drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 9, 2016 14:49:29 GMT -5
Yes, by all means, despite the fact that the staff has evaluated thousands of recruits and gotten close to fifty to come to Georgetown, let's evaluate JTIII and the staff on the performance of a single recruit, because that makes sense. My sentiments, exactly. I started to respond to that post, but I just let it go as yet another over the top comment. I don't think my comment was over the top. From what we've all seen, Tre is not a D1 caliber pg. Considering that he was a local kid who our staff should have had tons of time to look at, the fact that we recruited him and apparently expected him to replace DSR, reflects very badly on our coaching staff. And let's not forget some other recent flops, Lubick, Domingo, Moses, and Hopkins come to mind. Look all coaches will have hits and misses, Otto was a huge hit, but when you know going in that you will have a need for a key position player and come up with a Tre Campbell then something is wrong. I probably should have added that either something is wrong with our staff or something is wrong with our program, i.e. we can't attract top recruits. I will allow that the coaching staff may have recruited Tre because he was THE BEST WE COULD GET. But that's the subject of another thread.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 9, 2016 14:57:05 GMT -5
My sentiments, exactly. I started to respond to that post, but I just let it go as yet another over the top comment. I don't think my comment was over the top. From what we've all seen, Tre is not a D1 caliber pg. Considering that he was a local kid who our staff should have had tons of time to look at, the fact that we recruited him and apparently expected him to replace DSR, reflects very badly on our coaching staff. And let's not forget some other recent flops, Lubick, Domingo, Moses, and Hopkins come to mind. Look all coaches will have hits and misses, Otto was a huge hit, but when you know going in that you will have a need for a key position player and come up with a Tre Campbell then something is wrong. I probably should have added that either something is wrong with our staff or something is wrong with our program, i.e. we can't attract top recruits. I will allow that the coaching staff may have recruited Tre because he was THE BEST WE COULD GET. But that's the subject of another thread. He's not a Division 1 caliber point guard? Really? He's not one of the top 700+ point guards in college? That's a stretch, even for you. I don't think even the most ardent Tre haters on here would say he doesn't belong in D1. You lose all credibility when you make such statements. Just like your absurd claim that "we can't attract top recruits."
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 9, 2016 17:24:17 GMT -5
Yes, by all means, despite the fact that the staff has evaluated thousands of recruits and gotten close to fifty to come to Georgetown, let's evaluate JTIII and the staff on the performance of a single recruit, because that makes sense. Your right SF,but for me Tre has become the whipping boy for what in my mind is not evaluating or developing talent but a recruiting philosophy that doesn't seem to value real solid guard play. Ive been down on him since last year primarily because he played defense like a .. no just doesn't play it. i have no animus towards him I absolutely hope he turns into much more. When you have DSR playing 38 min game after game in a position he is still learning on the flysomethings wrong. In a game that has become much more guard oriented we are at a disadvatage on both sides of the ball. we never prepared to replace Starks clearly didn't have a defensive presence to fill the roll of Trawick nor his penetration ability and high 3pt % and we look forward to replacing DSRs 38 mins and maybe even Peak if he continues at his current rate. It just appears that the backcourt in the staffs eyes is almost an afterthought heck DSR pickup could almost be construed that way. I'm not nor was i ever looking for one of those 5 star guard recruits just get a couple of kids who can play on both sides of the ball and can contribute from day one in a meanigfull way. unfortunately we have but two spots open barring early exits and we will most likely give one to a semi-athletic wing. The future is not bright unless the Staff makes some radical changes. To be clear i'm not advocating radical changes to the staff. I don't think it's an afterthought -- and DSR wasn't, either. We recruited very hard for him and pushed him over several other players. Here's what I do think: * I think the staff is fine with combo guards and doesn't look for a pass-first point. And I think that can work if people develop, but has left us without a breakdown player, something that is super useful when the rest of the offense isn't working. * I think the staff has gone after some great guards and missed recently. * I think the staff has a bias against short guards that is likely changing with the recruitment of Lykes. * I think the staff made a couple of bad evaluation decisions -- namely on Josh Hart. * I'm not sure how guard development is a particularly bad issue. Starks, Trawick, DSR all developed as or better than expected. Peak actually seems to be getting there. Campbell has been a disappointment so far this year but it's tough to say that is systematic. I will say again -- I do not think there is a talent issue here. This team doesn't play well together on offense or defense. And that results in poor defense and a lack of easy shots. The team plays hard, but not incredibly hard. And I imagine the team works off the court, but not incredibly hard. That's a terrible combo, but I firmly believe there's a world out there where Tre Campbell is a damn good player.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 9, 2016 17:27:52 GMT -5
