TC
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Post by TC on Apr 18, 2017 14:41:00 GMT -5
No, I mean always, we're not going to be competitive in getting top 10, maybe even top 25 players, so we should be realistic and shoot down farther. Of the guys you listed, the only one who was a top 10 player was Monroe, and that was coming off the Final Four season. We don't win recruiting wars with Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and UNC for their targets. It's just not going to happen, and if Patrick focuses on recruiting on those guys, I think we'll be worse off than we have the last 8 years.
Can we occasionally land a top 20-50 guy, like Wright, or Freeman, or Porter or Tremont Waters? Sure. But focusing in on the Noels, the Christmases, the Stones, the Rabbs - it has screwed us out of so many other opportunities. We need to be a lot more realistic.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 18, 2017 14:46:02 GMT -5
No, I mean always, we're not going to be competitive in getting top 10, maybe even top 25 players, so we should be realistic and shoot down farther. Of the guys you listed, the only one who was a top 10 player was Monroe, and that was coming off the Final Four season. We don't win recruiting wars with Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and UNC for their targets. It's just not going to happen, and if Patrick focuses on recruiting on those guys, I think we'll be worse off than we have the last 8 years. Can we occasionally land a top 20-50 guy, like Wright, or Freeman, or Porter or Tremont Waters? Sure. But focusing in on the Noels, the Christmases, the Stones, the Rabbs - it has screwed us out of so many other opportunities. We need to be a lot more realistic. I think realism is important. And, unless we get ace recruiting assistants, we aren't going to be getting top 10-20 guys easily in the next couple of years. But what you said isn't entirely true. We got Porter when he was being recruited by Kansas; we got Tyler Adams, who had been recruited by Duke, and we got Monroe, who was also recruited by Duke. I do agree that we aren't going to get guys like Monroe to commit barring success on the court. If we made another Final Four, suddenly we'd get a lot of interest. I still think we need to try to get as many of these 5 star types as possible, within the realm of being reasonable. No, we didn't get Rabb or Noel, and others, but even getting just one of them would have made a big difference. I think you need to try, while also being realistic (for example, it would be silly to be all in on someone like Noel or Rabb with no backup plan). And while it didn't work well outside Peak, we did get three guys in the Class of 2014 who were top 20-50 guys. The problem is only one of the three panned out to anything.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Apr 18, 2017 14:56:14 GMT -5
No, I mean always, we're not going to be competitive in getting top 10, maybe even top 25 players, so we should be realistic and shoot down farther. Of the guys you listed, the only one who was a top 10 player was Monroe, and that was coming off the Final Four season. We don't win recruiting wars with Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and UNC for their targets. It's just not going to happen, and if Patrick focuses on recruiting on those guys, I think we'll be worse off than we have the last 8 years. Can we occasionally land a top 20-50 guy, like Wright, or Freeman, or Porter or Tremont Waters? Sure. But focusing in on the Noels, the Christmases, the Stones, the Rabbs - it has screwed us out of so many other opportunities. We need to be a lot more realistic. I don't disagree that recruiting against the Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke of the world is usually going to be a losing proposition, but I don't think you need to completed give up on any kid just because those blue bloods are also after him. I think that Patrick Ewing gives Georgetown a chance to compete with those schools on some of the highly rated recruits, especially the big men, who see a value in being coached/developed by a hall of fame player. You are still likely to lose out more than you will win on those players, but if you can pull one of those players every 3rd or 4th year, then it is worth the effort. Then you add in a handful of top 50-100 kids and you end up with a really good roster. I think the real key is reading these recruits correctly to determine if they have a real interest in Georgetown or not. It seems really obvious some of these kids are absolutely one and done players and only have an interest in the blue blood programs. There is no need to waste any time on those kids. The kids that are serious and seem to value what Georgetown and Ewing offer them should be pursued and maybe you get lucky everyone few years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 15:31:51 GMT -5
Only 1 of those kids was signed in the last 8 years and that was through a relationship with an Assistant...There's always some nuance to it but TC makes a good point. Would you rather have a Ryan Arch signed or a Greg Monroe?
Pretty clear in hindsight we should have taken a Daquan Bracey instead of waiting on a more highly rated player like Woods for example, and there are many examples. Having a strategy or a "type" of player you recruit ala Huggins seems to work out well for a lot of programs. Majority of kids they sign, the average fan has no clue about until he hits you for about 20. Then you're like, where did that guy come from?
