Excited to see how we do against a significant step-up in competition on Wednesday. Think it will be key to try and push the pace early and often. And if Josh could get Walker in foul trouble that will go a long way towards pulling it out. Looking forward to it! Hoya Saxa! Re: alley-oop to josh.....paul white has that passed mastered. He would throw it to Okafor a few times every game last year in high school.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 23, 2014 6:28:36 GMT -5
Man you guys are tough. Don't have Foxsports 2 so I couldn't watch the last two games. As far as reading "exhaustively"... how about "I read all I could" about the second game. Look, all I'm trying to say is that until our big men show something against quality big man competition I'm not going "all in". I've been a Hoya fan for 50 years. I suffered through the Tommy O'Keefe and Jack McGee era teams. I paid my dues so cut me a break. Just poking fun, bro. Just poking fun. We all know what you mean. I agree we do have somewhat of a big man problem. Hayes and Hopkins don't make me feel all warm and fuzzy. I still wish Josh was in better shape. However, I believe we still have enough to put up an effective inside-out game.
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nathanhm
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,041
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Post by nathanhm on Nov 23, 2014 7:04:00 GMT -5
Couldn't get the game on TV so I can't comment on Hoyas performance today but reading all the posts makes me want to shout "CALM DOWN". We have not only played cupcakes so far but BAD cupcakes. Yes we won and yes our frosh frosh look good but have we really seen any major improvements in our big men? Beating quality teams like Florida and Kansas are going to require Hop and Josh to play at a much higher level and for a lot longer time. What happens when they get 3 fouls in the first 10 minutes, like you know they will. Do we have anyone who can contain other teams quality big men? I like this team and will enjoy watching them play a lot more than I did last years team. But I think we need to temper our enthusiasm until Josh and Hop (or Hayes) have shown they can play with the big boys. I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can expect Josh to give any more than he has given. He's had two consecutive 20/10 games, not sure what else he has to do to earn credit for his obvious improvement. 30-15-10 or bust, anything else is cause for concern
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Post by daymondmyles on Nov 23, 2014 10:00:49 GMT -5
DrQuigley, it's completely reasonable not to go all in until we play quality opponents. But to say we haven't seen major improvements in our big men is just wrong. I've been to all 3 games so far and I can tell you (1) Joshua is much better than he was last year, (2) even last year's Joshua was better than last year's Moses/Nate who were the primary bigs other than Hop, (3) just having Joshua out there makes Hop better, (4) Hop IS better. He's not solid offensively but he's been much much better at defending and not picking up stupid fouls and rebounding. Our frontcourt clearly has weaknesses but it's far from what it was last year when it dragged the whole team down.
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Talos
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 612
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Post by Talos on Nov 23, 2014 10:42:29 GMT -5
Some quick observations:
- I'm glad Robert Morris played some zone to give us practice on our zone offense...and boy did it look like we needed it. We looked sluggish until White came in and began flashing to the free throw line. Every time we face a 2-3 zone, White needs to be on the floor and at the free throw line. Just like Otto against Cuse...
- I thought White's defense was great. I think he would have had more blocks if the refs had not overreacted several times. Just like in HS, he looked solid guarding guards, wings, and bigs. The only negative for him is his jumper looks bad once he gets past 17 ft.
- I love the way Josh uses his body when he catches a pass on the low block. Goes into his move immediately and faces aggressively without charging.
- Six months ago, I would have thought it was crazy to think that Copeland would be getting the least PT of all the four freshmen. He does look a little hesitant and uncomfortable in the offense right now. But I'm not worried about him at all; he's an incredible talent and he will be fine. Plus, we don't need him to be a stud this year anyway.
- I think the most impressive thing about Peak so far is not the points, explosive drives the basket, or smooth looking 3s. It's the fact that he doesn't force things or take many bad shots. At least from what I've seen, he seems very comfortable on offense and defense and never looks out of position.
- As others have mentioned, Cameron needs to start hitting his threes. I know it's only 3 games, but if he's not making 40%+ on 3s then he's not going to play much.
- After three mid-majors it will be interesting to see how we do against Florida. I'm most interested in seeing how Campbell matches up offensively and defensively against high-major guards.
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