Of all the criticisms of JT3 and his coaches, if Tre turns out to be a real bust then this would be the one criticism that should stick, namely that they either can't evaluate talent or are unable to get the most out of it. Yes, by all means, despite the fact that the staff has evaluated thousands of recruits and gotten close to fifty to come to Georgetown, let's evaluate JTIII and the staff on the performance of a single recruit, because that makes sense. Here is your massive hyperbole. If Tre Campbell is a bust, then the staff either can't evaluate talent as a whole or are unable to get the most out of it. That's your statement. Your statement means that ALL OTHER PLAYERS are irrelevant in this discussion. Only Tre Campbell is relevant. That's what you wrote. We should take no other information into account. That statement is ludicrous.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 9, 2016 21:41:55 GMT -5
Okay so Tre could probably play for Bucknell. But if we expect to be a top D1 program then we need a real top D1 point guard. I'm sick and tired this year of playing top D1 teams that have point guards that run circles around us. As Lappas pointed out in our Seton Hall loss, DSR is playing both guard positions. How many times over the past few years did we seem to be playing 4 against 5. Usually it was because of our terrible big men but now it looks like it will be a guard issue. And all I'm saying is that unless we were unable to attract a top HS guard this is entirely due to our coaching staff's failure to appreciate Tre's limitations. So a year from now if Tre has suddenly blossomed and we are marching through the BE on our way to the NCAA tournament you can rub my comments in my face. But don't pretend that as we prepare for our 3 game homestead against SH, Xavier, and Butler you don't say to yourself "Maurice Watson had to go to Omaha to find a BE team that would take him?".
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 9, 2016 22:28:46 GMT -5
Okay so Tre could probably play for Bucknell. But if we expect to be a top D1 program then we need a real top D1 point guard. Btw, Bucknell has a three-game lead in its conference. Unless there is ahuge upset, they're probably a Tournament team.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 9, 2016 22:59:51 GMT -5
Okay so Tre could probably play for Bucknell. But if we expect to be a top D1 program then we need a real top D1 point guard. I'm sick and tired this year of playing top D1 teams that have point guards that run circles around us. As Lappas pointed out in our Seton Hall loss, DSR is playing both guard positions. How many times over the past few years did we seem to be playing 4 against 5. Usually it was because of our terrible big men but now it looks like it will be a guard issue. And all I'm saying is that unless we were unable to attract a top HS guard this is entirely due to our coaching staff's failure to appreciate Tre's limitations. So a year from now if Tre has suddenly blossomed and we are marching through the BE on our way to the NCAA tournament you can rub my comments in my face. But don't pretend that as we prepare for our 3 game homestead against SH, Xavier, and Butler you don't say to yourself "Maurice Watson had to go to Omaha to find a BE team that would take him?". In Tre's defense, Watson is an academic senior. This season hasn't been what we wanted, but Campbell's play hasn't been the only reason. And Watson has a lot of PT and practice time on him.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Feb 9, 2016 23:56:30 GMT -5
My sentiments, exactly. I started to respond to that post, but I just let it go as yet another over the top comment. I don't think my comment was over the top. From what we've all seen, Tre is not a D1 caliber pg. Considering that he was a local kid who our staff should have had tons of time to look at, the fact that we recruited him and apparently expected him to replace DSR, reflects very badly on our coaching staff. And let's not forget some other recent flops, Lubick, Domingo, Moses, and Hopkins come to mind. Look all coaches will have hits and misses, Otto was a huge hit, but when you know going in that you will have a need for a key position player and come up with a Tre Campbell then something is wrong. I probably should have added that either something is wrong with our staff or something is wrong with our program, i.e. we can't attract top recruits. I will allow that the coaching staff may have recruited Tre because he was THE BEST WE COULD GET. But that's the subject of another thread. This is moronic. Tre is a sophomore and was injured in the early part of the year as well. Likely, from watching him play, worse than was advertised. Regardless, Tre was never the second coming of anything. He was billed as a solid player. Nothing more. And he, likely, will be. Do we need to upgrade at the guard position? Definitely. To act like Tre was going to be the game changer is obtuse at best. When you start conflating guard issues with Lubick, Hopkins, and Moses, it makes you look stupid. They were not supportive at all of what you were trying to say. None of those guys were expected to be game changers. Moses was billed by Pops to be a shot blocker but he was also injured and never the same after the fact.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 10, 2016 0:21:36 GMT -5
