chep3
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Post by chep3 on Aug 5, 2014 10:35:25 GMT -5
For those who think Copeland should start over Peak I’m curious if you think Copeland’s outside shooting at this time is perhaps better than Peak’s ability to get to the basket? Do you feel Copeland would play better defense? Are you just more inclined to have a taller player at the three position? Did you always mentally jot in Copeland in the starting lineup at the end of last season based upon his high school rankings? I think a lot of it is PTSD from the three guard defenses we've put out there (although DSR-Peak-Jabril are a much taller group of guards than Chris-Jason-Austin). But it seems like we're not that deep at the guard spots, and so it might be tough to start 3 out there. It also seems to me that if we play Josh Smith a lot, we're going to have to be able to play a lot of zone (don't want him out there on high pnrs), and we'll be better at doing that with the increased length we'd get from starting White or Copeland at the 3. Also think it's helpful to have an aggressive scorer trying to carry the 2nd unit, whereas Copeland sounds like he'll play more similarly to a freshman Otto--chipping in all over the place and finishing plays rather than creating them. A second unit that could look like DSR-Bowen-White-Copeland-Hopkins might struggle a lot more on offense than a DSR-Peak-Bowen-White-Hopkins lineup. But, we'll have to see how things go. It'll all depend on who's ready to play.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 5, 2014 11:45:14 GMT -5
The starting lineup will depend on whether Smith plays or not. With Smith available, I like Copeland starting over Hopkins. I think JT3 will work Copeland into the starting rotation over time, much like he did with Porter.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 7, 2014 20:30:24 GMT -5
The starting lineup will depend on whether Smith plays or not. With Smith available, I like Copeland starting over Hopkins. I think JT3 will work Copeland into the starting rotation over time, much like he did with Porter. The Copeland versus Hopkins decision is going to revolve mostly around Copeland's defense. That's because I can all but guarantee that Copeland is a better offensive choice. Hopkins is horribly inefficient and a ballhog. And while he will take outside shots and doesn't look awful, the problem is he never really makes many of them. Copeland will create spacing by adding a player who can both shoot and handle at the four spot. He's a real stretch four offensively, and that's going to be hugely valuable, especially is Smith is around. On the flipside, though, the one area I can see Hopkins improving is the number of times he fouls. And if he's not fouling, he's a pretty good defender. I find it unlikely a freshman Copeland will equal that, especially early on. But if he's decent, I'm not sure how this is a better team with Hopkins doing anything but backing up Smith.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 7, 2014 21:39:07 GMT -5
The starting lineup will depend on whether Smith plays or not. With Smith available, I like Copeland starting over Hopkins. I think JT3 will work Copeland into the starting rotation over time, much like he did with Porter. The Copeland versus Hopkins decision is going to revolve mostly around Copeland's defense. That's because I can all but guarantee that Copeland is a better offensive choice. Hopkins is horribly inefficient and a ballhog. And while he will take outside shots and doesn't look awful, the problem is he never really makes many of them. Copeland will create spacing by adding a player who can both shoot and handle at the four spot. He's a real stretch four offensively, and that's going to be hugely valuable, especially is Smith is around. On the flipside, though, the one area I can see Hopkins improving is the number of times he fouls. And if he's not fouling, he's a pretty good defender. I find it unlikely a freshman Copeland will equal that, especially early on. But if he's decent, I'm not sure how this is a better team with Hopkins doing anything but backing up Smith. If Smith is good to go and Hop has improved with regard to fouling, it could lead to some flexibility with regard to offense/defense matchups in tight games. Though Isaac could cut into some of Hop's minutes, that might be a good thing for Hop by allowing him to stay aggressive on the defensive end where his game is further along.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Aug 10, 2014 19:22:43 GMT -5
For those who think Copeland should start over Peak I’m curious if you think Copeland’s outside shooting at this time is perhaps better than Peak’s ability to get to the basket? Do you feel Copeland would play better defense? Are you just more inclined to have a taller player at the three position? Did you always mentally jot in Copeland in the starting lineup at the end of last season based upon his high school rankings? Peak is a franchise ...
