IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 19:20:46 GMT -5
Post #20 of this thread, you said: We went 2-2 this post season and blew a tire in the NCAA's. Another failure by the program. Again. Other than that, do you. Sorry I read your post as the program was a failure.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 18, 2012 19:25:34 GMT -5
LOL You, sir "hoyaLS05" have a great mind.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 18, 2012 19:36:47 GMT -5
I wasn't talking to you. But since you are here...
Very few people here agree with your viewpoint that the post-season is all that matters. Any rational person understands that evaluating the ability of a team based on a single-elimination tournament (or two) is simply a fundamentally flawed way to do things. It's an emotional response.
And what's the point in arguing about an emotional response to someone who values different things than me and isn't interested in a rational analysis? Most of us here are interested in an accurate evaluation of a team in the context of the total season.
As for the rest, the fact that one of the first things you brought up is "I got the gears hard in the BB recruiting thread" -- it just speaks to your motivation to my mind. Why debate someone who is more interested in saying "I told you" -- right or wrong -- than anything else? DFW and Big Dog and others -- their time in worth more.
Furthermore, very few of us have an interest with arguing with people who use shock-jock tactics with their facts.
Two examples:
- Item No. 1: You use the past five years for the NCAA tournament despite the ONLY reason to segment that is because that makes your argument look the most accurate. More rational for a real perspective: how about JTIII's entire tenure? But you have a conclusion and shape the facts to fit it.
- Item No. 2: You post that we are 2-2 in the full post-season and mention the BET. But you made clear the in the Brandon Bolden thread that the BET is meaningless to you (only the NCAA). Even more obvious, you ask how we've done in the BET only this year but the NCAA over the last five. Why do that? Oh, because over the last five we've made the BET finals twice?
Why should most of us listen to you? Most of us disagree with your criteria of success; you seem more interested in being proven right than the Hoyas winning; and lastly you obviously are less interested in looking at facts and coming to a conclusion than twisting facts to your conclusion.
So what's the point? Why should DFW or Big Dog or deacon or whomever waste their time arguing with you?
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Mar 18, 2012 19:46:35 GMT -5
What were some expectations for this years team? And I don't even mean dating back to October before we really got a glimpse of Otto/Greg etc.
How 'bout mid-January? Curious to know where some are coming from. My expectations were re-adjusted throughout the year as it was obvious we had more working parts than originally thought (I'm actually one of the few that thinks there is more talent top to bottom this year than last - just younger). But, I also know that I went to watch the Hoyas at MSG vs SJU after back-to-back losses and in a dogfight in the 2nd half not knowing how the rest of the game, and season would unfold.
Long-term..this young core should have their best chances to advance deep in March (or even April) by the time those guys are JR and SR'.s Jason and Henry stepped up this year to advance this team and help it overachieve. (If hollis returns and we add a piece or 2 in the spring..then next year they can be really good as well)
I do not see the sense in lumping this season in with last year (especially) and the year before that. Different team, different players, different parts of the coaching staff.
Things still need to be improved upon, but how anyone can take this year or this one specific game and come to the conclusion that this was the continuing of a disturbing a trend is beyond me. It's a bad loss, just like UC was last Thursday in the BET - and yes disturbing trends DID pop up in those games. But big picture? This year was a success, not a failure.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 18, 2012 20:01:11 GMT -5
If Porter's shot goes in, you don't write that post, and in my mind that invalidates everything you wrote. Pretty much. It's tough to take criticism seriously when it only comes after a loss. ...............