I don't think my comment was over the top. From what we've all seen, Tre is not a D1 caliber pg. Considering that he was a local kid who our staff should have had tons of time to look at, the fact that we recruited him and apparently expected him to replace DSR, reflects very badly on our coaching staff. And let's not forget some other recent flops, Lubick, Domingo, Moses, and Hopkins come to mind. Look all coaches will have hits and misses, Otto was a huge hit, but when you know going in that you will have a need for a key position player and come up with a Tre Campbell then something is wrong. I probably should have added that either something is wrong with our staff or something is wrong with our program, i.e. we can't attract top recruits. I will allow that the coaching staff may have recruited Tre because he was THE BEST WE COULD GET. But that's the subject of another thread. This is moronic. Tre is a sophomore and was injured in the early part of the year as well. Likely, from watching him play, worse than was advertised. Regardless, Tre was never the second coming of anything. He was billed as a solid player. Nothing more. And he, likely, will be. Do we need to upgrade at the guard position? Definitely. To act like Tre was going to be the game changer is obtuse at best. When you start conflating guard issues with Lubick, Hopkins, and Moses, it makes you look stupid. They were not supportive at all of what you were trying to say. None of those guys were expected to be game changers. Moses was billed by Pops to be a shot blocker but he was also injured and never the same after the fact. Your talking to the same guy who was insinuating that there was something more than illness going on with Tre Campbell when he was out and then bungled his knowledge of HIPAA.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 10, 2016 9:48:25 GMT -5
You all are missing the point. I never said Tre was expected to be a game changer (although if you read the early posts of this thread many people thought he would be). I said that we knew two years ago that we would need a good point guard this year and presumably recruited Tre to fill the slot. The fact that he hasn't and doesn't show any signs of being able to reflects poorly on our coaching staff. Imagine if DSR had left. Also, appreciate what Maurice Watson has done at Creighton. As for Lubick and Hopkins, watching them play for four years was the most excruciatingly painful experience of my 50 years of Hoya watching. Again, no one expected them to be game changers but it was reasonable to expect they could take (never mind make) 6-10 foot jump shots, go to the rim without being blocked, and actually require our opponents to defend them. Sadly we are seeing signs of that again with Hayes. Other than his hook shot he is awful beyond 10 feet from the basket. Having Lubick flashbacks when I see him left totally alone at the top of the key looking desperately to pass the ball instead of JUST TAKING THE SHOT! And if I recall we were in a a recruiting war with Maryland to get Moses and were overjoyed when we won. Maybe not expecting a game changer but definitely expecting more than what we got. And in summary that is what I've been trying to say in these posts. I would love for us to have a Watson or Hart but I am concerned when a recruit for a key position like starting point guard looks totally lost on the court. Like I said, maybe he will blossom next year when DSR is gone and he will be running the offense. But in my (moronic) mind the biggest obstacle in our way to the NCAA tourney this year (besides getting Ike untracked) is our lack of an effective (not even sensational) point guard.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 10, 2016 13:10:53 GMT -5
You all are missing the point. I never said Tre was expected to be a game changer (although if you read the early posts of this thread many people thought he would be). I said that we knew two years ago that we would need a good point guard this year and presumably recruited Tre to fill the slot. The fact that he hasn't and doesn't show any signs of being able to reflects poorly on our coaching staff. Imagine if DSR had left. Also, appreciate what Maurice Watson has done at Creighton. As for Lubick and Hopkins, watching them play for four years was the most excruciatingly painful experience of my 50 years of Hoya watching. Again, no one expected them to be game changers but it was reasonable to expect they could take (never mind make) 6-10 foot jump shots, go to the rim without being blocked, and actually require our opponents to defend them. Sadly we are seeing signs of that again with Hayes. Other than his hook shot he is awful beyond 10 feet from the basket. Having Lubick flashbacks when I see him left totally alone at the top of the key looking desperately to pass the ball instead of JUST TAKING THE SHOT! And if I recall we were in a a recruiting war with Maryland to get Moses and were overjoyed when we won. Maybe not expecting a game changer but definitely expecting more than what we got. And in summary that is what I've been trying to say in these posts. I would love for us to have a Watson or Hart but I am concerned when a recruit for a key position like starting point guard looks totally lost on the court. Like I said, maybe he will blossom next year when DSR