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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Mar 16, 2014 19:17:56 GMT -5
My final four: Florida, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Louisville. Florida over Louisville for the championship.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 16, 2014 19:30:34 GMT -5
Realist/Pessimist, Potato/Potahto Honestly, I'll wear that badge. It's not pessimism to wait and see how we perform, how our freshmen mesh, etc. Given our recent history, I think it's silly to make any early predictions. Maybe things click, maybe they don't, but like I said, I'll wait and see.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 16, 2014 19:46:23 GMT -5
Honestly, I'll wear that badge. It's not pessimism to wait and see how we perform, how our freshmen mesh, etc. Given our recent history, I think it's silly to make any early predictions. Maybe things click, maybe they don't, but like I said, I'll wait and see. I find it pessimistic when one chooses to go out of their way to stress how realistic they are when that realism has a pessimistic bent.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 16, 2014 20:26:43 GMT -5
. . .and objectivity is subjective.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 16, 2014 20:36:00 GMT -5
The AAC was disrespected with SMU out and Louisville only a 4-seed.
A-10 way over-rated. Good for Vee but not really buying Dayton has the resume, and UMass as a 6 is the worst over seeding in recent memory (and of course Duke is the 3-seed with the easier draw.)
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 16, 2014 21:02:22 GMT -5
Side note: This ESPN 30 for 30 on the Big East so far is good..gives a lot of the history of the Big East and the Hoya Paranoia Phenomenom
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 16, 2014 23:37:21 GMT -5
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 17, 2014 8:09:29 GMT -5
That pretty much settles the "were we the last four out" idea. It also shows how utterly subjective this process is -- seeing as how we were 13th-16th best of the NIT teams according to that Committee. I know they aren't held to the same standards and don't cull through the metrics, but that's a heck of a big difference. A few other points:
--Our road record probably was very problematic. We really didn't have a good true road win all year and had a terrible overall road record. The Committee Chair noted that NC State had some notable wins on the road. I actually think that (combined with looking at neutral games) is a very good, but often over-looked, metric, since it takes away the extreme edge that many teams (like a Duke) have at home that is in no way predictive of their success in an all-neutral court event. Maybe the only lesson is that it would be valuable to play a decent (but not great) team on the road every year to get a shot at a good OOC road win (playing Kansas is swell and all but our chances were slim). But that's a quibble since we get 4-5 shots at decent road wins in the conference each year.
--We absolutely need to keep scheduling aggressively. The Committee has rewarded us in the past and rewarded us again this year. Obviously the reward ultimately didn't do us any good, but the fact that they considered us so late in the game is due solely to the schedule.
--I hate the fact that the conference tournaments have wildly outsized meaning. It just doesn't make sense to me that a team can jump 15 other teams or something on the basis of two or three games. At a minimum, the Committee should say that they do (or don't). Heck, you could even build it into their own RPI metric by counting them 10% more or something and taking some of the subjectivity out of it. That's not a Georgetown-related complaint (big BET runs have wildly helped our seeding in the past).
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 17, 2014 8:11:55 GMT -5
That pretty much settles the "were we the last four out" idea. It also shows how utterly subjective this process is -- seeing as how we were 13th-16th best of the NIT teams according to that Committee. I know they aren't held to the same standards and don't cull through the metrics, but that's a heck of a big difference. A few other points: --Our road record probably was very problematic. We really didn't have a good true road win all year and had a terrible overall road record. The Committee Chair noted that NC State had some notable wins on the road. I actually think that (combined with looking at neutral games) is a very good, but often over-looked, metric, since it takes away the extreme edge that many teams (like a Duke) have at home that is in no way predictive of their success in an all-neutral court event. Maybe the only lesson is that it would be valuable to play a decent (but not great) team on the road every year to get a shot at a good OOC road win (playing Kansas is swell and all but our chances were slim). But that's a quibble since we get 4-5 shots at decent road wins in the conference each year. --We absolutely need to keep scheduling aggressively. The Committee has rewarded us in the past and rewarded us again this year. Obviously the reward ultimately didn't do us any good, but the fact that they considered us so late in the game is due solely to the schedule. --I hate the fact that the conference tournaments have wildly outsized meaning. It just doesn't make sense to me that a team can jump 15 other teams or something on the basis of two or three games. At a minimum, the Committee should say that they do (or don't). Heck, you could even build it into their own RPI metric by counting them 10% more or something and taking some of the subjectivity out of it. That's not a Georgetown-related complaint (big BET runs have wildly helped our seeding in the past). I think the discrepancy can be explained by NIT seeding being effected by scheduling and match-ups in a way that the NCAAs are not.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 17, 2014 8:32:30 GMT -5
We dug our grave, but that's pretty annoying to hear about Providence. As you guys said, we better keep up our OOC, because basically there were 2 BE teams squarely in the field this year and those were the ones that went a combined 28-6 in the conference. Xavier barely snuck in, and providence had to win the tourney.