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 20:09:38 GMT -5
TC and SF, I wrote 90% of that post 3 days before the Belmont game. All except some of the intro and ending. Wanted to re-read it before posting to make sure I didn't write anything way off track, and wasn't able to find the time because I run two nonprofit organizations for work and got busy. I went back to write it half way through the second half because the same things were taking place again. If we pulled off the last ditch comeback, I would have written the post. Also, many of the same things took place against Belmont, who we should have beat by more than we did. Also, if you look at my posting history, you'll see I make criticisms after wins and in the past have given praise after losses. In fact, if people write off posts after wins as "Hey we won, why complain" and then people write off posts after losses, does it mean we shouldn't call for improvements when they are clearly needed? It's pretty clear there are ongoing gaps in our coaching. Funny how you didn't post this manifesto after the Belmont game. It's almost as if you were rooting for the Hoyas to lose so you could post this.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2012 20:12:12 GMT -5
C) Taking 3s from beyond the NBA 3 point line, sometimes 5 feet back. Players should learn to take 3s when you’re close to the line. Play at the line, don’t play 3 feet back, so when the ball comes to you, you’re ready with a half second to take the shot. . Did you not watch the NC State game or maybe you are blind. NC State killed us shooting 3s 5 feet back from the 3pt line. The reason people take that shot is because you are going to have a better look if someone doesn't guard you out that far.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,527
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 21:31:49 GMT -5
I wasn't talking to you. But since you are here... Very few people here agree with your viewpoint that the post-season is all that matters. Any rational person understands that evaluating the ability of a team based on a single-elimination tournament (or two) is simply a fundamentally flawed way to do things. It's an emotional response. And what's the point in arguing about an emotional response to someone who values different things than me and isn't interested in a rational analysis? Most of us here are interested in an accurate evaluation of a team in the context of the total season. As for the rest, the fact that one of the first things you brought up is "I got the gears hard in the BB recruiting thread" -- it just speaks to your motivation to my mind. Why debate someone who is more interested in saying "I told you" -- right or wrong -- than anything else? DFW and Big Dog and others -- their time in worth more. Furthermore, very few of us have an interest with arguing with people who use shock-jock tactics with their facts. Two examples: - Item No. 1: You use the past five years for the NCAA tournament despite the ONLY reason to segment that is because that makes your argument look the most accurate. More rational for a real perspective: how about JTIII's entire tenure? But you have a conclusion and shape the facts to fit it. - Item No. 2: You post that we are 2-2 in the full post-season and mention the BET. But you made clear the in the Brandon Bolden thread that the BET is meaningless to you (only the NCAA). Even more obvious, you ask how we've done in the BET only this year but the NCAA over the last five. Why do that? Oh, because over the last five we've made the BET finals twice? Why should most of us listen to you? Most of us disagree with your criteria of success; you seem more interested in being proven right than the Hoyas winning; and lastly you obviously are less interested in looking at facts and coming to a conclusion than twisting facts to your conclusion. So what's the point? Why should DFW or Big Dog or deacon or whomever waste their time arguing with you? I'll be honest I didn't read your posting except your last paragraph. You don't have to agree or argue with me. just stating my opinion based on the lack of results. We start strong but end flat. It's becoming who we are.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,527
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 21:36:27 GMT -5
I do not see the sense in lumping this season in with last year (especially) and the year before that. Different team, different players, different parts of the coaching staff. Same result, right?
