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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 12, 2013 10:08:01 GMT -5
If we could get a home-and-home 10 year series (no Madison Square Garden as "neutral"), I think it would be great for the program. It would guarantee 5 solid home games over the next 10 years, and it would maintain a high interest game over the next 10 years. I realize there are some people who say "good riddance" and don't want to play Syracuse, but the fact is that there's no game on our schedule this season that would come close to the interest level of a game against Syracuse.
At worst, it would be a guaranteed OOC game against a fairly good opponent (even if they go downhill after Boeheim, they'll probably still be better than most of our OOC opponents), and that's something that's a positive.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Sept 12, 2013 10:13:06 GMT -5
I'm fine with this as long as it is an even home and home split. If they want to take 1-2 games out of THEIR home games for MSG I'm fine with that as MSG is closer to neutral than the Dome and it would make us more money. (and I live in NYC) But any NYC games must come from their home allotment.
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GPHoya
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Post by GPHoya on Sept 12, 2013 10:20:33 GMT -5
I would not have a problem with a three-year rotation over nine years played at the Dome, Verizon and MSG/Barclay's provided that we get a chance to sell half of the NYC games to our ticket base before the tix go on the market generally. A 10-year deal, with four games in the Dome (which I presume is the current proposal)would not be acceptable. We should be able to get 7-9k Hoya fans in New York and produce something close to an intense neutral site close to our largest and wealthiest alumni center. Saturday games in December would be wonderful. We have to get over the fact that they have more fans and more intense fans than we do and figure out how we hold on to and build the size and intensity of our fan base. This series will help. In nine years in the post Boheim era and with success of our program and new Big East in NYC, maybe we can say good-by or negotiate a better deal, but let's not have false Hoya pride get in the way of a deal that helps us. Who cares who publicized it?
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gunny
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Post by gunny on Sept 12, 2013 10:53:05 GMT -5
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Sept 12, 2013 10:54:33 GMT -5
Guys MSG is nearly equidistant between Syracuse and Georgetown, and we both have a strong alumni base there. However they want to split 10 games, so long as the same number of games are played in DC as Syracuse is fine with me. I wouldn't even care if it was 10 years of only MSG games. This is a good deal for both schools.
I will agree though the schools should be getting the vast majority of the tickets to distribute themselves (80%+) and a smaller number on the open market.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 10:56:24 GMT -5
I would not have a problem with a three-year rotation over nine years played at the Dome, Verizon and MSG/Barclay's provided that we get a chance to sell half of the NYC games to our ticket base before the tix go on the market generally. A 10-year deal, with four games in the Dome (which I presume is the current proposal)would not be acceptable. We should be able to get 7-9k Hoya fans in New York and produce something close to an intense neutral site close to our largest and wealthiest alumni center. Saturday games in December would be wonderful. We have to get over the fact that they have more fans and more intense fans than we do and figure out how we hold on to and build the size and intensity of our fan base. This series will help. In nine years in the post Boheim era and with success of our program and new Big East in NYC, maybe we can say good-by or negotiate a better deal, but let's not have false Hoya pride get in the way of a deal that helps us. Who cares who publicized it? No. Games in NYC will essentially be SYR home games. You can't wish that away. So if they wanna play us at MSG/Barclays, then it needs to officially be their home game. Their stupid "New York's College Team" ads are on every other cab in NYC. There would be nothing neutral about it. |
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 12, 2013 11:07:05 GMT -5
I would not have a problem with a three-year rotation over nine years played at the Dome, Verizon and MSG/Barclay's provided that we get a chance to sell half of the NYC games to our ticket base before the tix go on the market generally. A 10-year deal, with four games in the Dome (which I presume is the current proposal)would not be acceptable. We should be able to get 7-9k Hoya fans in New York and produce something close to an intense neutral site close to our largest and wealthiest alumni center. Saturday games in December would be wonderful. We have to get over the fact that they have more fans and more intense fans than we do and figure out how we hold on to and build the size and intensity of our fan base. This series will help. In nine years in the post Boheim era and with success of our program and new Big East in NYC, maybe we can say good-by or negotiate a better deal, but let's not have false Hoya pride get in the way of a deal that helps us. Who cares who publicized it? No. Games in NYC will essentially be SYR home games. You can't wish that away. So if they wanna play us at MSG/Barclays, then it needs to officially be their home game. Their stupid "New York's College Team" ads are on every other cab in NYC. There would be nothing neutral about it. This. We may have a good alum presence in NYC, but they just have sooooo many more alums than we do, and half their student body is from LI and NJ. And if the are going to use the ridiculous "NY College Team" tagline, they should get the negative implications of it. |
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Sept 12, 2013 11:31:00 GMT -5
We are a small private school, they are a large private school. They probably have more alums than we do in any city except DC.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 12, 2013 11:35:17 GMT -5
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Sept 12, 2013 11:58:57 GMT -5
Lest we forget, JT3 went public with a likely resumption of the Cuse series before Daryl Gross opened his yap: Ben Standig Had it First |
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Sept 12, 2013 12:30:45 GMT -5
As a colleague who is a Syracuse native put it, "Daryl Gross is a show horse, not a work horse."