It's not all coaching, anybody that saw him in HS knew Daxter Miles was a stud. They spend their time recruiting in gyms the Calipari's and Coach K's do not. Scouting a lot of kids off the radar... We don't have to dive that deep, but highly rated 4 stars are kids you can get in and lock down while the big boys are showing love to the 5 stars...
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 18, 2017 15:36:10 GMT -5
No, I mean always, we're not going to be competitive in getting top 10, maybe even top 25 players, so we should be realistic and shoot down farther. Of the guys you listed, the only one who was a top 10 player was Monroe, and that was coming off the Final Four season. We don't win recruiting wars with Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and UNC for their targets. It's just not going to happen, and if Patrick focuses on recruiting on those guys, I think we'll be worse off than we have the last 8 years. Can we occasionally land a top 20-50 guy, like Wright, or Freeman, or Porter or Tremont Waters? Sure. But focusing in on the Noels, the Christmases, the Stones, the Rabbs - it has screwed us out of so many other opportunities. We need to be a lot more realistic. I get what you are saying. I don't necessarily agree, but I can generally see your point. I guess my issue is that I think the lines you are trying to draw are not as clear as you would like them to be. To start with, you are underselling Freeman. He was #14 in RSCI back in 2007 - above James Harden and Blake Griffin, among others. Second, I think you chose some poor examples of recruits who were long shots. I mean of the four you listed, only one went to a blue blood: Noel. Christmas went to Syracuse. Rabb went to Cal. Stone went to MD. I think it goes without saying that we can recruit against all of those schools...right?
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Apr 18, 2017 15:45:44 GMT -5
No, I mean always, we're not going to be competitive in getting top 10, maybe even top 25 players, so we should be realistic and shoot down farther. Of the guys you listed, the only one who was a top 10 player was Monroe, and that was coming off the Final Four season. We don't win recruiting wars with Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and UNC for their targets. It's just not going to happen, and if Patrick focuses on recruiting on those guys, I think we'll be worse off than we have the last 8 years. Can we occasionally land a top 20-50 guy, like Wright, or Freeman, or Porter or Tremont Waters? Sure. But focusing in on the Noels, the Christmases, the Stones, the Rabbs - it has screwed us out of so many other opportunities. We need to be a lot more realistic. I get what you are saying. I don't necessarily agree, but I can generally see your point. I guess my issue is that I think the lines you are trying to draw are not as clear as you would like them to be. To start with, you are underselling Freeman. He was #14 in RSCI back in 2007 - above James Harden and Blake Griffin, among others. Second, I think you chose some poor examples of recruits who were long shots. I mean of the four you listed, only one went to a blue blood: Noel. Christmas went to Syracuse. Rabb went to Cal. Stone went to MD. I think it goes without saying that we can recruit against all of those schools...right? I think the Hoyas can recruit against just about anyone, with the exception of a few of the blue bloods, when they are winning and having some success in the NCAA's. The problem has been we have not had that consistent success for a few years and that makes it tough to compete for even some of those 4 star kids who want the opportunity to play in those big games in the tournament. It is not a new thought, but winning, along with the new staff and style of play will make the Hoyas a more attractive landing spot.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 18, 2017 15:49:46 GMT -5
Agree about expending too much of our resources on top-25 kids. That said, Pat may have a good shot with the right big. We can selectively go after top kids, but really focus on top 25-75.
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Post by bicentennial on Apr 18, 2017 16:10:08 GMT -5
If chasing Jaren's son is a mistake, then the Georgetown coach had better make that mistake 100% of the time.....especially when he is a projected lottery pick. Why? We wasted the last decade chasing guys like this, Rabb, Christmas, Noel - none of them ever pan out. It's a trap. Recruit some guys we can get and who'll stay long enough to improve so that we can be good. The Villanova formula isn't to get one-and-doners. This isn't about chasing Rabb, Christmas or Noel, this is about recruiting the son of a Georgetown player and graduate who happened to be a top 5 pick? The issue is that slow playing others to hold a spot for a player who has us listed with Blue Bloods has not worked to our advantage except when we have done well in the NCAAs. The last several years failures in the NCAAs repeatedly hurt our ability to recruit some of these top players. Moreover from what B&G said, perhaps JTIII not putting in the time to visit the kids to show them how important they are was contributing!
