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Post by grokamok on Oct 3, 2014 10:16:20 GMT -5
The downside of renewing these rivalries under current circumstances dwarfs the upside. Gaames against these schools would:
-- Put us at a considerable "home"-crowd disadvantage, unless played on campus, which just isn't going to happen. (Remember, any "split-gate" game against UMD at Verizon would still likely put more red/yellow-clad fans in seats than blue/gray, while counting as a home game for us from an RPI perspective. Alternating Verizon & Comcast would be even worse.) -- Provide better recruiting exposure for them (especially for Pitt) than for us. -- Detract from the Big East schedule at a time when we need to help build the Big East brand.
It's bad enough that we ignored these when agreeing to play Syracuse.
What happened to our outrage about the way Pitt approached conference realignment? And who's next -- the Mountaineers and BC? Are we really that desperate? For all that's good & holy, please stop the madness! We can get most of the upside with much less of the downside by trying to schedule home-and-homes with teams from the PAC 12, origninal Big 10 or Big 8/12, better SEC, etc., on a 4-game in 5- or 6-year basis.
The same considerations should be in play for 'Nova & the Johnnies, who hold the keys to the two other key Big East markets.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Oct 3, 2014 10:33:00 GMT -5
Principles are great to have.
So what are your ideas to fill the building and raise average attendance?
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Oct 3, 2014 10:41:26 GMT -5
Never hurts recruiting when you beat their asses. We'll have top 10-15 talent the next couple of years....bring em' on!
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Post by grokamok on Oct 3, 2014 10:53:09 GMT -5
Principles are great to have. So what are your ideas to fill the building and raise average attendance? Think long term. Build the BE brand. After that, the attendance will grow naturally. Use the home-home alternates suggested above from other major conferences or historical powers to gain decent attendance in the meantime, where the home crowd would be more in our favor, even if the total crowd might be a bit smaller. I'd rather have 12k Hoya fans and 4k UNLV fans at Verizon than 12k Hoya fans and 8k Pitt fans.
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Post by dungeon ball on Oct 3, 2014 10:56:18 GMT -5
I could do without Pitt. I don't think it really helps us with much of anything besides them being a quality opponent. And I hate looking at Jamie Dixon
But a series against UMCP is a win because it draws a lot of attention, both local and nationally (at least at first). It gets local recruits excited. Same with Syracuse
You can't NOT schedule these games because we'll get outnumbered in the stands. The way you fix that is by kicking ass, and becoming relevant locally again.
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Post by grokamok on Oct 3, 2014 10:56:56 GMT -5
Never hurts recruiting when you beat their asses. We'll have top 10-15 talent the next couple of years....bring em' on! Like in all of the other threads we've discussed these matters, why put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage where our better talent would run a greater risk of failing to get the W? This isn't about dodging a team (or teams), it's about dodging a bad situation in which to play that team (or those teams). (OK, with Pitt, it's a bit about dodging a team, but not for competitive reasons -- it's for how they handled realignment.)
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 3, 2014 11:14:18 GMT -5
Though I enjoyed playing Pitt, would still have to think long and hard about them, given the duplicitous manner with which they dealt with the Conference, but yes to UMCP.
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H2Oya 05
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Post by H2Oya 05 on Oct 3, 2014 11:37:38 GMT -5
Principles are great to have. So what are your ideas to fill the building and raise average attendance? Think long term. Build the BE brand. After that, the attendance will grow naturally. Use the home-home alternates suggested above from other major conferences or historical powers to gain decent attendance in the meantime, where the home crowd would be more in our favor, even if the total crowd might be a bit smaller. I'd rather have 12k Hoya fans and 4k UNLV fans at Verizon than 12k Hoya fans and 8k Pitt fans. On the flip side, our home schedule since the conference ended has been terrible. Home attendance seems down; I can't imagine UNLV drawing 12k Hoya fans. Even when we have good big east home games, some are at 9:00 on weeknights. As it stands, it is way cheaper to just buy single game tickets for the very few good home games (Kansas this year, Syracuse next year) than it is to buy season tickets. If we were in a position of strength, we could try to build the Big East brand, but we aren't. As it is, we are very similar to Memphis. The best way to help the conference is for Georgetown to win big games out of conference. There is no way we can pretend that even the top remaining Big East school, Villanova, is comparable to the schools the conference lost. The new practice facility should keep us relevant for a while, but absent a change in mindset (acknowledgment that we are in a mid-major conference and then going out and taking on the real majors out of conference) (or Georgetown finding a stronger conference to join), we are likely destined for mediocrity and irrelevance on the national basketball scene. Playing UMD and Pitt, while unsatisfying, is something that Georgetown needs to do.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Oct 3, 2014 11:39:33 GMT -5
I have zero issue with playing Pitt again. I'd welcome it. They have always been a great rival and some of my fondest recent memories were battles with Pitt.
