jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 24, 2013 18:07:07 GMT -5
The real issue is that there are like 10 different pressing needs right now. And because the university is pressed for money and space it become very difficult to solve any of these problems.
Obviously I am not saying anything new. All of you know that.
The MSB and Science center were the easiest to build because there was space. So now the IAC is easiest because there is space (this is a simplification of the issue of course, there are many more factors).
What DFW brings up about Reiss and the library is interesting. While we can debate the architectural merits of Lau (I have grown to like it more over time), we call all agree that inside, it doesnt work at all. Well it works in the sense that it holds books, but it lacks enough windows and other amenities to that make it useful to students to use the building for man than just getting books. Its just not a fun space to be in.
The rejuvenation of Lau has been discussed, including that expansion from a few years back. I know that one of the problems that was identified, with in the library administration at least, was that the graduate student rooms that line the upper floors block off much of the light that could enter the building and make it look very dark from the outside. It needs an update in almost every way.
I was thinking (hoping) that the new science center would open up space in Reiss. You could then basically use Reiss as a temporary home for a number of offices over a series of years. So first move all the books from one level of the library into the empty space in Reiss and redo that floor of the library. Repeat until done redoing the library. The same process could be used for any building on campus the needs interior work.
Offices and classrooms are the easiest to do because they fit so well in Reiss already. But this could even be done for dorms or Yates. Then once this is all done (never) you can repurpose Reiss or tear it down.
Of course the is a pipe dream because there is no money for this.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Mar 25, 2013 10:14:46 GMT -5
The original plan (or one of them) was that once Regents Hall is opened, Reiss will be gutted and retrofitted one floor at a time, with the intent of keeping the space for science classrooms/labs/offices. At least at one point, the idea was that Regents would be focused on bio/chem and Reiss would eventually house physics/math/computer science. I don't know how that squares with the current state of things, including the housing of some classrooms and offices in St. Mary's or on the med school campus. But I do think there was a desire that Regents would not be a replacement for Reiss and the previous science facilities so much as an addition to them.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Mar 25, 2013 10:21:19 GMT -5
As to the proposal for a new dorm across the walkway from Reiss, I think it's a great plan. That patch of hillside is underused, partly due to neglect, but partly for structural reasons that wouldn't be solved by better landscaping.
1. The slope of the hill, which will likely need to be addressed by a retaining wall in the event of dorm construction, prevents significant changes to the landscaping. 2. The space is in shade for most of the day, due to the hill to the east, ICC to the south, and Reiss to the west. 3. Nobody lives there, and the space is a corridor, not a crossroads or a destination. You could conceivably build a (very small) amphitheatre or something else that would be quasi-programmable space, but the poorly-built amphitheatre stretching from red square to the bottom of the ICC demonstrates that, "if you built it, they may not necessarily come."
Arguably, if the greenspace is reduced by 90% for the construction of a residence hall, that 10% will be used far more than the existing full stretch of space.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 25, 2013 12:30:54 GMT -5
I haven't followed all of this as closely as I should have. Is the need to add more beds on campus something we came up with? Was it forced upon us by the neighbors? A concession to get approval for something else?
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Mar 25, 2013 12:45:55 GMT -5
Part of a comprehensive agreement with the neighborhood associations and the ANC, which led to a settlement of the campus plan (rather than what happened 10 years ago, which was 3 years of continuous litigation).
The undergrad housing requirements are (roughly): - move students currently living in Magis Row (~65 students) back onto campus, converting Magis Row townhouses into anything other than student housing. - add ~400 additional beds on campus.
The timeframe is (I think) by the beginning of the 2014-15 academic year.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 25, 2013 13:48:51 GMT -5
The Planning 102 presentation (see slide 9 - www.scribd.com/fullscreen/131692042?access_key=key-twr5zjjyohlnpu1f8kk ) had Magis Row removed of students by Fall 2013 but the relocation of 385 students out of the neighborhood not until Fall 2015. It is not inconceivable that a new residence hall could be built by then, although it would require a real concerted effort. I think there may be a hope that the neighbors and ANC will be so supportive of moving more students on campus that it will get strong support that lets it sail through zoning and OGB/CFA approval (the chair of the ANC, Ron Lewis, is the husband of Anne Lewis, who is one of the OGB members). I don't know what the funding mechanism would look like, although I imagine it would involve a lot of bonds. The repurposing concept can stimulate some interesting thinking, but ultimately there is a space crunch that shuffling offices and buildings doesn't solve. We need more sq ft, and we need it yesterday. There's definitely going to be a continuation of the "selective eviction" of auxiliary departments, which has already taken place with the removal of things like UIS, Advancement, the Investment Office, etc. to Wisconsin Avenue. Georgetown Downtown will accommodate the growth in professional programs and frees up main campus space, particularly in the evenings. The space in Clarendon that they are vacating will probably be repurposed for some other use. GPPI will move off-campus eventually as well to be closer to downtown. Unfortunately, the Leavey garage is part and parcel of the hotel & conference center. As long as the latter stays, the garage space stays. That is a lot of space that could be built into something useful (albeit windowless). It seems that the Lauinger renovation/expansion is now the #3 major construction project at best (that's not counting either the Georgetown Downtown buildout or the New South Student Center buildout), behind the IAC and this new dorm. That's understandable, but I really do hope that it is not forgotten and reemerges as a priority within the next few years, as it is badly needed.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 25, 2013 14:03:05 GMT -5
Campus building projects are simply not built that fast.-- ANC, BZA, Old Georgetown Board, Office of Fine Arts, designs, fundraising, agreements with Visitation on easements...this is simply not a turnkey project in less than two years.
