geedell
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Post by geedell on Oct 14, 2014 9:44:41 GMT -5
So is he coming Friday?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 14, 2014 15:32:40 GMT -5
I agree with Ranch. If the guy is a Churchwell-like player then I would pass. Churchwell was on some of the very first GU teams I followed and I had hopes for him, but he never truly developed. Great athlete (was a highly regarded track star in high school) who had a nice ten foot jumper, but his game never really developed and he and his fellow teammates couldn't score even when defenses packed in on Mourning and Mutombo (and later Othella). Plus, though it wasn't his fault, Churchwell's presence on the team in the end ultimately reminded me that Grant Hill should have been starting in his place over the course of those same four seasons. I realize Churchwell had a cup of coffee in the NBA and all but still.... What does Churchwell's alleged non development have to do with Pugh MCI? Similar game/style doesn't naturally equate to similar career path imo.. PrHoya put it in nice terms twice in this thread but I'll be more blunt, Churchwell was a better player than Jabril.. I'll also say this if a poster thinks a future recruit reminds them of Jabril, I'd say go get him.. How folks can say pass on a 6-7 kid with a 7-3 wingspan and a developing game because posters think he's similar to a past player is beyond me.. Right, Etomic. I wouldn't mind another 6'6" role player with the following career numbers: FGs 44% 3FGs 37% FTs 72% PTs 9.8 RBs 5.2 Asts 1.5.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Oct 14, 2014 15:57:49 GMT -5
Let's clone 5 Robert Churchwells and go to the NIT. Great idea. My lord. That guy was average...at best. C'mon people. We should be shooting for Top 50 recruits with high potential, unless we strike out and need to backfill with suhm randuhm doods.
Btw, I'm not saying to pass on Pugh. My point is that if Pugh is indeed "Robert Churchwell" then with a wafty wave under the nose, I say move along...
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 14, 2014 16:46:43 GMT -5
Ah...no. Churchwell was a mediocre Big East player on some of JT's worst teams. It was his team in 1992-93 that broke the NCAA streak by going to NIT. Those are years I'd like to forget. If we are looking to clone a bunch Robert Churchwells, we are not shooting to be a Top 20 ish, nationally relevant team. Nobody called for a bunch of Robert Churchwells; we only need one. I would've taken him over any of the '13-'14 players not named Starks or DSR (excluding Smith). We wouldn't have played 2-vs-5 in offense.Did you miss the early 90s in which Churchwell was hardly guarded (attention was paid to the Gtown bigs) and barely managed double-figures for only one season DESPITE starting for all four years and playing in a less restrained offensive system? The same guy whose shooting percentage went down during his final two seasons? That's the guy who would have made the difference?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 17:02:38 GMT -5
I don’t think the comparison to Churchwell is an accurate one. Just my opinion..
Pugh’s offensive game still looks a bit raw but you can see defensively he could be a stopper in the Halfcourt and a terror at the top of a 1-3-1 press with all that length and quickness.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 14, 2014 17:05:50 GMT -5
Nobody called for a bunch of Robert Churchwells; we only need one. I would've taken him over any of the '13-'14 players not named Starks or DSR (excluding Smith). We wouldn't have played 2-vs-5 in offense.Did you miss the early 90s in which Churchwell was hardly guarded (attention was paid to the Gtown bigs) and barely managed double-figures for only one season DESPITE starting for all four years and playing in a less restrained offensive system? The same guy whose shooting percentage went down during his final two seasons? That's the guy who would have made the difference? Yes.. because his 37% 3pt shooting accuracy would have been a welcome addition to last years team.. I'm not trying to tell you or Ranch that Churchwell was some borderline all-league player, what I'm saying is most successful teams need role players like Robert Churchwell.. As PR has said, I too would take him over any wing from last years team and I'd take Jabril over Bowen.. Now you have a better & deeper team.. Pops offense wasn't unrestrained MCI, it was basically non-existent
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 14, 2014 17:26:06 GMT -5
Full disclosure: I've never seen Pugh play. I've never even seen any of his highlights. For the past few years my coping mechanism have been to not watch any YouTube clips of any of the recruits the Hoyas are going after. I don't check out highlights until/unless the recruit chooses the Hoyas. So as of right now I can't make any comparisons of Pugh to anyone. But if I had looked at his highlights and came to the conclusion, hey, this kid's game reminds me of Robert Churchwell, my next thought would be : "pass." Robert Churchwell wasn't a bad player by any stretch. But for an eternity I have been arguing that he and his partner in crime, Joey Brown, should have never been starters for teams/programs that had serious aspirations. Granted Churchwell had length, had hops, had a somewhat decent touch when he had to hit jumpshots from about the free-throw line. And from time-to-time he would put on an explosive display that made you take notice and raise expectations. But the good news stop there. The guy possessed almost zero skills. Churchwell had zero handle therefore he could