is gone and he will be running the offense. But in my (moronic) mind the biggest obstacle in our way to the NCAA tourney this year (besides getting Ike untracked) is our lack of an effective (not even sensational) point guard. A few things: - JT3 clearly has attempted to recruit high quality point guards, they just do not choose Georgetown. Now, you can blame the staff for setting their goals too high, but the idea that we are simply not trying is silly. - Contary to what people seem to think, Campbell had a very good freshman year, especially when you compare him to freshman year of our other point guards. He has never been a defensive dynamo, but his offense was good last year - he was efficient (112.6 O rating), he shot three's fairly well (36.2%), and he had a really low turnover rate. For a freshman guard who is outside the top 100, that's really pretty good. - Nearly every JT3 guard has improved from freshman to sophomore year. That has not been the case with Tre. I don't know if it is the injury/sickness at the beginning of the year or what, but clearly Campbell has struggled. His three point shooting is down (33.3%), his 2 pt FG's are way down (29.4%), and he's turning it over a bit more. Basically, he's regressed a fair amount in every offensive category. Why? I have no idea, but this is not the "norm" for a Georgetown guard. I don't know if it's a remnant of the illness he had, whether it's mental, or if he's simply not performing, but I am very confident Campbell can play a lot better than he is playing now. - I think it's unfair to keep bringing up Lubick and Hopkins. On the RSCI Lubick was 42nd nationally! A top 50 recruit. Hopkins' was a 98 on RSCI, but some services (ESPN) had him as high as 77. Again, a top 100 recruit. Both had other high major interest. Would I agree that both players were overrated? Maybe, but if so, it wasn't just the staff overrating them - it was just about every service that analyzes recruits! As for Moses, he was brought in as a project, so it's hard to say he fell short of expectations, plus his ACL injury clearly had an effect. As far as Domingo, that was a total whiff. And, I really don't think our lack of effective point guard play is the reason we might miss the tournament. I think it's because Issac Copeland has under performed, maybe followed by Campbell. But, I don't think it would be because Campbell isn't a good enough point guard, I think it's because he basically has contributed nothing on offense in any capacity since Xavier.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2016 13:41:20 GMT -5
What JT3 thinks of a PG in his offense: (starts at the 9:00 mark)
After the shock of this season, he might think otherwise. Time will tell.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 10, 2016 15:14:09 GMT -5
ok tre JUST SHOW EM VS ONE OF THE BEST POINT GUARDS IN THE COUNTRY ON SAT WE WILL SEE
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2016 16:43:57 GMT -5
What JT3 thinks of a PG in his offense: (starts at the 9:00 mark) Would someone please write what he says about floor general? I can barely hear or understand it.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 10, 2016 16:49:52 GMT -5
Agree that there has been no discernible difference between his play last year and this year. He still does not have a reliable left hand dribble, so the defense can eliminate the left side of the court when he is dribbling because he always goes to his right. I hope the young man does improve and show more than he has. We may have to wait until next year. The young man in my opinion has more of the Alpha Dog in him to play the pg than DRS but just does not have that left hand dribble yet so he is limited.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 10, 2016 16:55:51 GMT -5
As for Lubick and Hopkins, watching them play for four years was the most excruciatingly painful experience of my 50 years of Hoya watching. Apparently you stopped watching during the Esherick years. Also, tell us about the pre-JT2 years. Those must've been fun to watch, especially that 71-72 team.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 10, 2016 16:58:06 GMT -5
What JT3 thinks of a PG in his offense: (starts at the 9:00 mark) Would someone please write what he says about floor general? I can barely hear or understand it. If you listen really carefully, you can hear him say that having a floor general out on the court is overrated. He also says it's unnecessary to have a true PG on your squad. He closes by saying that Melo Trimble begged him to offer a scholarship to GU, but JT3 declined because he didn't want a PG of Trimble's caliber interfering with the Princeton offense.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Feb 17, 2016 23:01:48 GMT -5
I am beginning to wonder if Trey is even a d1 high major player at this point.
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on Feb 17, 2016 23:16:11 GMT -5
If given the opportunity, I would trade Tre for a random graduate transfer or freshman guard, sight unseen. There would be no downside to the deal, since it's not like you'd somehow less offensive production or worse defense. People complain about Lubick, but he rebounded and played competent post defense. All Tre has is speed, which he never uses to his advantage on the court, so it doesn't matter that he has it.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 17, 2016 23:20:09 GMT -5
The kid has zero confidence, and he plays like it at both ends.
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