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royski
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Post by royski on Sept 12, 2013 14:59:40 GMT -5
Just schedule the series. I don't care where we play it, so long as there are an equal number of games in Syracuse and DC. And I'd be willing to start it on the road. Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face. This series has been tremendous for our program, and can continue to be. It has a very high level of interest throughout the country, and is great for exposure and recruiting. And besides all that, it's really fun basketball, and a game that we've all looked forward to every year.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Sept 12, 2013 15:14:08 GMT -5
We are a small private school, they are a large private school. They probably have more alums than we do in any city except DC. They are bigger yes but I wouldn't say they are a big school and we are a small school. The numbers are too close for that. They have 21K total students to our 17K. Our number is more undergrad heavy for sure, but I'm not sure we are really a small school anymore. I think Cuse is a large private school and we are at least a mid-sized one with 7K undergrads. Small schools are Amherst and Williams and Colgate. I think the real difference is their alums seem pretty Cuse sports obsessed to a man, to a weird degree frankly. And I'm sure next to none of our grad students give a toss about the Hoyas. Theirs? Not a LOT to do up there..... |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 12, 2013 16:11:38 GMT -5
We are a small private school, they are a large private school. They probably have more alums than we do in any city except DC. They are bigger yes but I wouldn't say they are a big school and we are a small school. The numbers are too close for that. They have 21K total students to our 17K. Our number is more undergrad heavy for sure, but I'm not sure we are really a small school anymore. I think Cuse is a large private school and we are at least a mid-sized one with 7K undergrads. Small schools are Amherst and Williams and Colgate. I think the real difference is their alums seem pretty Cuse sports obsessed to a man, to a weird degree frankly. And I'm sure next to none of our grad students give a toss about the Hoyas. Theirs? Not a LOT to do up there..... These numbers are hugely misleading. The most important number is undergraduate enrollment because that is what drives sports attendance and interest. Georgetown has about 7500 undergraduates to Syracuse's 15000. By default, Syracuse has 2x the base, and it could be even more exaggerated when you consider alumni, since Georgetown 30 years ago was smaller and had lower enrollment. That's really a huge difference. The other factor is that Syracuse tends to pull its student base disproportionately from New York and the surrounding area, whereas Georgetown's student body tends to disperse widely after graduation (obviously, with big concentrations in NY and DC, but nothing compared to Syracuse's concentration of alumni in NY). I do think Syracuse's alumni are probably more sports-obsessed than Georgetown (as you said, there's not much to do there in the winter), too. All those factors really hurt us when trying to turn out as many fans, but student body size is the most important factor. |
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Sept 12, 2013 16:30:54 GMT -5
Why? I understand that many still pine for what has been lost-the glory of the former Big East. But it was not lost-it was taken by the ACC and the greed of a handful of schools such as Syracuse, Pitt and Notre Dame who longed for the big dollars that major football brings. I know that I am in a small minority here, but to me it would be wrong to reward schools like Syracuse by giving them a contract in the near term. Unless and until the new Big East is firmly established as a major basketball power conference again, I see no upside to further enhancing a Syracuse program already guaranteed games against ACC powerhouses each year. Yes, playing teams like Syracuse helps our recruiting-and theirs. This can easily be replaced with national games against other programs on Fox. Play Texas, UCLA, Arizona, and Kansas. These games will draw the same national attention. Play Connecticut, Memphis and Temple among other teams victimized by the football greed. If we must pray at the football temple then continue to schedule Florida, Alabama and perhaps a Kentucky.
