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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 17, 2014 7:27:15 GMT -5
Hoya Saxa! Wonder how many kids saw that haha...come to Gtown now!!! ... Amazing to be repping our team... vine.co/v/MhqHVIFJxbT
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 17, 2014 7:30:36 GMT -5
I thought the documentary did an absolutely tremendous job covering the "rise" of the Big East. However, i thought it really could have done a better job covering the "fall." Start talking about the 90s, how the Big East was really a powerhouse during the time when more and more Americans had cable TV in their houses. Talk about ESPNs expansion. Talk about the expansion of money in college football. They truly glossed over this until "BC, Miami, and Tech" left. Talk more about how the Big East responded by really going out of their comfort zone and adding more schools, then talk about how Big East basketball WAS the preeminent league, getting the most bids in the tourney, having the successes they did. And then then talk about how - despite all of this - football is king and just demolished everything. I know ESPN really didn't want to touch upon how they low-balled the Big East and really created this whole mess for their financial gain, but, I do think they could have done a better job with it. To be honest, if they covered the "fall" like that, it wouldn't have been as sympathetic. People watching would have just thought, oh, yeah, football is way more important than basketball, that's all there is to it. To us, that may not be true, but neutral watchers would have thought that. I started cringing when they showed the football stadiums, because let's face it, 110k people are much more important than 10k.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 17, 2014 7:31:18 GMT -5
Hoya Saxa! Wonder how many kids saw that haha...come to Gtown now!!! ... Amazing to be repping our team... vine.co/v/MhqHVIFJxbTI thought that was you. Congrats.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 17, 2014 7:45:21 GMT -5
I thought the documentary did an absolutely tremendous job covering the "rise" of the Big East. However, i thought it really could have done a better job covering the "fall." Start talking about the 90s, how the Big East was really a powerhouse during the time when more and more Americans had cable TV in their houses. Talk about ESPNs expansion. Talk about the expansion of money in college football. They truly glossed over this until "BC, Miami, and Tech" left. Talk more about how the Big East responded by really going out of their comfort zone and adding more schools, then talk about how Big East basketball WAS the preeminent league, getting the most bids in the tourney, having the successes they did. And then then talk about how - despite all of this - football is king and just demolished everything. I know ESPN really didn't want to touch upon how they low-balled the Big East and really created this whole mess for their financial gain, but, I do think they could have done a better job with it. So many people got heartburn over the title "Requiem for the Big East" b/c ZOMG THE BIG EAST ISN'T DEAD BUT ESPN TOTALLY KILLED IT or whatever. I wonder if we aren't confusing two things here. The conference called "Big East" is still around, having recently undergone one of many evolutions in its history. The conference has had some great boom periods as recently as...well, 2013 when it sent two teams to the Final Four and eight to the NCAAs. It now has a complicated relationship with ESPN. But I don't think that's the part we're doing a "Requiem" for. The Requiem is for Dave Gavitt's original vision, the conference populated by Louie and Rollie and JTII and Pearl and Ewing and so forth that rose to amazing heights in the 1980s thanks to its less complicated relationship with TV. That one died sometime in the early 1990s, a victim of the first rounds of conference expansion and the departure of several of the iconic coaches that made the league. I think given two hours, you make a choice on whether you want to be a comprehensive account of the rise and fall of a conference, or a great history lesson about an era of college basketball. Maybe it was a little bait and switch with the title, but I'm glad I got the history lesson, even though I'd watch an hour or so on who screwed who in conference expansion and that's a story worth telling. I'm of a certain age (I was born a little after the 1982 Final Four), so the Big East of this documentary is basically a history lesson. Georgetown obviously gained a lot of fans during the early 1980s and those fans and students of the era certainly remember the time fondly. I'm not one to diss nostalgia trips: I've been posting 2007 NCAA Tournament pictures to Instagram all weekend, and there's the matter of my avatar. But I think in so many ways--whether it's a poster saying we need to recruit big men like Alonzo or Pat Ewing, or someone complaining that JTIII is underachieving b/c we aren't as good as the time they went to the Final Four in Atlanta (EDIT: or, broadly, McDonough)--Georgetown fans live in the past, and we'd be better off appreciating how great it was, but moving on and embracing the present. Final point: how awesome are 1980s basketball fights?
