lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 10, 2013 9:08:14 GMT -5
Two points NEED moses wright now and dsr well sorry but he was the point guard on the best high school team in the country Oak Hill. and they have pretty darn good players so i believe he will come along not just for threes. go hoyas Moses to the promised land would be nice NOW. ;D ;D ;D
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 10, 2013 10:03:06 GMT -5
I'm lost as to why Lubick loses PT in your scenario and not Hopkins.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2013 12:12:57 GMT -5
I told you Moses is ready...he's a man...Hopkins is simply not ready yet. He's still maturing physically and mentally on a D1 level...his inconsistencies show this...Moses has earned his keep now it's time to play him period...coach him up on the court...he'll be fine...
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2013 12:14:56 GMT -5
Hopefully this is a wakeup call to the team in general, but also a wakeup call to coach about giving more minutes to DSR and Moses. Theres no use in playing a 6 man rotation if we are looking at a bottom half finish in the Big East. Might as well develop your bench. If you play DSR a lot, you likely won't win any games. The kid is in over his head, not good enough for this level of competition. Besides anyone who plays as half assed on the defensive end as he does, doesn't warrant taking the warmups off. Moses getting to play was the only positive from this crappy night. RDF, no disrespect, but I do not agree ....there's a lot of mental things that go on with this...DSR at the helm is a good thing and even Bril he's a smart player too...
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2013 12:16:28 GMT -5
The guy is just overmatched athletically at this level and if he isn't scoring, it's playing 4 on 5--but problem is--with this year's team depending on who is out there with him--it could be 1 or 2 on 5. Just have never seen what was attractive about his game? He doesn't defend, you make him go off the dribble and he has no mid range game other then a fadeaway jumper from FT line. Put a more athletic defender on him, he can't get a shot off. He's not explosive or big enough to finish at rim but has no mid range game or floater? So he's 1 dimensional and his defense is about as putrid as it gets. He's at least tried to stay engaged for a few seconds instead of none--but it's really bad watching a game on DVR and going over a play and seeing him stand straight up and giving up penetration, easy shots, forcing teammates to rotate and be out of position which leads to easy hoops or offensive rebounds, and get teammates in foul trouble too. So not a lot to like in my opinion but then again I've seen him do this for years, so it's frustrating to wonder why anyone hasn't made him change or seen him do that prior to bringing him in? You give that kid DSR the green light and he will ball out...I've seen this kid play for a long time...he did well this summer against pro's (nba) and other top notch college players...I know this is a lil different but it's still hoops...
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2013 12:17:15 GMT -5
To take it back to Moses -- there is no reason for him not to start against St. John's. I think he earned it. Hopkins had his second straight terrible game and Moses showed he can at least be on the floor. If he starts and plays badly, then just bring Hopkins in off the bench. If I am JT3 I open up my starting line-up completely and just play whoever has the best week of practice. Also, Domingo and Bowen need to play at this point. I am fine with a limited rotation when you are winning, but when you are not scoring and are putting up historic losses, there is no point. At this point, if EVERYONE in our starting line-up is not playing well, there is a good chance we will lose. Its time to give the bench, particularly Bowen, a chance to see what they can do in a game situation when it matters. Love this!!! Right on point!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 10, 2013 12:17:26 GMT -5
As I wrote in another thread, DSR is the 4th most efficient player on the team, he almost never turns the ball over (best rate on the team), he gets to the free throw line more often than anybody except Hopkins, and he hasn't even been shooting as well as we think he can. Personally, I'd like to see a lineup of something like: Starks-DSR-Whittington-Porter-BIG MAN (Lubick or Moses).
While we give up a little defensively, it's actually not a terrible defensive lineup because Porter / Whittington / and the big men would ensure a decent defense. It might not be our best, but I will take the tradeoff if it means points. I really think this could potentially be our best offensive lineup right now, though we may never get a chance to see if that's actually so.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2013 12:19:15 GMT -5
OH and he had the audacity to retweet someone last night saying that "he should have more of a role playing". GTFO Shucks he's right the kid can play if you let him go!!! Try starting him or giving him early minutes...we'll see...