That said, if we must play Syracuse then do so as equals, not some desperate mid-major hoping to enhance its image. Half the games in the Verizon and the other half wherever the Orange want to play. No need for rebuttal. I understand that few agree and I understand why. I just do not agree with the rationale of preserving a traditional rivalry at all costs.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 12, 2013 16:51:32 GMT -5
This is not about pining for the "glory of the former Big East." This is about scheduling a high quality game against a highly competitive basketball program, which happens to have a history that enhances the matchup. The fact is we need this series because our conference doesn't provide these types of matchups anymore, whereas, Syracuse will have plenty of high quality conference opponents. The idea that we shouldn't "reward" Syracuse does not make sense, when the alternative is giving away a sure sell-out at the Verizon Center, and a game with high national interest.
Playing teams like Texas, UCLA, Louisville, etc. would be great, but it's not easy to get those games scheduled and they don't have the history or interest level Syracuse brings to the table. They will not draw the "same national attention." What do you think is more likely to end up with a prime spot on CBS or national TV? Georgetown v. Syracuse or Georgetown v. Arizona? It's not even close.
The only other opponent that might garner a similar level of interest is Maryland, and that's only because of geographical reasons, and nothing more.
Thus, for me, it's not about preserving a traditional rivalry at all costs. Rather, it's about ensuring we have a high quality OOC opponent that will sell tickets, improve hour home schedule, and guarantee a pretty good OOC game each year.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 12, 2013 16:52:29 GMT -5
"Executive Senior Associate Athletics Director/Chief Communications Officer for External Affairs Joe Giansante ..." Gotta love titles in academia. So, is there a Chief Communications Officer for Internal Affairs... |
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Sept 12, 2013 17:13:59 GMT -5
This is not about pining for the "glory of the former Big East." This is about scheduling a high quality game against a highly competitive basketball program, which happens to have a history that enhances the matchup. The fact is we need this series because our conference doesn't provide these types of matchups anymore, whereas, Syracuse will have plenty of high quality conference opponents. The idea that we shouldn't "reward" Syracuse does not make sense, when the alternative is giving away a sure sell-out at the Verizon Center, and a game with high national interest. Playing teams like Texas, UCLA, Louisville, etc. would be great, but it's not easy to get those games scheduled and they don't have the history or interest level Syracuse brings to the table. They will not draw the "same national attention." What do you think is more likely to end up with a prime spot on CBS or national TV? Georgetown v. Syracuse or Georgetown v. Arizona? It's not even close. The only other opponent that might garner a similar level of interest is Maryland, and that's only because of geographical reasons, and nothing more. Thus, for me, it's not about preserving a traditional rivalry at all costs. Rather, it's about ensuring we have a high quality OOC opponent that will sell tickets, improve hour home schedule, and guarantee a pretty good OOC game each year. Completely understand your views but simply disagree. I do think that the Hoyas playing Michigan, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, or UCLA would garner the same level of interest as a game with Syracuse. Ditto for games against Florida and Ohio State. Syracuse is relevant because of the success of its aging coach. He won't be there to see the end of a ten year contract. St. John's, DePaul, North Carolina, Georgetown and many other traditional powerhouses have shown that the loss of a coach means everything to the success of the program. There is nothing magical about Syracuse. Let's see how many prize recruits flock north when Boeheim is gone and they can still play the same tough conference schedule while attending school in a more urban or warmer climate. As for rivalries, I can remember when Hoyas-DePaul was must watch television and a major national game. The same was true for North Carolina--North Carolina State. Programs and rivalries tend to ebb and flow and those that endure are largely based around conferences. We can go on but it seems obvious that I will not convince you or most others. I am in the minority on this--it is my blind spot. |
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Sept 12, 2013 18:54:42 GMT -5
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Sept 12, 2013 19:28:42 GMT -5
Just don't get the argument suggesting we shouldn't play them in MSG. We play anyone, anywhere .....just look at our schedule. Sign up the Cuse.
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