RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Mar 30, 2005 12:24:10 GMT -5
MCIGuy, You may not have been following hoops at the time, but your conjecture is right. I think SJU was rated #1 earlier in the season, or at least were top 5 with GU. That was the bigger game for the HOYAS. One could almost say GU suffered a let down vs. Nova after the bigger victory over SJU. But, that wasn't really the case. 'Nova just had a once in a lifetime game. GU played great Defense, and still 'Nova would throw up a shot and somehow hit it. They only missed one shot the entire second half. Their shooting percentage was unbelievable... yet they still won by only a single basket. If we played them 9 more times, 'Nova would not have won one -- although our two meetings with them earlier in the season were close games. GU was incredible in those days. The #1 program in the USA -- no question. JT had an opportunity to build a dynasty like John Wooden's UCLA teams. All the top kids wanted to play for Georgetown. But somehow, JT lost focus and motivation, didn't want to put the effort into recruiting, and let the whole thing slide. JT3 has the opportunity to get GU back to the top -- though it is highly unlikely GU will ever return to the utter dominance we had at that time. Sir Saxa, SJU beat GU at the Cap Centre to take over the #1 ranking--they were #2 and went 15-1 in Big East with lone loss coming to Hoyas in the "Sweater Game" rematch. Then we spanked them again in BET Final--that's why we were wearing the blue jerseys in highlights. Ralph Dalton had a huge game in BET Final and East Regional Final against Georgia Tech. GU and SJU were #1 and #2 all year for the most part and Hoyas only other loss was to Cuse at the Dome in the game where crowd held up bananas and called Patrick an "ape" and threw oranges at the players--with one hitting the backboard and smashing. Boeheim had to speak with fans on mic and calm things down. We paid them back two times--and destroyed them in both! BTW, I'd love to see Hoyas go back to the uniforms used in '85--Grey with Blue Trim and Blue with grey trim. Those were coolest uniforms we had in my opinion with Iverson era jerseys a close second. Also didn't mind the uniforms we wore at end of '89 and most of '90 season.
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,419
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 30, 2005 12:24:46 GMT -5
Only certain parts of the city. The parts I'm talking about are not that much different than they were in the eighties. In fact, its wilder. Give it 5 or 10 years... It'll be too expensive for any of them to live here...Hell, it'll be too expensive for me!!!!
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,481
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Mar 30, 2005 15:55:34 GMT -5
JT had an opportunity to build a dynasty like John Wooden's UCLA teams. All the top kids wanted to play for Georgetown. But somehow, JT lost focus and motivation, didn't want to put the effort into recruiting, and let the whole thing slide. JT3 has the opportunity to get GU back to the top -- though it is highly unlikely GU will ever return to the utter dominance we had at that time. SirSaxa: I hate to split hairs with you, but while JTII had a real run of top flight recruits, he was always far more successful landing big men rather than elite perimeter players. While we got Reggie Williams and David Wingate, guys like Johnny Dawkins, Dennis Scott, Grant Hill and Chris Jackson opted for other programs. And lord knows AI would never have landed on the Hilltop if he'd avoided his legal troubles. The overwhelming majority of our best guard talent were not the most highly rated recruits, but they fit JTII's system and developed -- guys like Michael Jackson, Charles Smith, and Joey Brown to name but a few. I guess I quibble with your assertion that "all the top kids wanted to play for Georgetown." Any number may have professed interest, but we both know John was very selective (some would say picky) about who he'd really want to get involved with. I pointedly remember him throwing his hands up and backing off Chris Jackson when things weren't exactly happening to JTII's satisfaction. Yes, JTII appetite for recruiting may have lessened, but -- big men aside -- we never seemed to have our choice of the creme de la creme.
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Mar 30, 2005 16:03:29 GMT -5
AvantGuard, My understanding of the Chris Jackson recruitment process is that it developed in very much the same way as did el-Amin's. His mother was very involved, shall we say....if that caused JT2 to be picky, so be it, although it certainly was tough to see him rain down deep jumpers at LSU!!