I couldn't care less about Maryland one way or the other. What will be, will be.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 3, 2014 11:41:34 GMT -5
It's bad enough that we ignored these when agreeing to play Syracuse. It is a misconception that Georgetown 'caved in' with their agreement to play Syracuse. Expect ticket distribution for the Verizon game to operate the same way it did for the last Syracuse game at Verizon.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Oct 3, 2014 11:47:23 GMT -5
MD yes, UConn yes, other top OOC teams, absolutely. Pitt plays a similar style to Butler and doesn't have a presence now with MD in the B1G. I wouldn't schedule them. There are very few schools I wouldn't schedule but Pitt just has no upside to it.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Oct 3, 2014 12:16:52 GMT -5
I would schedule as many top-tier teams as possible. Heck, I would agree to play them on the road only, if that is what it takes. An OOC schedule with games @ UK, KU, You Con, & MSU would be fine with me. If they wipe the floor with us- so be it, and schedule them again as soon as possible. No fear. No focus on relatively small considerations, like home attendance in the short term. Let us beat UK in Lexington; I bet that would be get folks out to the phone booth for a tune-up against Arizona Plateau Valley State. We need to recruit kids who want to play anyone, anywhere, anytime, and use our schedule to do that.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 3, 2014 12:18:13 GMT -5
Another misconception seems to be that it's not a problem to schedule the high quality programs from the PAC 12, Big 10, Big 12, and SEC. While I am sure we could get games against some of the top teams from those conferences, we are far more likely to get games against schools that are relatively close in geography or with whom we have a tradition. Most of the old Big East schools all into one or both of those categories.
Pittsburgh would not be my first choice (I'd rather Connecticut or Louisville), but we have a history with them, they are often a high quality program, and they will help not only our strength of schedule, but also our home attendance.
The only legitimate reason I see for being against such a series is being angry about what happened with realignment and Pittsburgh's role in it. I understand that, but Jamie Dixon and Pittsburgh's basketball program had little to do with that. It was driven by football interests.
I think the arguments about recruiting are silly. Does anybody seriously think we are going to weaken ourselves or lose recruits to Pittsburgh because they play in DC at most once every two years? I suppose it could happen, but it's not likely to happen solely for that reason. In my mind, the benefits of having top quality home games on our schedule probably helps recruiting more than it would hurt.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 3, 2014 12:58:58 GMT -5
Here's a pretty simple standard borrowed from the canon of professional wrestling: does Pitt get good heat?
Judging by the thread so far, sure seems like it. After all, this thread doesn't exist off a rumor that we were going to play Clemson.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Oct 3, 2014 13:22:38 GMT -5
Pitt is dead to me. The only time I want to see someone from Pitt in Verizon is if A.) the circus is in town and B.) he/she is following an elephant with a shovel.
Can find teams with a similar profile that didn't stab us in the back.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Oct 3, 2014 14:19:13 GMT -5
I think UMCP makes sense - renew the rivalry, get some press. I think it would be advantageous to both programs, especially at the local level.
I don't agree with scheduling Pitt, but not because of anything they did in the past or because of some sort of downside to losing to them (that is so lame, BTW). If it makes sense for GU from a financial and basketball perspective, I would say go for it. But I just don't think it makes that much sense. One of the very few reasons to play that game is to renew the rivalry and play off the history between the teams. I don't think that is enough in this case. I just don't see that game as being something of national interest on the level of Syracuse, Kansas, etc. I guess my ultimate point is, "Why Bother?".
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Oct 3, 2014 14:32:06 GMT -5
I have zero issue with playing Pitt again. I'd welcome it. They have always been a great rival and some of my fondest recent memories were battles with Pitt. I couldn't care less about Maryland one way or the other. What will be, will be. Agree with you 100%. The Big East is not strong enough on its own...at least not right now. One player was drafted from the entire league last year.
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Oct 3, 2014 20:43:04 GMT -5
Is the game considered neutral court if we split ticket sales?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Oct 3, 2014 21:31:19 GMT -5
I have zero issue with playing Pitt again. I'd welcome it. They have always been a great rival and some of my fondest recent memories were battles with Pitt. I couldn't care less about Maryland one way or the other. What will be, will be. Agree with you 100%. The Big East is not strong enough on its own...at least not right now. One player was drafted from the entire league last year. The Big East being strong enough is a fair point for now. That being said, screw Pitt. For those that complain about the Georgetown style of play, a Georgetown/Pitt game is always a cement mixer. Their only value is their proximity to DC and there are better options in that regard. If we're shooting for a great OOC schedule, Pitt isn't on the list of teams that will be a "sexy" pick or put the most butts in seats. Maryland? Depends. I think there are better options than them too but, for the local prospects, I think that's a matchup that has value. Like blueandgray said, if your team is the one winning, that helps considerably. But who's impressed by a win over Maryland or Pitt right now? Schedule teams that are the media darlings if you can and, because they're darlings, they'll be expected to win. If the Hoyas win, it's all gravy. I'd rather us try (I don't know if we have or have not tried) to revive some of the matchups of the old Big East/ACC challenges.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 3, 2014 21:54:08 GMT -5
Pitt is a reprehensible organization whose athletic dealings demonstrate them to be an organization with absolutely zero morals. Add in that Dixon has Boeheim's whiny bitch at down without Boeheim's history with us or amusing press conferences, and we don't need to schedule them.
Plenty of teams want to play in and recruit DC. Screw the Panthers.
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