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Jan 10, 2013 12:44:28 GMT -5
As I wrote in another thread, DSR is the 4th most efficient player on the team, he almost never turns the ball over (best rate on the team), he gets to the free throw line more often than anybody except Hopkins, and he hasn't even been shooting as well as we think he can. Personally, I'd like to see a lineup of something like: Starks-DSR-Whittington-Porter-BIG MAN (Lubick or Moses). While we give up a little defensively, it's actually not a terrible defensive lineup because Porter / Whittington / and the big men would ensure a decent defense. It might not be our best, but I will take the tradeoff if it means points. I really think this could potentially be our best offensive lineup right now, though we may never get a chance to see if that's actually so. You play that lineup and your bigs will rack up fouls, you'll continue to give up layups/dunks as his area (zone) or man will get past him and force them to rotate and chain reaction is going to be bad result for Hoyas against this level of opponent. The warning signs have been there, it's just a matter of Hoyas opponent going up--look at the performances against UCLA/IU/TN/TX and then his performances against Marquette/Pitt. Where some liked what they saw from Moses in a blowout loss-it's because he isn't a member of the rotation so he showed some things that can't be worse then who is playing ahead of him. For DSR to earn time-he's got to knock down jumpshots to counter the amount of points/fouls he's going to give up and cost his teammates. A perfect example was in Marquette game where Hoyas were in the back and forth part of game in 2nd Half and Hopkins picks up a cheap foul on a play where DSR's guy beats him and if he dug down to double when Mikael stepped up to stop the ball, Hoyas get a steal--instead he stands straight up, watches as Marquette player continues to drive and gets shot off/foul on Hopkins. If he just did what you're taught in Junior High School, the Hoyas get a steal and possible hoop and at worse make the player pick the ball up/tie up. Instead it's a foul, 2 FT's for Marquette (lose by 2 and plays like that matter just as much as what was/wasn't done late in game) and a foul on Hopkins who was more effective defending Gardner then anyone else on team that day. Glide, I've seen the kid play since he was a Soph in HS in Indiana. I'm not basing this off a few games into his FR season.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 10, 2013 13:44:26 GMT -5
DSR is probably the second best ball handler on the team. He's also an outside threat. He's still a freshman learning the ropes offensively and defensively for BE play so let's give him time to settle in and see how he does down the road. I'd also like to see Domingo get more run, also to see how he does over the long haul. If we don't develop more scoring options it's going to be a long, long season. And Moses should be a given.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 10, 2013 13:59:39 GMT -5
One thing RDF is right about -- DSR needs to hit shots better than who he'd be replacing. That was true versus Pitt (b/c of the FTs and everyone else's inability to hit anything) -- but he's not exactly lighting it up, either.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 10, 2013 14:08:41 GMT -5
One thing RDF is right about -- DSR needs to hit shots better than who he'd be replacing. That was true versus Pitt (b/c of the FTs and everyone else's inability to hit anything) -- but he's not exactly lighting it up, either. This is true, but I think the odds that DSR improves are just as good as anybody else. He is already efficient offensively, and his shooting percentage has been terrible. If he can get it up, his efficiency will skyrocket and we'll be better off for it. My feeling is that DSR will, at some point in his Hoya career, be a very good quality offensive player for us. We should all remember that while Jason Clark was always a good shooter, his defense also left a LOT to be desired for most of his career. He did step it up as a senior - hopefully DSR can do the same before his senior year. The advantage of the Starks-DSR-Whittington-Porter-Big Man lineup is that it really has only one player who cannot score at all or has little potential to do so. When we play Lubick + Moses or Hopkins, we have two players out there who cannot score, which kills us.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jan 10, 2013 14:12:30 GMT -5
DSR is probably the second best ball handler on the team. He's also an outside threat. He's still a freshman learning the ropes offensively and defensively for BE play so let's give him time to settle in and see how he does down the road. I'd also like to see Domingo get more run, also to see how he does over the long haul. If we don't develop more scoring options it's going to be a long, long season. And Moses should be a given. [RDF] BUT I'VE BEEN WATCHING DSR PLAY SINCE HE WAS 4 YEARS OLD, AND HE DOESN'T TRY ON DEFENSE, AND HE STANDS UPRIGHT, AND ONE TIME I HEARD HE PULLED A DOG'S TAIL WHICH WAS REALLY MEAN, AND HE SHOULD NEVER PLAY FOR GEORGETOWN AGAIN. [/RDF] Common sense dictates that this team needs to try something dramatically different on offense. If that means more Moses, DSR, and Domingo, so be it. I would rather lose badly while trotting out everyone on the bench to see if anything works, if the alternative is to lose a little less badly while sticking with an ineffective 7-man rotation.
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BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
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Post by BigmanU on Jan 10, 2013 14:13:44 GMT -5
As I wrote in another thread, DSR is the 4th most efficient player on the team, he almost never turns the ball over (best rate on the team), he gets to the free throw line more often than anybody except Hopkins, and he hasn't even been shooting as well as we think he can. Personally, I'd like to see a lineup of something like: Starks-DSR-Whittington-Porter-BIG MAN (Lubick or Moses). While we give up a little defensively, it's actually not a terrible defensive lineup because Porter / Whittington / and the big men would ensure a decent defense. It might not be our best, but I will take the tradeoff if it means points. I really think this could potentially be our best offensive lineup right now, though we may never get a chance to see if that's actually so. You play that lineup and your bigs will rack up fouls, you'll continue to give up layups/dunks as his area (zone) or man will get past him and force them to rotate and chain reaction is going to be bad result for Hoyas against this level of opponent. The warning signs have been there, it's just a matter of Hoyas opponent going up--look at the performances against UCLA/IU/TN/TX and then his performances against Marquette/Pitt. Where some liked what they saw from Moses in a blowout loss-it's because he isn't a member of the rotation so he showed some things that can't be worse then who is playing ahead of him. For DSR to earn time-he's got to knock down jumpshots to counter the amount of points/fouls he's going to give up and cost his teammates. A perfect example was in Marquette game where Hoyas were in the back and forth part of game in 2nd Half and Hopkins picks up a cheap foul on a play where DSR's guy beats him and if he dug down to double when Mikael stepped up to stop the ball, Hoyas get a steal--instead he stands straight up, watches as Marquette player continues to drive and gets shot off/foul on Hopkins. If he just did what you're taught in Junior High School, the Hoyas get a steal and possible hoop and at worse make the player pick the ball up/tie up. Instead it's a foul, 2 FT's for Marquette (lose by 2 and plays like that matter just as much as what was/wasn't done late in game) and a foul on Hopkins who was more effective defending Gardner then anyone else on team that day. Glide, I've seen the kid play since he was a Soph in HS in Indiana. I'm not basing this off a few games into his FR season. Completely agree with all the points in this post. I wanted to put this into words but, you just did.