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 30, 2005 16:12:15 GMT -5
SirSaxa: I hate to split hairs with you, but while JTII had a real run of top flight recruits, he was always far more successful landing big men rather than elite perimeter players. While we got Reggie Williams and David Wingate, guys like Johnny Dawkins, Dennis Scott, Grant Hill and Chris Jackson opted for other programs. And lord knows AI would never have landed on the Hilltop if he'd avoided his legal troubles. The overwhelming majority of our best guard talent were not the most highly rated recruits, but they fit JTII's system and developed -- guys like Michael Jackson, Charles Smith, and Joey Brown to name but a few. I guess I quibble with your assertion that "all the top kids wanted to play for Georgetown." Any number may have professed interest, but we both know John was very selective (some would say picky) about who he'd really want to get involved with. I pointedly remember him throwing his hands up and backing off Chris Jackson when things weren't exactly happening to JTII's satisfaction. Yes, JTII appetite for recruiting may have lessened, but -- big men aside -- we never seemed to have our choice of the creme de la creme. Thats not true at all. Grant Hill and Kenny Anderson both wanted, BADLY, to come to Georgetown. Kenny said JT2 acted like he was not really interested, and Grant Hill didn't like the interview process with JT2 and Mary Fenlon. JT2 HATED recruiting. He would always say he felt it was beneath him to beg a recruit to come play for him. JT2 knew what makes a succesful Basketball team. Having a dominant Big Man and/or stellar defense in the paint and on the perimeter. Its like in Football having a good running attack and also having a good defensive front that stops the run, you control the line of scrimmage. If you control the line of scrimmage, you are going to be very successful. Its not pretty and rather boring to the casual fan, but it wins ballgames. Plus JT2 had nothing else to prove in his mind. AFter winning the National Title, he said," I just wanted one, I don't want 10 like John Wooden, I just wanted one." When he was hired at G'town he said he was told just to get in the NIT a couple times and you will be okay. He far exceeded expecations and turned G'town into Major Basketball program, and helped pioneer the Big East. I think JT2 was on cruise control after 1985. He could recruit when he wanted to recruit. Look at the team during Iverson 2nd year and Mourning's first year.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 30, 2005 16:37:01 GMT -5
SirSaxa: I hate to split hairs with you, but while JTII had a real run of top flight recruits, he was always far more successful landing big men rather than elite perimeter players. While we got Reggie Williams and David Wingate, guys like Johnny Dawkins, Dennis Scott, Grant Hill and Chris Jackson opted for other programs. And lord knows AI would never have landed on the Hilltop if he'd avoided his legal troubles. The overwhelming majority of our best guard talent were not the most highly rated recruits, but they fit JTII's system and developed -- guys like Michael Jackson, Charles Smith, and Joey Brown to name but a few. I guess I quibble with your assertion that "all the top kids wanted to play for Georgetown." Any number may have professed interest, but we both know John was very selective (some would say picky) about who he'd really want to get involved with. I pointedly remember him throwing his hands up and backing off Chris Jackson when things weren't exactly happening to JTII's satisfaction. Yes, JTII appetite for recruiting may have lessened, but -- big men aside -- we never seemed to have our choice of the creme de la creme. AvantGuard, You make some good points. But those you cite refer to results... where they ended up going... not what could have been had Pops pursued them. As "the way" posted, Kenny Anderson and Grant Hill are two well known examples of players who wanted to come to GU but didn't as a result of JT's action or inaction. Others include Shaq and Corliss Williamson. Of course, for me to write "All" is overstatement. But GU had the street cred and hip factor over every other program. JT was the first black head coach of a D1 program (or darn close) and definitely the first to win a national title. He had everything going for him. The best guards he recruited were Sleepy, Duren, D. Jackson, Wingate. Reggie was really a SF. The year we got Patrick, we also signed Billy Martin and Anthony Jones -- both top ten rated recruits as forwards... so he was definitely into recruiting at that point. We also had enormous success with Charles Smith as you mentioned -- not a top recruit, but he was a great player... which should have reinforced our rep with guards. JT did not like the recruiting process -- dealing with "Knuckleheads" and thought he could build a winner with any kids. He wanted kids to call him first, he didn't want to have to puruse them. My comments are directed to what could have been, had he used his enormous influence and visibility to continue to build the program, because there were an awful lot of kids who wanted to come here. After Patrick, we did get Reggie, Zo and Othella, all of whom were the topped rated player nationally coming out of HS. Iverson was too, but you are right... we didn't recruit him. His mother sent him to us. So true... we did not get all the top kids we might have. But we had the inside track on tons of them. Pops didn't want to put that much effort into it. JT3, on the other hand, seems to want to leave no stone unturned as he strives to rebuild the program. And Pops is right behind him willing to help out. I get the sense, though, that T3 wants his kind of kid and won't take just any top rated recruit. I think he is on the right track, and I am looking forward to more good news in the next few weeks!