"If" rooms are not being converted in Leavey (and there's still a question about that), the 2014-15 agreement is still legally in place, and the alternative becomes a) housing students outside 20007 and busing them in (this was done in the late 1970's when Village A was delayed and a few hundred of students lived in a motel off Route 50 in Arlington) or b) triples in dorm rooms.
The library project is not in the current campus plan or the capital campaign, so any substantive construction couldn't even be on the table until the 2020s.
Meanwhile, the MSF sits forlorn in the center of campus, a monument to institutional inertia.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Mar 25, 2013 14:52:46 GMT -5
Part of a comprehensive agreement with the neighborhood associations and the ANC, which led to a settlement of the campus plan (rather than what happened 10 years ago, which was 3 years of continuous litigation). The undergrad housing requirements are (roughly): - move students currently living in Magis Row (~65 students) back onto campus, converting Magis Row townhouses into anything other than student housing. - add ~400 additional beds on campus. The timeframe is (I think) by the beginning of the 2014-15 academic year. The last campus plan led to SEVEN years of litigation (final order was issued in August 2007). And the current plan calls for moving magis row by Fall 2013, and the remaining 385 beds by Fall 2015. As for MSF in response to DFW's post -- I'd argue that there are other factors as well -- more pressing priorities, limited funding, a recession, and so on.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Mar 25, 2013 15:09:23 GMT -5
tables -- I can't believe I underestimated the lawsuits by so much.
While it doesn't factor into the current campaign, I believe the Lauinger expansion was actually included in the 2000 campus plan. So while it would need to go through all of the remaining steps, it wouldn't have to wait for the 2017 campus plan to begin the process. (Not that there will be money for it before then, anyway).
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 25, 2013 15:20:15 GMT -5
Campus building projects are simply not built that fast.-- ANC, BZA, Old Georgetown Board, Office of Fine Arts, designs, fundraising, agreements with Visitation on easements...this is simply not a turnkey project in less than two years. The slide, and the discussion at the meeting, said Fall 2015. That's two and a half years from now. The library project is not in the current campus plan or the capital campaign, so any substantive construction couldn't even be on the table until the 2020s. Most likely, unless a major benefactor interested in it appears. But for substantive construction to begin then, it has to be a top, if not the top, priority by the end of this decade. Meanwhile, the MSF sits forlorn in the center of campus, a monument to institutional inertia. It's a monument to a lot of things, including lack of ownership (no senior leader ever truly 'owned' the MSF as a project), lack of interest (if the football program were abolished tomorrow, how many students would care? How much do students/alums care about Georgetown lacrosse?), and lack of basic project management (you're going to have a grand opening for something that's not guaranteed to be complete for over a decade later? You're going to make promises to recruits and donors when you have absolutely no confidence in what you're saying?). In all honesty, though, at this point the IAC will have a much greater impact on those programs than whatever bare-bones version of the MSF ultimately ends up being built.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Mar 25, 2013 17:30:03 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure there's a Lauinger addition in the 2010 plan as well. It would still need further processing approval, but it is at least in the plan.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 28, 2013 9:34:11 GMT -5
Washington Biz Journal teases out some quotes regarding the future of the medical center that go beyond the usual blanket denial boilerplate - www.bizjournals.com/washington/breaking_ground/2013/03/on-georgetowns-crowded-campus.htmlQuoting at length: Chris Augostini, Georgetown’s senior vice president and chief operating officer, stressed that no decisions have been made, and he reiterated that there’s little chance that both the hospital and the medical school will be “airlifted” away to some other location, perhaps Poplar Point or Hill East or St. Elizabeths east. But he acknowledged that changes could be coming to the medical portion of the campus, which consumes roughly 25 of the 104 acres.
“I can’t imagine imminently,” he said. “You can’t fix the kinds of problems you’re articulating in 48 hours. When you try, you fail.”