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Apr 18, 2017 16:33:50 GMT -5
Good luck telling a former #1 recruit who came here not to focus on highly ranked recruits. And don't tell me about how the game and scene have changed. There will be instances where we can and should target top guys. There will be times when it is a waste of limited resources. But categorical "it's always wrong" comments are just silly.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Apr 18, 2017 20:52:13 GMT -5
Jaren Jackson is an absolute stud. I didn't watch a ton of him until this year but he's easily one of the best players in the 2018 class and has a game made for the NBA. Would've been great to get him.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jun 21, 2018 17:25:10 GMT -5
A lock for a Top 5 Draft slot tonight. Congratulations to the whole Jackson family. #firstnewsouth #Hoya89ers
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Jun 21, 2018 23:30:34 GMT -5
A lock for a Top 5 Draft slot tonight. Congratulations to the whole Jackson family. #firstnewsouth #Hoya89ers CONGRATS, Jaren Sr. and family!
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Jun 22, 2018 11:16:18 GMT -5
Why are we bumping this thread to give congrats to a Spartan? Neither Jaren cares about GTown anymore but yet we keep giving props to a family that felt so disrespected by the school that he never elbowed his son a little in his alma mater's direction...smh
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 22, 2018 12:05:07 GMT -5
Why are we bumping this thread to give congrats to a Spartan? Neither Jaren cares about GTown anymore but yet we keep giving props to a family that felt so disrespected by the school that he never elbowed his son a little in his alma mater's direction...smh I wonder if he would’ve played for Pat? Does Jaren have another kid?
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Jun 22, 2018 12:21:01 GMT -5
Why are we bumping this thread to give congrats to a Spartan? Neither Jaren cares about GTown anymore but yet we keep giving props to a family that felt so disrespected by the school that he never elbowed his son a little in his alma mater's direction...smh I wonder if he would’ve played for Pat? Does Jaren have another kid? Good question? I hate to come across as a grumpy old man but man the thought of Jaren and Tremont in blue and gray had me seeing stars 2yrs ago....😭
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Gammo
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Post by Gammo on Jun 25, 2018 4:40:15 GMT -5
Forgive me for speaking out of place Seaweed, but, at the risk of allowing too much personal insight in a blog, I will offer an answer to the question.
The bump of the thread is about Jaren the Georgetown student and floor mate. I also was on First New South 85-86 with Jaren and Seaweed. The four Hoyas who lived on the floor with us were the definition of cool. Bobby, Charles, Jaren and Jonathan.
Back to Jaren. He was so fun, nice, smart, dedicated to his academics - much more so than I was, I can assure you. But mostly he was joyful and hilarious, and he always had us laughing.
So I think this was just a shout out to a really good guy, wishing him and his family all the best.
An absolutely excellent and appropriate post from my perspective. Well offered as usual SW!
Mark
PS The thought of our current team, with the all the great new additions to the team, has me seeing stars for the coming years!!
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jun 26, 2018 8:51:22 GMT -5
Forgive me for speaking out of place Seaweed, but, at the risk of allowing too much personal insight in a blog, I will offer an answer to the question. The bump of the thread is about Jaren the Georgetown student and floor mate. I also was on First New South 85-86 with Jaren and Seaweed. The four Hoyas who lived on the floor with us were the definition of cool. Bobby, Charles, Jaren and Jonathan. Back to Jaren. He was so fun, nice, smart, dedicated to his academics - much more so than I was, I can assure you. But mostly he was joyful and hilarious, and he always had us laughing. So I think this was just a shout out to a really good guy, wishing him and his family all the best. An absolutely excellent and appropriate post from my perspective. Well offered as usual SW! Mark PS The thought of our current team, with the all the great new additions to the team, has me seeing stars for the coming years!! What he said. And Jaren Sr. cares enough about GU to attend his reunions, so I am looking forward to seeing him next Spring. And you Gammo. Peace brother.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 24, 2018 0:04:24 GMT -5
Not sure this belongs here.....but Jaren Jackson Jr is crushing it at the next level. Just went for 27 and 9 in a win against the Lakers.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 27, 2018 16:42:31 GMT -5
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