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 17, 2014 7:48:34 GMT -5
I agree, FL. I think they basically presented it as a history and nostalgia piece with big john, Boeheim and tranghese waxing about how things used to be until the invisible hand ruined everything. I'm okay with that.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 17, 2014 7:49:16 GMT -5
I hope all of the mouth breathers shown with racist signs and shirts about Patrick enjoyed their moment in the spotlight. I went to those games and the abuse he took was vile. It is a testament to him that he could block it out as well as he did and just talk with his play.
I would hate to be one of those idiots and have my kids recognize me...
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Mar 17, 2014 8:43:45 GMT -5
Oh yes, the fights were one of the best parts. That forearm shiver from Pearl, yikes. Also loved the 5 Ewing goal tends with the Big John commentary.
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1227
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Post by 1227 on Mar 17, 2014 8:49:44 GMT -5
I lived through both, but I never recognized the similarities between the rise of the big east and the heyday of the WWF. Except the fighting in the big east was real. Both were driven by outsized personalities.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 17, 2014 8:52:13 GMT -5
I hope all of the mouth breathers shown with racist signs and shirts about Patrick enjoyed their moment in the spotlight. I went to those games and the abuse he took was vile. It is a testament to him that he could block it out as well as he did and just talk with his play. I would hate to be one of those idiots and have my kids recognize me... I got in a fight (verbal, no physicality) with some of the Nova students who had a "Ewing Kant Read Dis" sign at the 1982 BET in Hartford when I had an usher confiscate it from them. Elvado is dead on about the abuse.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 17, 2014 9:13:53 GMT -5
I posted in another thread that the filmmaker grew up as a Gtown fan, although he too has brought into the notion that the Big East no longer exists. I took the final credit meaning as ESPN made an offer to the Big East..the Big East saw the tv contract the Pac 12 got from Fox Sports and wanted that type of contract and thus that lead to teams bolting and the rest of the Big East signing a deal with Fox Sports 1. Greed became the ultimate villain and the conference undoing. I think in retrospect if the Big East knew what was to happen, they would have taken the deal and stayed with ESPN. The teams that I have left will realize money is good but traditional rivalries are better (will bring money anyways). Who do you mean when you say "if the Big East knew"? Because the bball schools were going to get screwed even if they agreed to the original terms. It was inevitable. "If the Big East knew", I mean it is a matter of perception... With the offer that was given there is 2 ways to look at... 1. Less TV money, higher ratings, more of the old guard is kept in place, tix sales stay constant 2. More TV money, lower ratings, lower tix sales, old guards are replaced by new ones and the conference membership shrinks. If the contract was signed Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame,West Virginia, UConn, Cincy would have stayed and the conference would not have reached for Tulane, SMU, UCF, Houston, Boise St. and San Diego St. Also I believe the pressure of the new schools having football and outnumbering the voting of the basketball schools was the final straw...the basketball schools would deal with football cause Pitt & Syracuse were founding members and trusted their input...that trust was not there with the new members coming in. Also speaking of dejavu after watching the documentary, the New Big East with Fox Sports 1 as a fledgling t.v. network...reminds of the Old Big East with ESPN as a fledgling network.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 17, 2014 9:16:44 GMT -5
Hoya Saxa! Wonder how many kids saw that haha...come to Gtown now!!! ... Amazing to be repping our team... vine.co/v/MhqHVIFJxbTI thought that might have been u glide..the thought just flashed into my head during the documentary.. You are definitely becoming the most recognized #1 Hoya fan with all the t.v. time you have been getting this season...keep it up
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 17, 2014 9:38:47 GMT -5