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Aug 11, 2014 14:08:52 GMT -5
For those who think Copeland should start over Peak I’m curious if you think Copeland’s outside shooting at this time is perhaps better than Peak’s ability to get to the basket? Do you feel Copeland would play better defense? Are you just more inclined to have a taller player at the three position? Did you always mentally jot in Copeland in the starting lineup at the end of last season based upon his high school rankings? Peak is a franchise ... I am late to this conversation, so if this has been discussed, I apologize. Why is the question about Peak starting vs Copeland starting at the 3 position, rather than Peak vs Jabril at the 2 position? I am a Jabril fan, but if Peak is for real( level of competition at Kenner assumed good) then it would seem his best position to dominate given his size would be from the 2 position. If reports are accurate his handle and jump shot are superior to Jabril's. I don't think there is anyone tougher than Jabril, so the ability to finish at the hoop would be at least a draw. If the conversation is limited to who will man the only open slot(position where there is no returning starter), then yes since Jabril is the projected starter at the 2 position rather than the 3 position where he started last year. I would love to see Peak initially coming off the bench to spell Jabril because of the time it takes to master III's offensive and defensive schemes. I envision Copeland as being a monster at the 3 position, given his size, handle and agility. The only question is his defensive ability. Peak could handle the 3 position in a small lineup just as Austin Freeman could, but why take away the dominance he would have over most 2's in the league. Austin played the 3 position because III did not have a better alternative with size, now he has three, Copeland, Cameron and White. If after the OC games Jabril's play has shown that he should continue to start, then Peak should continue to come off the bench. However, if Peak's play warrants him starting then III should not hesitate to switch. Healthy competition at each position makes for a better team. No one should be guaranteed a starting position based on seniority. That is the quickest way to go from a top ten recruiting class to a very mediocre recruiting class in a couple of years. I for one am as excited as I have been in the last 20 years over this collection of recruits in 2014 and 2015, and the full 2015 class is still TBD. Love it.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 11, 2014 14:58:30 GMT -5
I am late to this conversation, so if this has been discussed, I apologize. Why is the question about Peak starting vs Copeland starting at the 3 position, rather than Peak vs Jabril at the 2 position? I am a Jabril fan, but if Peak is for real( level of competition at Kenner assumed good) then it would seem his best position to dominate given his size would be from the 2 position. If reports are accurate his handle and jump shot are superior to Jabril's. I don't think there is anyone tougher than Jabril, so the ability to finish at the hoop would be at least a draw. If the conversation is limited to who will man the only open slot(position where there is no returning starter), then yes since Jabril is the projected starter at the 2 position rather than the 3 position where he started last year. I would love to see Peak initially coming off the bench to spell Jabril because of the time it takes to master III's offensive and defensive schemes. I envision Copeland as being a monster at the 3 position, given his size, handle and agility. The only question is his defensive ability. Peak could handle the 3 position in a small lineup just as Austin Freeman could, but why take away the dominance he would have over most 2's in the league. Austin played the 3 position because III did not have a better alternative with size, now he has three, Copeland, Cameron and White. If after the OC games Jabril's play has shown that he should continue to start, then Peak should continue to come off the bench. However, if Peak's play warrants him starting then III should not hesitate to switch. Healthy competition at each position makes for a better team. No one should be guaranteed a starting position based on seniority. That is the quickest way to go from a top ten recruiting class to a very mediocre recruiting class in a couple of years. I for one am as excited as I have been in the last 20 years over this collection of recruits in 2014 and 2015, and the full 2015 class is still TBD. Love it. Probably because Jabril is clearly one of our best three returning players and he's had a great Kenner that may portend to even better things. I mean, honestly, why would you cut Jabril's time just to play Peak at the 2? Especially at a team when the 2/3 split really doesn't mean a ton offensively and in a conference where many teams already go 3-guard. Of course, it doesn't need to be a Peak versus Copeland question, either. Frankly, the idea that Hopkins has significant minutes and a starting role sewed up is ludicrous. If Smith is back and has his weight down, this team has three talents that should get starter minutes: Smith, DSR and Trawick. There's two spots open to my mind; Peak has plenty of opportunity to grab one without it being Peak v Trawick.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Aug 11, 2014 15:26:16 GMT -5
Remember Jabril's fouling propensity. I think considering that, there are minutes to go around. I hope to get a Jabril jump as well but he had many games last year where he lost his cool or just picked up dumb early fouls and had to ride pine. There are going to be plenty of opportunities.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Aug 11, 2014 15:28:09 GMT -5