The BE needs Marquette to come back next year. They had a very good OOC schedule, but they lost almost all those games.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 17, 2014 8:38:26 GMT -5
The noise in the selection process is set up to justify whatever they want to justify. For one team the quality wins get more emphasis than the bad losses; for another team they emphasize the losses and leave them out or down seed them. RPI is important except when it isn't. And so on.
If Georgetown was still in the conversation there must have been some members who put quality wins above everything else.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 17, 2014 8:39:19 GMT -5
As long as Syracuse and Nova lose early, I am a happy man.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 17, 2014 8:42:58 GMT -5
We dug our grave, but that's pretty annoying to hear about Providence. As you guys said, we better keep up our OOC, because basically there were 2 BE teams squarely in the field this year and those were the ones that went a combined 28-6 in the conference. Xavier barely snuck in, and providence had to win the tourney. The BE needs Marquette to come back next year. They had a very good OOC schedule, but they lost almost all those games. Absolutely correct about the OOC schedule. With time it is possible that playing the conference games alone will help the RPI, but for the immediate future the entire conference needs to continue to play tough games in November and December. Next year's team will certainly have to endure some growing pains, but I think that playing big-time games early can be a great recruiting tool. These kids want to come here and play on national television immediately. Networks want Georgetown-Kansas, not an early season blowout. Hoya fans have to love the way JT III schedules OOC--keep it up.
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Post by flyoverhoya on Mar 17, 2014 8:50:48 GMT -5
We dug our grave, but that's pretty annoying to hear about Providence. As you guys said, we better keep up our OOC, because basically there were 2 BE teams squarely in the field this year and those were the ones that went a combined 28-6 in the conference. Xavier barely snuck in, and providence had to win the tourney. The BE needs Marquette to come back next year. They had a very good OOC schedule, but they lost almost all those games. Marquette's really going to need a better backcourt to do that. Their guards were awful this year.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 17, 2014 8:55:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I used Marquette as an example because they do a good job like us of getting good OOC games. It can be any team, but they were the obvious example this year. I will have to look up where some of the BE teams are going for OOC tourneys next year.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 17, 2014 9:07:09 GMT -5
As long as Syracuse and Nova lose early, I am a happy man. I mean, normally I'm with you on Nova, but I think for the next few years we need to adopt the SEC football mentality--hate as much as you want during the conference season, but put aside the rivalries when Big East teams play out of conference, especially in the NCAAs. We need deep NCAA runs for conference legitimacy, and Nova is one of our best chances this year.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 17, 2014 9:10:42 GMT -5
Intellectually, I hear you. Viscerally, not so much.
My hatred for Nova is boundless. If it ever began to wane, last night's special showing those cretins with their signs and t shirts about Patrick brought it all back as if it were 1985 all over again.
This may sound sacreligious but I hate them more than Syracuse.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 17, 2014 9:24:57 GMT -5
As long as Syracuse and Nova lose early, I am a happy man. I mean, normally I'm with you on Nova, but I think for the next few years we need to adopt the SEC football mentality--hate as much as you want during the conference season, but put aside the rivalries when Big East teams play out of conference, especially in the NCAAs. We need deep NCAA runs for conference legitimacy, and Nova is one of our best chances this year. I want them to go deep, but not too deep. Second weekend is fine. No FF! Hope Provy is on a roll and goes deeper than 'Nova.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 17, 2014 9:45:23 GMT -5
I think SMU got hosed... They beat Cincy, UConn, and Louisville..ranked in the top 25 and no bid offered but you let NC State, Tennessee, Nebraska and Iowa in...wow
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 17, 2014 9:57:13 GMT -5
--We absolutely need to keep scheduling aggressively. The Committee has rewarded us in the past and rewarded us again this year. Obviously the reward ultimately didn't do us any good, but the fact that they considered us so late in the game is due solely to the schedule. I would argue that we were "over-seeded" in the NCAA Tournament every year since 2010 in large part because of our strong non-conference schedule and tendency to pick up quality OOC wins.
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