I hope all of the mouth breathers shown with racist signs and shirts about Patrick enjoyed their moment in the spotlight. I went to those games and the abuse he took was vile. It is a testament to him that he could block it out as well as he did and just talk with his play. On twitter I saw some dope gripe about "why did the doc have to bring up race, ESPN is always talking about race, yada, yada, yada." The guy doesn't get it and his attitude is one that I find too common. The topic of race was touched upon because, duh, race was made an issue by idiots who, if not actually bigoted, used bigoted language.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 17, 2014 9:48:59 GMT -5
Hoya Saxa! Wonder how many kids saw that haha...come to Gtown now!!! ... Amazing to be repping our team... vine.co/v/MhqHVIFJxbTWay to go Glide!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 17, 2014 9:55:03 GMT -5
I hope all of the mouth breathers shown with racist signs and shirts about Patrick enjoyed their moment in the spotlight. I went to those games and the abuse he took was vile. It is a testament to him that he could block it out as well as he did and just talk with his play. I would hate to be one of those idiots and have my kids recognize me... I got in a fight (verbal, no physicality) with some of the Nova students who had a "Ewing Kant Read Dis" sign at the 1982 BET in Hartford when I had an usher confiscate it from them. Elvado is dead on about the abuse. The best revenge of all, of course, is the fact that Patrick has become one of the more entertaining, funny and thoughtful interviews around. Not too many players are good friends with both MJ and Bird.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Mar 17, 2014 10:05:58 GMT -5
Certain Villanova fans were shown to be cretins, and player drug use in 1985 was never mentioned, but Ed Pinckney's interviews were great and made me almost willing to forgive him for making me cry as a 7 year old.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 17, 2014 10:06:50 GMT -5
I posted in another thread that the filmmaker grew up as a Gtown fan, although he too has brought into the notion that the Big East no longer exists. Who do you mean when you say "if the Big East knew"? Because the bball schools were going to get screwed even if they agreed to the original terms. It was inevitable. "If the Big East knew", I mean it is a matter of perception... With the offer that was given there is 2 ways to look at... 1. Less TV money, higher ratings, more of the old guard is kept in place, tix sales stay constant 2. More TV money, lower ratings, lower tix sales, old guards are replaced by new ones and the conference membership shrinks. If the contract was signed Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame,West Virginia, UConn, Cincy would have stayed and the conference would not have reached for Tulane, SMU, UCF, Houston, Boise St. and San Diego St. Also I believe the pressure of the new schools having football and outnumbering the voting of the basketball schools was the final straw...the basketball schools would deal with football cause Pitt & Syracuse were founding members and trusted their input...that trust was not there with the new members coming in. Also speaking of dejavu after watching the documentary, the New Big East with Fox Sports 1 as a fledgling t.v. network...reminds of the Old Big East with ESPN as a fledgling network. Pitt was not a founding member. Anyway, the "what if they had signed the ESPN offer" is a much-debated hypothetical, but I don't think it's one we can really assess because we don't know the full extent of what was going on behind the scenes. The sense is that ESPN was communicating to the football schools that the lowball offer was an indication of how the basketball schools were dragging them down. It's entirely possible that it was never meant to be a serious offer; even if it had been accepted, it would have not proven an obstacle to the football schools bailing for greener pastures (with ESPN's blessing), given the league's paltry exit fees. They would've watched power conference after power conference get much sweeter deals from ESPN and decide, as Maryland did, that the grass was greener elsewhere. ESPN was just consolidating their product lines... or so it seems.
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GPHoya
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Post by GPHoya on Mar 17, 2014 10:28:25 GMT -5
It was a great program and very nostalgic for those of us who were there in the 70's and 80's and who witnessed college basketball in the old and new Garden during the 60's.
JT's point about the history Georgetown made for Eastern basketball in 1984 and the opportunities it created for others really resonated with me. The 80's were amazing, but Charley Pierce had it right that the invisible hand made it impossible to sustain. Of course, if JT had kept recruiting guards and swing men, if Georgetown had raised the money and built the on-campus facility, if we could have let Penn State in, it all might have lasted a little longer, but Adam Smith's logic would have ultimately won the day.