SFHoya99, I agree with you that you don't just give Peak a starting position based on his potential. His potential has to match his play and that has to be shown in practice. What I was merely saying is that Jabril nor any other starter from last year should be guaranteed a starting position just based on seniority. I believe seniority has its place though. If two players talents, and ability and practice sessions are about the same then seniority should dictate that the upperclassman plays. However, this should be decided by open competition amongst the players. That's all any player should ask for, an opportunity to start. If Peak can average 30 pts a game if he started but would allow 25 pts on defense or cause his big men to get in foul trouble trying to cover for his poor D, then obviously regardless of his offensive abilities he would not start.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 11, 2014 16:17:40 GMT -5
I am late to this conversation, so if this has been discussed, I apologize. Why is the question about Peak starting vs Copeland starting at the 3 position, rather than Peak vs Jabril at the 2 position? I am a Jabril fan, but if Peak is for real( level of competition at Kenner assumed good) then it would seem his best position to dominate given his size would be from the 2 position. If reports are accurate his handle and jump shot are superior to Jabril's. I don't think there is anyone tougher than Jabril, so the ability to finish at the hoop would be at least a draw. If the conversation is limited to who will man the only open slot(position where there is no returning starter), then yes since Jabril is the projected starter at the 2 position rather than the 3 position where he started last year. I would love to see Peak initially coming off the bench to spell Jabril because of the time it takes to master III's offensive and defensive schemes. I envision Copeland as being a monster at the 3 position, given his size, handle and agility. The only question is his defensive ability. Peak could handle the 3 position in a small lineup just as Austin Freeman could, but why take away the dominance he would have over most 2's in the league. Austin played the 3 position because III did not have a better alternative with size, now he has three, Copeland, Cameron and White. If after the OC games Jabril's play has shown that he should continue to start, then Peak should continue to come off the bench. However, if Peak's play warrants him starting then III should not hesitate to switch. Healthy competition at each position makes for a better team. No one should be guaranteed a starting position based on seniority. That is the quickest way to go from a top ten recruiting class to a very mediocre recruiting class in a couple of years. I for one am as excited as I have been in the last 20 years over this collection of recruits in 2014 and 2015, and the full 2015 class is still TBD. Love it. A solid argument. I only worry about whether Copeland is strong enough to get major minutes at the four this season, but I definitely agree with your take on Trawick.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 11, 2014 16:20:24 GMT -5
For those who think Copeland should start over Peak I’m curious if you think Copeland’s outside shooting at this time is perhaps better than Peak’s ability to get to the basket? Do you feel Copeland would play better defense? Are you just more inclined to have a taller player at the three position? Did you always mentally jot in Copeland in the starting lineup at the end of last season based upon his high school rankings? Peak is a franchise ... You've seen countless KL games up close over the years, Glide. Where would you rank Peak among incoming GU freshmen of the past?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 11, 2014 19:10:26 GMT -5
SFHoya99, I agree with you that you don't just give Peak a starting position based on his potential. His potential has to match his play and that has to be shown in practice. What I was merely saying is that Jabril nor any other starter from last year should be guaranteed a starting position just based on seniority. I believe seniority has its place though. If two players talents, and ability and practice sessions are about the same then seniority should dictate that the upperclassman plays. However, this should be decided by open competition amongst the players. That's all any player should ask for, an opportunity to start. If Peak can average 30 pts a game if he started but would allow 25 pts on defense or cause his big men to get in foul trouble trying to cover for his poor D, then obviously regardless of his offensive abilities he would not start. I don't think anyone should be guaranteed a spot based on seniority. When I say Trawick over anyone right now, it's based on my estimation of his performance versus my estimate of others' performance, along with some added value for having players who have played (defense) together continue to do so. Obviously, if Peak is clearly better than everyone else, then by all means, he should get the PT. But the point of my comment is that I think it is much more likely Peak and Trawick are amongst the best five on the team than Trawick is not a Top 5 player. As to who plays 2 and who plays 3, I don't care much. I just think it is unlikely that the 3 position is so clearly held by someone else that it becomes a Peak/Trawick discussion. For me, that would mean that two of Copeland, White and Hopkins are clearly better than Trawick and Peak. And I just don't see that as likely.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 11, 2014 21:41:23 GMT -5
I thought the question was who starts the first game of the season. I'll stick with typical JT3 MO and say Smith (if available), Hops, Copeland, Jabril, and DSR. What happens after the 16:00 mark of the first half and who ends up playing the most minutes is anyone's guess.
Should we start the (new/annual) threads on mpg, ppg and rotation expectations for the season or should we wait to get confirmation on Smith?
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Aug 11, 2014 22:15:25 GMT -5
Speaking of Smith, is there anyone on this board who has a cousin, who has a friend, who has a sister, that works with an aunt of Smith, who has a picture of Joshua in gym shorts and jersey, taken this summer, that shows how much weight he has lost ( or gained)?