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 18, 2012 21:49:32 GMT -5
I wasn't talking to you. But since you are here... Very few people here agree with your viewpoint that the post-season is all that matters. Any rational person understands that evaluating the ability of a team based on a single-elimination tournament (or two) is simply a fundamentally flawed way to do things. It's an emotional response. And what's the point in arguing about an emotional response to someone who values different things than me and isn't interested in a rational analysis? Most of us here are interested in an accurate evaluation of a team in the context of the total season. As for the rest, the fact that one of the first things you brought up is "I got the gears hard in the BB recruiting thread" -- it just speaks to your motivation to my mind. Why debate someone who is more interested in saying "I told you" -- right or wrong -- than anything else? DFW and Big Dog and others -- their time in worth more. Furthermore, very few of us have an interest with arguing with people who use shock-jock tactics with their facts. Two examples: - Item No. 1: You use the past five years for the NCAA tournament despite the ONLY reason to segment that is because that makes your argument look the most accurate. More rational for a real perspective: how about JTIII's entire tenure? But you have a conclusion and shape the facts to fit it. - Item No. 2: You post that we are 2-2 in the full post-season and mention the BET. But you made clear the in the Brandon Bolden thread that the BET is meaningless to you (only the NCAA). Even more obvious, you ask how we've done in the BET only this year but the NCAA over the last five. Why do that? Oh, because over the last five we've made the BET finals twice? Why should most of us listen to you? Most of us disagree with your criteria of success; you seem more interested in being proven right than the Hoyas winning; and lastly you obviously are less interested in looking at facts and coming to a conclusion than twisting facts to your conclusion. So what's the point? Why should DFW or Big Dog or deacon or whomever waste their time arguing with you? I'll be honest I didn't read your posting except your last paragraph. You don't have to agree or argue with me. just stating my opinion based on the lack of results. We start strong but end flat. It's becoming who we are. And one more reason why you are going on ignore.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 18, 2012 22:04:07 GMT -5
The thing is...except for 1 team everyone's season ends with a loss. It's pretty ridiculous to hang all of your hopes and dreams on a single elimination tournament. Whether we play NC State on Day one or Day 101, I would still have looked at that game on paper and said it's a toss up, either team could win but it should be close....I just don't get the reasoning. I feel like if we'd lost in the Sweet 16 or Final 4 or whatever, some of you would still make the same bull comments. That is the one predictable outcome after every loss.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 22:37:38 GMT -5
I'll be honest I didn't read your posting except your last paragraph. You don't have to agree or argue with me. just stating my opinion based on the lack of results. We start strong but end flat. It's becoming who we are. And one more reason why you are going on ignore. One less person I need to impress.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 19, 2012 6:33:17 GMT -5
One less person I need to impress. There's your problem. You feel the need to impress. With the B.S. you post, ain't gonna happen.
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Post by unclebeets on Mar 19, 2012 9:29:57 GMT -5
Nearly all of you know more about college hoops than I do. The following is just my gut instinct based on being an alumnus and a follower of the team since the salad days of JTII.
First, it's worth repeating that while JTIII has some leeway to bring in whomever he wants, he doesn't have nearly as much as Calipari, Boeheim, Calhoun, Donovan, etc. His father used up those chits during the Ewing era. I'm not suggesting that it is possible or desirable for JTIII to become those guys. But it is not entirely coincidental that the Hoyas won one more game than Harvard in this year's tournament.
Basketball-wise, this matters because the move to the 3-point shot and shot clock plus early eligibility has made the college game more like the NBA, and in the NBA players, not systems, win close games.
JTIII has done a very good job with the GU program -- anyone who believes otherwise is either unrealistic or has a short memory. But his system-oriented approach seems to leave his team with no meaningful options once the other side has figured out how to defend against the system. The psychology of "taking over a game" (not the best phrase but I'll go with it) never seems to take hold on the floor, even with players who might have the ability to do it (best example is Jeff Green in the final four loss to OSU, although to be fair Hollis did step up yesterday, and Henry was constrained by foul trouble).
His father's best teams (and even the ones that weren't that good) had moxy and muscle. JTIII's teams are superior in offensive philosophy and skill level, but don't really assert their will -- either the system works or it does not. Consider whether, for example, a guy like Ronnie Highsmith might have made a difference yesterday.
OK, fire away but aim above the equator. Have a nice summer.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 19, 2012 10:25:06 GMT -5
I actually think the reason this team had such a terrific season is because it frequently was able to impose its will defensively, which we haven't done for probably 4-5 years. The shortcomings of the 2011-12 squad were on offense, where we relied for points on two crazy streaky shooters and on the passing ability of a big man who suddenly couldn't stay on the court the last two weeks of the season. Throw in the fact that sometimes we just committed too many turnovers and you have the recipe for a letdown. This team more so than the Freeman/Wright teams was prone to long scoring droughts where the defense had to be absolutely perfect to win.