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BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
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Post by BigmanU on Jan 10, 2013 14:17:08 GMT -5
Starting Moses over Hopkins is the easy part. Starting DSR would not work because his offense will not make up for the liability he is on defense. Until he starts filling up the basket (which I hope he does) he can't be out there for extended periods of time. I actually want to see him do well.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 10, 2013 14:32:13 GMT -5
From my point of view, seems like what we have here (and I could be way off base) is a bit of a forcing of a square peg into a round hole at times. Yes, GU runs "their STUFF" and they're LONG. But why get enamored with that?
Long doesn't necessarily stop fast or quick. Long doesn't necessarily score against fast and quick as well... I love GW and OP - every player... I think GU has the parts to be VERY good, but they don't seem to be used correctly. There is something to be said regarding loyalty, rewarding, and seniority... But, you have players that have talents sitting on the bench, can you not use them is spot duty to help the team to become more formidable come-march? Is the "system" complicated or simple?
I say square peg in a round hole sometimes because the current starting lineup doesn't always work against certain teams with good to great guard play and a brawny center. And the current bench as utilized doesn't work either. I guess it could, but why not try?
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2013 14:33:53 GMT -5
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Jan 10, 2013 14:36:21 GMT -5
DSR is probably the second best ball handler on the team. He's also an outside threat. He's still a freshman learning the ropes offensively and defensively for BE play so let's give him time to settle in and see how he does down the road. I'd also like to see Domingo get more run, also to see how he does over the long haul. If we don't develop more scoring options it's going to be a long, long season. And Moses should be a given. [RDF] BUT I'VE BEEN WATCHING DSR PLAY SINCE HE WAS 4 YEARS OLD, AND HE DOESN'T TRY ON DEFENSE, AND HE STANDS UPRIGHT, AND ONE TIME I HEARD HE PULLED A DOG'S TAIL WHICH WAS REALLY MEAN, AND HE SHOULD NEVER PLAY FOR GEORGETOWN AGAIN. [/RDF] Common sense dictates that this team needs to try something dramatically different on offense. If that means more Moses, DSR, and Domingo, so be it. I would rather lose badly while trotting out everyone on the bench to see if anything works, if the alternative is to lose a little less badly while sticking with an ineffective 7-man rotation. Common sense also says that when a team can't score, it's not a great idea to give more time to a player who is going to give the other team a lot of points because he can't defend and breaks down. You can mock what I've said about the guy all you want--nothing he does now has changed from how he played in HS. Now if you choose to blame the Hoya staff, I see your point because it's up to them to rid him of his "habits". We'll see how it turns out and if he hits shots, that would be a big boost to the team, but it's not going to happen in all likelihood because he'll be facing superior athleticism which he's always struggled to perform against.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 10, 2013 14:38:11 GMT -5
Basically what I get out of these threads is:
Are you athletic and unskilled? UNLIMITED CHANCES. Are you relatively unathletic, but more effective? NEVER PLAY.
Mikael is sucking, so Nate should sit? We shouldn't ever try DSR even though 2 of our 3 guards have a sub-100 ORating?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 10, 2013 14:57:44 GMT -5
Basically what I get out of these threads is: Are you athletic and unskilled? UNLIMITED CHANCES. Are you relatively unathletic, but more effective? NEVER PLAY. Mikael is sucking, so Nate should sit? We shouldn't ever try DSR even though 2 of our 3 guards have a sub-100 ORating? But from the 8 games I've seen this season, I haven't seen that Hopkins athleticism that some talk about. As a matter of fact, he stands around a lot looking at plays, his no-jump missed lay-ups (instead of an athletic dunk) are more common than not and he cannot rebound. I'm not sure if he's jumping out of McDonough in practice, but if you cannot show what you have in BE games, then it's like the Nikita and Thorton legend all over again. Give Moses a chance to play 20 mins (with breathers) and let's see what he can do.
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