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 12, 2014 0:10:24 GMT -5
I thought the question was who starts the first game of the season. I'll stick with typical JT3 MO and say Smith (if available), Hops, Copeland, Jabril, and DSR. What happens after the 16:00 mark of the first half and who ends up playing the most minutes is anyone's guess. Should we start the (new/annual) threads on mpg, ppg and rotation expectations for the season or should we wait to get confirmation on Smith? I really wouldn't be at all surprised if Bowen got the start to the season but was the first sub...just to set the tone of high activity. Obviously that 3 spot is the most up for grabs if the freshman can perform in practice but I'm not sure if any will grab the position outright. As far as the thread on next season, nows as good of a time as any but I was going to wait a few more weeks.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 12, 2014 0:16:21 GMT -5
I thought the question was who starts the first game of the season. I'll stick with typical JT3 MO and say Smith (if available), Hops, Copeland, Jabril, and DSR. What happens after the 16:00 mark of the first half and who ends up playing the most minutes is anyone's guess. Should we start the (new/annual) threads on mpg, ppg and rotation expectations for the season or should we wait to get confirmation on Smith? Since I asked the question, no, it wasn't the first game of the season. It was more of a mid-tend of season question. I always feel like the first game is a cop-out question. I don't really care about people estimations of the players on day one combined with their view of Thompson's early season choices -- I want to know where people think the team will settle.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Aug 12, 2014 1:35:01 GMT -5
Here's how I would go with my five
1 - DSR 2 - LJ Peak 3 - Jabril 4 - Copeland 5 - Josh Smith
Here's why: Basketball right now is all about spacing. Whether Mikael is brilliant defensively or not, we are not a better team with him starting and playing major minutes. If he plays 15-20 min a game I can handle that. If he plays any more, then his flaws really hinder us (mindless turnovers, lack of BB IQ, inability to make offensive plays, despite high usage)
If he starts, then our entire offense suffers. Josh won't have space to do his thing, teams will gang up on DSR, etc. Neither Jabril nor LJ are knockdown shooters. But both are very good ball in hand, and both can get to the rack, draw fouls and score. And both can make three's, despite being more scorers than shooters. With this lineup, Copeland gives us a power forward who can at least be a threat out to three-point range and at least make plays off the dribble. Yes he's green. No he hasn't played a minute of college basketball, yada yada. All I know is that our offense was hard to watch out there last season. And I know that Mikael and Aaron are both backups. I hope if III doesn't start them that they exhibit good attitudes, and contribute in every way they can. Because in short spurts, both can make positive plays. But neither are starters, and just because the freshmen are freshmen doesn't mean that we shouldn't throw them straight into the fire
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 12, 2014 6:39:07 GMT -5
News flash Henry was way worse for 3 years and now he's a legit big man lets give our guys the benefit of the doubt and see what happens, tts.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Aug 12, 2014 6:41:25 GMT -5
Based upon Kenner, where will the 3 pt. shooting come from this year? Lots of candidates but from what I can tell the only pure shooter from that distance is Cameron and he comes with defensive questions. DSR is streaky and seems best suited for the mid-range shot. Jabril is also very streaky though he showed signs of coming on last year. Bowen--not from distance. Ditto for Peak and Campbell. Copeland? White? If Smith is going to be successful in the offense the Hoyas have to be able to stretch the defense.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 12, 2014 7:27:21 GMT -5
Based upon Kenner, where will the 3 pt. shooting come from this year? Lots of candidates but from what I can tell the only pure shooter from that distance is Cameron and he comes with defensive questions. DSR is streaky and seems best suited for the mid-range shot. Jabril is also very streaky though he showed signs of coming on last year. Bowen--not from distance. Ditto for Peak and Campbell. Copeland? White? If Smith is going to be successful in the offense the Hoyas have to be able to stretch the defense. Good question. Regarding 3's, this year's team only needs to make up for Markel's production last year. Looking at the numbers, it's not a big hole to cover as he averaged 1.7 3's made pg of 5.3 3's attempted pg for 32.6%. What needs to happen is that Reggie needs to improve his 32% (0.8 of 2.4), not good at all for a pure shooter, and for Smith and the rest of the team to improve the inside scoring so it opens up the perimeter shooters. With a little improvement from Reggie, there will be less long rebounding and opportunities for the other team to counter quickly. An improved Reggie along with Copeland, Peak, an improved Jabril and DSR should cover for Markel's production and could easily make GU a better 3-pt shooting team than last year.
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