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 30, 2005 16:50:16 GMT -5
It funny you should mention Iverson. If Iverson had it his way, he initially didn't want to go to G'town. Iverson always wanted to go to Maryland. Plus, with Joe Smith there at the time, who was from around the same area Iverson was from, Iverson wanted to team up with Joe Smith at College Park. There were only 2 places Iverson's mother and support group wanted to see if they would take him, and that was John Cheney at Temple and JT2. Iverson was adamant about not playing for JT2. Iverson felt JT2 was a Big Man's coach, and didn't really help develop guards. But once he sat down and talked to JT2, JT2 let him know that he would open the offense up and let him play his type of game as long it didn't hurt the team. It all worked out in the end and they both are still close to this day, but its just funny how Iverson didn't want to play for him at first.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 30, 2005 16:58:32 GMT -5
Iverson wanted to play football as well....mother was deadset opposed, JTII agreed. But can you imagine if he had put on pads for the Hoyas? I'd put money on us having seen a faster jumpstart of the football program.
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,419
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 31, 2005 11:49:24 GMT -5
Iverson wanted to play football as well....mother was deadset opposed, JTII agreed. But can you imagine if he had put on pads for the Hoyas? I'd put money on us having seen a faster jumpstart of the football program. How long has GU been playing football?
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Mar 31, 2005 14:40:05 GMT -5
How long has GU been playing football? With the help of the HoyaSaxa.com football history page: With the exception of intercollegiate baseball, football has been played at Georgetown University longer than any other team sport. Though interrupted three times for a combined period of eighteen years, the football legacy at the Hilltop stretches back through over half the school's history. Hoping to bring a sport to the winter months, a group of students formed the Georgetown University Football Association on November 1, 1874, with the purpose of developing an intercollegiate team along the lines of teams at Princeton and Rutgers. The problem was that in 1874, there were no nearby colleges actually playing the game. It is not until 1887 that a recorded game is cited to begin team play. In that event, Georgetown defeated Emerson Institute 46-6 for its first win. In 1889, the University scheduled its first full intercollegiate opponent, the University of Virginia. The Georgetown archives tell of a rousing 32-0 triumph of the Blue and Gray that day...but Virginia records claim the gentlemen from Mr. Jefferson's university prevailed, 34-0. (Of course, we concur with the former.) A turnout of nearly 4,000 fans to Georgetown's baseball diamond broke all local attendance records for a sporting event. With the game, the sport won acceptance at Georgetown and became a regular part of campus life. Georgetown also played in the Orange Bowl in 1941! Imagine That! If football hadn't been cancelled and we had gotten the 20,000 seat stadium that I've seen drawings of we could be a Big East football school right now. www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/hist01.htm
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,419
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 31, 2005 14:59:02 GMT -5
My brother and I were actually talking about Hoya football a couple of months ago...
We said if Georgetown wanted to make some money, they should schedule either N.C. A&T or FAMU...one reason is that both schools have HUGE alumni chapters in the DC Metro area...another reason is that both schools bring a large contingent of fans...and if you're willing to pay the $30K, FAMU will bring their band and you can charge $25 a ticket...
There's no reason in the world why you guys shouldn't play Howard on a yearly basis...It seems to me that that game would definitely benefit both schools...
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