As for a Requiem, I stayed in NY this weekend through Friday night after enduring the Wednesday debacle. It was not 1984 or 85 when it was a New York happening. It was not 2013, when it was a Syracuse home game. That said, it was very good craic watching the anguish of Nova fans, the rebirth of Providence, and the novelty that Creighton fans enjoyed. I just finished Roddy Doyle's "The Guts" which ends with a story about his middle-aged journey to a music festival in Ireland and it was like that. You were surrounded by people who love the music and magic of college basketball and the fraternity of a good long party. There is a family and a reunion aspect of putting the band from college back together again or affirming the father-son bond. You remember the glorious past, overdue in the present and defy the future for a weekend.
The resale market is not so great and if you need your team to win to be happy, Wednesday night really sucked. For me, I had a great time with a couple of my sons and their friends and I will lean harder on my classsmates to come next year. The great old days are not coming back, but this is still where you want to be in March not only to remember them, but to make some new memories.
Next year play on Friday and not Wednesday Hoyas. You still own the brand. Use it.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Mar 17, 2014 11:14:49 GMT -5
I hope all of the mouth breathers shown with racist signs and shirts about Patrick enjoyed their moment in the spotlight. I went to those games and the abuse he took was vile. It is a testament to him that he could block it out as well as he did and just talk with his play. I would hate to be one of those idiots and have my kids recognize me... I thought the exact same thing as I was watching! In today's far more politically correct age, it really is kind of hard to believe that this kind of open racism was at least somewhat tolerated back then. Starting out at Georgetown in 1979 as a privileged white kid who had never even thought about race before, I had my first real introduction to race issues in america from Thompson/the georgetown basketball experience.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Mar 17, 2014 11:49:16 GMT -5
Must see TV for anyone who wasn't around during the Big East's, and GTown's,'80's heyday. John Thompson was much, much more than just a B-Ball coach. The man was a visionary, utterly fearless, and 100% in the right when it came to the big issues of his time.
Two things I didn't appreciate. One, the part when they portrayed West Virginia's entrance to the Big East as a mistaken dance with the football devil, fine, but then they showed some seriously gratuitous and negative footage of hillbillies with banjo music, what in the hell was that? Especially strange considering how much time was spent discussing the racism exposed by Gtown and Ewing's rise. Second, after annihilating Syracuse home and away last year, they only showed the gut wrenching OT loss to Syracuse in the BET. That was a tough loss, but it sure as hell didn't negate the twin beat downs the Hoyas put on the Orange during the regular season, including holding them to their lowest ever point total at the Carrier Dome. Ah well, screw 'Cuse and that whiny egghead coach.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 17, 2014 12:03:38 GMT -5
Second, after annihilating Syracuse home and away last year, they only showed the gut wrenching OT loss to Syracuse in the BET. That was a tough loss, but it sure as hell didn't negate the twin beat downs the Hoyas put on the Orange during the regular season, including holding them to their lowest ever point total at the Carrier Dome. Ah well, screw 'Cuse and that whiny egghead coach. Several people bringing this up. It makes narrative sense to use that BET game as a unifying arc in a film called "Requiem for the Big East" because that was the final game of the Big East's best rivalry AND the final game between two original BE schools AND it took place at the venue that made the conference so iconic AND it featured the electric atmosphere (well chronicled especially in the opening) that characterized the conference in its heyday. All four of those things are not coming back in the same form, and that was the final time we'd see them before we figuratively took apart the floor. I loves me some GU-Cuse 2013 regular season highlights. Got the Washington Post from the Carrier Dome game in a display case, Jim Burr all calling four-point plays and stuff. But it'd make no narrative sense to dwell on the two regular season games, just like it was fine to mention in passing that GU and Nova had played a few times in 1985 without showing a bunch of highlights.
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