not drive to the basket. He lacked a reliable jumper and could not make a shot off the bounce. He couldn't create for himself or others. He was merely an okay passer. His defense wasn't all that impressive either because he wasn't great guarding opponents on the perimeter. Also this guy, like Joey Brown, regressed to some extent in his upperclassmen years. While he finally averaged double figures for one season (as a junior), his fg% kept getting worse and worse. When the Hoyas needed scoring as a result of defenses setting up camp around the Gtown big men, Churchwell was unable to deliver. He was an average player and yet the sad thing he was still easily one of the best players on his teams. That's how bad the recruiting had gotten. When a player starts four years for a program like Georgetown you figure he has to be a very valuable piece of the puzzle, if not a special player. Churchwell though was just okay. Not his fault he was thrust into the starting lineup and stayed there for four years. JT wasn't bringing in the studs. At the very most Churchwell should have been the fifth go-to guy of a starting five, with the other four players being above average college players. That's the only way to justify his minutes. Duke had that in Brian Davis (if I got that name right) who played on those two early 90s championship teams. Difference is though that Davis only started one season and that particular year Duke had four fantastic guys to play alongside him in the starting lineup. Churchwell, however, during his junior season was being counted on as the Hoyas second leading scorer! The results speak for themselves. Now as for the argument that just because you compare someone to a player doesn't mean he will turn out to be like that player my question becomes then why compare those guys in the first place? If someone told me that Tre Campbell reminded him of Joey Brown, well, I'm expecting to see a guy who plays like Joey Brown. And from there I can determine if I'm excited about that recruit. One guy wrote Pugh reminded him of a left-handed Churchwell, another guy followed up and said that was a good comparison. So I'm thinking hey maybe that's who Pugh plays like. And it left me underwhelmed. Because guys who play like Churchwell at this stage don't tend to develop skills to take their games to the next level. Now the Stacey Augmon comparison? That intrigues me. Can't blame me for not being intrigued with the thought of another go-round with Robert Churchwell though. For some of you it would be like me saying a couple of years from now that a recruit reminds me of Mikael Hopkins. As for last season I would take Bowen over Churcwell. Give Bowen as many minutes and put him on a Big John team that doesn't use up as much shotclock and Bowen is averaging similar numbers. Bowen wont shoot as well as Churchwell from the three (not that Rober shot great from there anyway) but I'm guessing his overall fg% would be better. And the post-jaw injury Jabril? I would take him over Churchwell too.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 14, 2014 17:27:35 GMT -5
Pops offense wasn't unrestrained MCI, it was basically non-existent I'll give you that one.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Oct 14, 2014 18:01:07 GMT -5
We are on the doorstep of some BIG TIME recruits, and we are debating whether we should add more Robert Churchwells?!? Ha!!!!
I'm not going to forgot this one for awhile. Let's add more Robert Churchwells. Now that is humorous. Maybe you guys are pulling my leg, and I'm missing the joke.
Does Lamont Morgan have some eligibility remaining?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 14, 2014 18:16:14 GMT -5
Nobody called for a bunch of Robert Churchwells; we only need one. I would've taken him over any of the '13-'14 players not named Starks or DSR (excluding Smith). We wouldn't have played 2-vs-5 in offense.Did you miss the early 90s in which Churchwell was hardly guarded (attention was paid to the Gtown bigs) and barely managed double-figures for only one season DESPITE starting for all four years and playing in a less restrained offensive system? The same guy whose shooting percentage went down during his final two seasons? That's the guy who would have made the difference? No, I was there. He still would have been the third best player on last year's team.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 14, 2014 18:20:16 GMT -5
Did you miss the early 90s in which Churchwell was hardly guarded (attention was paid to the Gtown bigs) and barely managed double-figures for only one season DESPITE starting for all four years and playing in a less restrained offensive system? The same guy whose shooting percentage went down during his final two seasons? That's the guy who would have made the difference? Yes.. because his 37% 3pt shooting accuracy would have been a welcome addition to last years team.. I'm not trying to tell you or Ranch that Churchwell was some borderline all-league player, what I'm saying is most successful teams need role players like Robert Churchwell.. As PR has said, I too would take him over any wing from last years team and I'd take Jabril over Bowen.. Now you have a better & deeper team.. Pops offense wasn't unrestrained MCI, it was basically non-existent Exactly.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 14, 2014 18:23:32 GMT -5
We are on the doorstep of some BIG TIME recruits, and we are debating whether we should add more Robert Churchwells?!? Ha!!!! I'm not going to forgot this one for awhile. Let's add more Robert Churchwells. You add him as a role player (and only one; not many Robert Churchwells).