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 19, 2012 10:53:14 GMT -5
I actually think the reason this team had such a terrific season is because it frequently was able to impose its will defensively, which we haven't done for probably 4-5 years. The shortcomings of the 2011-12 squad were on offense, where we relied for points on two crazy streaky shooters and on the passing ability of a big man who suddenly couldn't stay on the court the last two weeks of the season. Throw in the fact that sometimes we just committed too many turnovers and you have the recipe for a letdown. This team more so than the Freeman/Wright teams was prone to long scoring droughts where the defense had to be absolutely perfect to win. Yup. The offense this year in KenPom's rankings was comparable to 2005/2009 (and also technically 2011, but that seems to be a combo of a much better offense with Wright and a much worse offense without him). Defensively, this team only compares with 2008. The defense was Final Four good and what carried the team, and the offense was bubble-level good. Interestingly, the 2006 team was the opposite--they had a top ten offense and a bubble level defense.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 11:43:42 GMT -5
I'd like to put my 2 cents in, although I am not an expert. I believe that we have a weakness that is going to cause problems again next year. Compared to other upper echalon teams, we are slow as a team. That is why so many teams press us with success.
I couldn't figure out why the NSU front lines seemed to be in such good position for offensive rebounds until I watched a replay on DVR. Those guys were just so quick. According to the stats they had 15 offensive rebounds and it seemed like more.
NSU played great defense. They were well prepared. Their defense on Henry Sims was terrific (and yes those were both charges). Their guards hit 3's well behind the 3 point lines and their front line is superb. It is overall probably better than our front line. That may not be the case in the future as our forwards and centers develop. However, we need more speed in the backcourt.
My amateur take from yesterday--we were beaten by a better team.
Jerry
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Mar 19, 2012 11:56:43 GMT -5
I actually think the reason this team had such a terrific season is because it frequently was able to impose its will defensively, which we haven't done for probably 4-5 years. The shortcomings of the 2011-12 squad were on offense, where we relied for points on two crazy streaky shooters and on the passing ability of a big man who suddenly couldn't stay on the court the last two weeks of the season. Throw in the fact that sometimes we just committed too many turnovers and you have the recipe for a letdown. This team more so than the Freeman/Wright teams was prone to long scoring droughts where the defense had to be absolutely perfect to win. One thing I would like to see next year is some points off our defense. Not a complaint about our defense, which was outstanding (and such a change from the last few years), but I think the next step is causing some havoc with the defense by creating turnovers. Especially as we lose some offensive firepower next year, we'll need some easy buckets. I look forward to it... hm
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Mar 19, 2012 12:43:12 GMT -5
we had four chances to win yesterday in the last two minutes, people miss shots, move on this team is done, we need to look forward to next year. III did a great coaching job this year, no one rthought we would even get to the tourney. can we focus on what needs to happen next year to move to thenext level?
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 19, 2012 14:04:31 GMT -5
we had four chances to win yesterday in the last two minutes, people miss shots, move on this team is done, we need to look forward to next year. III did a great coaching job this year, no one rthought we would even get to the tourney. can we focus on what needs to happen next year to move to thenext level? Need a viable replacement for Henry (hopefully Noel) and one, possibly two, more replacements for Jason and Hollis. Fully expect Otto and Greg to be leaders next year. Hope that Hopkins and Jabril got enough time to take the next step in their development and would like to see Bowen given a shot at some real playing time. Kid is athletic and a little out of control, but whenever he was in the game he showed a real burst of energy. Hope that there is a place for him. The real question marks for me are the development of Nate and Markel. We need Nate to become a complete player willing to take the ball to the basket and not just rebound, and we need Starks to become much more consistent overall. Wild cards--Moses and Tyler. Any contribution is a positive from each.
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