While Augostini said he expects a clinical presence to remain on the campus into the foreseeable future, “we would be crazy not to plan” for an incremental shift over time. MedStar, which holds a 99-year ground lease on the hospital, was adamant that a move is not coming, at least in the short term. In the long term, the question is fuzzy.
“I think that, whatever we call that parcel, the Georgetown campus, has got on it three thriving organizations — the university, the medical school and the hospital,” said Jean Hitchcock, MedStar spokeswoman. “All of them hope to grow, and the question is, they’re in a confined area and something’s got to give.”
“Building a new hospital for Georgetown is not an immediate decision we have to make, but we know it’s one that’s going to be made,” Hitchcock continued. “But it’s got to be done in conjunction with the university.”
In the next couple years, Georgetown expects to spend a couple hundred million dollars upgrading the physical plant on the main campus. The school has agreed, as part of its recently updated campus master plan, to move 450 undergraduate students out of the Georgetown neighborhood and onto campus by 2015. Seven sites have been identified on campus for new housing. But the real spending comes later, as the university sets out to develop more residences, improve traffic patterns, build a green footprint, integrate the campus into the larger Georgetown community and sustain its 3 percent to 6 percent annual growth. “This is an engine that’s constantly growing and 104 acres is never going to accommodate that kind of growth,” Augostini said.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 28, 2013 10:01:25 GMT -5
Reading between the lines:
1. MedStar wants a new hospital on the campus, which would require ceding the North Kehoe land and perhaps Yates. They aren't giving up any land in return, and at some point Georgetown said no.
2. Georgetown would like the Poplar Point, St. Elizabeth's, or Hill East (Res 13) areas to open up and moving the research and clinical elements of GUMC is a no-brainer. However, it takes two, and until MedStar is ready to move and DC is ready to provide bonds for construction, it's stuck in neutral.
Best-case scenario: All the parties (DC, GU, MedStar) commit to a $600-800 million project to provide clinical, research, and ambulatory health care in Southeast. The Med School remains on campus but most of the remaining physical plant there is repurposed or razed to provide more green space abutting the neighborhood. MedStar gets new facilities, Georgetown gets its land back, and traffic is significantly reduced along Reservoir.
Worst-case scenario: Neither side budges, the hospital, and by extension, the medical school deteriorates (the hospital was built in 1947, after all), and the Southeast parcels are sold to developers.
Likely-case scenario: No movement on relocation, both sides wait for an offer from the District, lots of money spent on architects and consultants.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 28, 2013 20:47:11 GMT -5
So what is the benefit for Med Star to stay on campus in an aging (to put it lightly) hospital, all the while Editeding people off?
The only reason I can think of is being close to undergrad students, which is a pretty weak reason. Are there others?
Or does Med Star just want someone else to pay for its new hospital and then it will be happy.
We dont know all the details of course, but from all the information I have seen, if I am running med star I would see this as an opportunity to establish a state of the art facility in a major city that already has a cutting edge cancer ward and is affiliated with a world class university. But I am biased.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 1, 2013 14:33:06 GMT -5
I think the other major upside for MedStar staying in Georgetown is having a higher rate of paying or insured customers, versus providing a higher level of uncompensated care in a Southeast location.
I don't think Georgetown would have any problem with such a move, particularly as it plays into the social justice and "men and women for others" character of the school, but I can see where MedStar might.
I wonder if there's some midpoint scenario, in which most of GUMC, including the Med School and most of the hospital, is moved to a new location, but in turn, a new, smaller clinical building or two are built on the existing GUMC location, providing services to nearby residents...
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sead43
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Post by sead43 on Apr 24, 2013 12:36:15 GMT -5
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Apr 24, 2013 14:00:02 GMT -5
Great, another place for the LNS crowd.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on May 16, 2013 10:05:39 GMT -5
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sead43
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Post by sead43 on Oct 2, 2013 15:12:27 GMT -5
4. Still no discussions, publicly anyway, about what to do with Ryan, Gervase, and Mulledy. this update was posted yesterday about the old jes res: blogs.commons.georgetown.edu/masterplanning/2013/10/01/university-requests-change-in-use-for-old-jesuit-residence/However, something is off about that post. It says that "the Mulledy Building and Ryan Hall are vacant." I know for a fact that Ryan Hall is not vacant. The 2nd floor of Ryan houses offices for the Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life, the Catholic Studies Program, and the Office of the President. I can't speak to the other floors, but I was recently on the 2nd floor myself and the offices seem to be recently renovated and were most certainly occupied. As the post mentions, Gervase is also largely occupied by offices. No idea what's up with Mulledy.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Oct 2, 2013 15:56:59 GMT -5
Once renovated, that would be a pretty awesome place to live as an undergrad. Can't beat the location with a stick...and such history.
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