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 14, 2014 19:16:42 GMT -5
Full disclosure: I've never seen Pugh play. I've never even seen any of his highlights. For the past few years my coping mechanism have been to not watch any YouTube clips of any of the recruits the Hoyas are going after. I don't check out highlights until/unless the recruit chooses the Hoyas. So as of right now I can't make any comparisons of Pugh to anyone. But if I had looked at his highlights and came to the conclusion, hey, this kid's game reminds me of Robert Churchwell, my next thought would be : "pass." Robert Churchwell wasn't a bad player by any stretch. But for an eternity I have been arguing that he and his partner in crime, Joey Brown, should have never been starters for teams/programs that had serious aspirations. Granted Churchwell had length, had hops, had a somewhat decent touch when he had to hit jumpshots from about the free-throw line. And from time-to-time he would put on an explosive display that made you take notice and raise expectations. But the good news stop there. The guy possessed almost zero skills. Churchwell had zero handle therefore he could not drive to the basket. He lacked a reliable jumper and could not make a shot off the bounce. He couldn't create for himself or others. He was merely an okay passer. His defense wasn't all that impressive either because he wasn't great guarding opponents on the perimeter. Also this guy, like Joey Brown, regressed to some extent in his upperclassmen years. While he finally averaged double figures for one season (as a junior), his fg% kept getting worse and worse. When the Hoyas needed scoring as a result of defenses setting up camp around the Gtown big men, Churchwell was unable to deliver. He was an average player and yet the sad thing he was still easily one of the best players on his teams. That's how bad the recruiting had gotten. When a player starts four years for a program like Georgetown you figure he has to be a very valuable piece of the puzzle, if not a special player. Churchwell though was just okay. Not his fault he was thrust into the starting lineup and stayed there for four years. JT wasn't bringing in the studs. At the very most Churchwell should have been the fifth go-to guy of a starting five, with the other four players being above average college players. That's the only way to justify his minutes. Duke had that in Brian Davis (if I got that name right) who played on those two early 90s championship teams. Difference is though that Davis only started one season and that particular year Duke had four fantastic guys to play alongside him in the starting lineup. Churchwell, however, during his junior season was being counted on as the Hoyas second leading scorer! The results speak for themselves. Now as for the argument that just because you compare someone to a player doesn't mean he will turn out to be like that player my question becomes then why compare those guys in the first place? If someone told me that Tre Campbell reminded him of Joey Brown, well, I'm expecting to see a guy who plays like Joey Brown. And from there I can determine if I'm excited about that recruit. One guy wrote Pugh reminded him of a left-handed Churchwell, another guy followed up and said that was a good comparison. So I'm thinking hey maybe that's who Pugh plays like. And it left me underwhelmed. Because guys who play like Churchwell at this stage don't tend to develop skills to take their games to the next level. Now the Stacey Augmon comparison? That intrigues me. Can't blame me for not being intrigued with the thought of another go-round with Robert Churchwell though. For some of you it would be like me saying a couple of years from now that a recruit reminds me of Mikael Hopkins. As for last season I would take Bowen over Churcwell. Give Bowen as many minutes and put him on a Big John team that doesn't use up as much shotclock and Bowen is averaging similar numbers. Bowen wont shoot as well as Churchwell from the three (not that Rober shot great from there anyway) but I'm guessing his overall fg% would be better. And the post-jaw injury Jabril? I would take him over Churchwell too. You have to watch clips MCI, it won't hurt you.. haha The fact that you keep saying that Churchwell wasn't a "bad player by any stretch" or that he was just "ok" or your best line "At the very most Churchwell should have been the fifth go-to guy of a starting five" proves the point Pr & I are trying to make.. Every team needs role players.. You know as well as anybody that had Pops recruited Kenny Anderson or Grant Hill ect.. properly to go along with Mourning then Churchwell would have been a 6th or 7th guy type player and probably would be remembered much more fondly (except by Ranch cause he's contrary no matter what).. As for Pugh, let's see how he develops over his Jr. year. I predict he'll make a big jump in the rankings over the next year..
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Post by Problem of Dog on Oct 14, 2014 19:28:44 GMT -5
We are on the doorstep of some BIG TIME recruits, and we are debating whether we should add more Robert Churchwells?!? Ha!!!! I'm not going to forgot this one for awhile. Let's add more Robert Churchwells. You add him as a role player (and only one; not many Robert Churchwells). If you miss on a big time recruit, they can become a Robert Churchwell. If you miss on a Robert Churchwell, they're going to be terrible.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 14, 2014 19:57:34 GMT -5
You have to watch clips MCI, it won't hurt you.. haha Can't do it! Too much pain. Absolutely. And that's my argument. Churchwell as a role player...preferably off the bench....deep down the line...like our 10th man....or 14th. Hell if we had THAT team I would still be watching video tape of their games. I'm all for it. Just hoping he's more Stacey Augmon than Robert Churchwell.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 14, 2014 21:27:39 GMT -5
You add him as a role player (and only one; not many Robert Churchwells). If you miss on a big time recruit, they can become a Robert Churchwell. If you miss on a Robert Churchwell, they're going to be terrible. If you miss on a big-time recruit (Terrence Jones/Roscoe Smith/etc...), you could end up with a Moses Ayegba. Churchwell went to Gonzaga HS in Washington, DC and earned 1st Team All-Metropolitan, All-American Honorable Mention honors and a spot on the McDonald’s Capitol Classic All-Star basketball team. Put in the same situation, most university coaches would grab a similar player because the odds are he will be a solid to good player. At GU, he was 1st team BE All-Rookie Team selection and finished his career at Georgetown 14th in scoring and 12th in rebounding.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 14, 2014 21:40:49 GMT -5
BTW, I have seen his videos. I like that Pugh is working out with a drills/skills coach and using both hands. Looks like he is working hard on his game...
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Post by Problem of Dog on Oct 14, 2014 23:06:06 GMT -5
If you miss on a big time recruit, they can become a Robert Churchwell. If you miss on a Robert Churchwell, they're going to be terrible. If you miss on a big-time recruit (Terrence Jones/Roscoe Smith/etc...), you could end up with a Moses Ayegba. Churchwell went to Gonzaga HS in Washington, DC and earned 1st Team All-Metropolitan, All-American Honorable Mention honors and a spot on the McDonald’s Capitol Classic All-Star basketball team. Put in the same situation, most university coaches would grab a similar player because the odds are he will be a solid to good player. At GU, he was 1st team BE All-Rookie Team selection and finished his career at Georgetown 14th in scoring and 12th in rebounding. I meant it more like, if a big time recruit is a bust, they can still be Robert Churchwell. When we recruit role players who are busts, they end up being Nikita.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Oct 14, 2014 23:10:39 GMT -5
This thread is getting inadvertently hilarious.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 14, 2014 23:56:48 GMT -5
If you miss on a big-time recruit (Terrence Jones/Roscoe Smith/etc...), you could end up with a Moses Ayegba. Churchwell went to Gonzaga HS in Washington, DC and earned 1st Team All-Metropolitan, All-American Honorable Mention honors and a spot on the McDonald’s Capitol Classic All-Star basketball team. Put in the same situation, most university coaches would grab a similar player because the odds are he will be a solid to good player. At GU, he was 1st team BE All-Rookie Team selection and finished his career at Georgetown 14th in scoring and 12th in rebounding. I meant it more like, if a big time recruit is a bust, they can still be Robert Churchwell. When we recruit role players who are busts, they end up being Nikita. Yes, I got your meaning the first time. I wanted to show that the staff needs to build roster balance to create a consistent winner. That balance includes big-time recruits and four-year role players. Yes, they should shoot for the stars, but have back-up plans because they're going to miss a lot. That's better than finding themselves in the second semester trying to get a workable C, for example. That's why, at some point, you pull the trigger on a player with Churchwell's h.s. credentials, if he wants to come.
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