GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Mar 8, 2012 22:14:41 GMT -5
I agree that the BE is down, but man, the P12 may legitimately only get 1 team in the tourney. So, our 12-6 in a division with 9-10 tourney teams seems pretty legit.
|
|
Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
|
Post by Buckets on Mar 8, 2012 23:55:03 GMT -5
Jawanza Poland can't feel too great right now.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 9, 2012 0:57:46 GMT -5
The Big East isn't very good this year. It's always a great league because it'll be competitive--but the talent in the league is down in upperclass and young overall. When you have a debate whether Jae Crowder or Kevin Jones should be POY--that says a lot. It's also why Georgetown has had a surprising year-and I'm thankful for that. I'm very happy with the effort of Hoyas this year--but who is their best win? Marquette? That team got worked by Vandy in Milwaukee and LSU in Baton Rouge and everyone trashes how bad the SEC is this year. Louisville? Alabama? Again-Hoyas get to claim that as a great win but everyone looks down upon SEC? Beating Memphis twice? Tennessee beat UConn. Pitt is awful. Notre Dame was abysmal in non conference. Seton Hall got beat by Northwestern who lost 2 times to an awful Minnesota team. Cuse is only team who has won games-but I think even that is more a product of the league more then them being great. We'll find out next week and matchups matter a lot in tournament play--so maybe the league can make a big run and make this point moot-but I just see a lot of teams who struggle to score (even the Cuse-UConn game-that was some mediocre basketball today with 5 minute stretches of no points being scored), and are offensively challenged. The All Big East team is one of the worst I can remember in the history of the league and I'd not even take that group to win a region in NCAA tournament. How many times could you say that about an All Big East team? Everyone said the same thing last year and who was the National Champ. Besides UK and Cuse (who has a questionable schedule), not many other teams have looked that good. So this idea of well who did we beat? And then discounting it by saying well that team lost to so and so is just a rationalization. We could beat Duke and you would say well they lost to Miami and Temple, not that good, snarfl, snarfl. If we had beat Kansas you would just say well they lost to Iowa State and Davidson, no good. And look at the all Big East team from last year. 5 guards. No big men. 3 guys who are playing over in Europe. (Well 2 because Hansburough quit his Italian team or something). 2011 ALL-BIG EAST FIRST TEAM Kemba Walker, Connecticut, G, Jr., 6-1, 172, Bronx, N.Y. Austin Freeman, Georgetown, G, Sr., 6-3.5, 227, Mitchellville, Md. *Ben Hansbrough, Notre Dame, G, Sr., 6-3, 206, Poplar Bluff, Mo. Ashton Gibbs, Pittsburgh, G, Jr., 6-2, 190, Scotch Plains, N.J. Marshon Brooks, Providence, G-F, Sr., 6-5, 200, Stone Mountain, Ga. Dwight Hardy, St. John’s, G, Sr., 6-2, 195, Bronx, N.Y.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Mar 9, 2012 2:00:10 GMT -5
The Big East isn't very good this year. It's always a great league because it'll be competitive--but the talent in the league is down in upperclass and young overall. When you have a debate whether Jae Crowder or Kevin Jones should be POY--that says a lot. It's also why Georgetown has had a surprising year-and I'm thankful for that. I'm very happy with the effort of Hoyas this year--but who is their best win? Marquette? That team got worked by Vandy in Milwaukee and LSU in Baton Rouge and everyone trashes how bad the SEC is this year. Louisville? Alabama? Again-Hoyas get to claim that as a great win but everyone looks down upon SEC? Beating Memphis twice? Tennessee beat UConn. Pitt is awful. Notre Dame was abysmal in non conference. Seton Hall got beat by Northwestern who lost 2 times to an awful Minnesota team. Cuse is only team who has won games-but I think even that is more a product of the league more then them being great. We'll find out next week and matchups matter a lot in tournament play--so maybe the league can make a big run and make this point moot-but I just see a lot of teams who struggle to score (even the Cuse-UConn game-that was some mediocre basketball today with 5 minute stretches of no points being scored), and are offensively challenged. The All Big East team is one of the worst I can remember in the history of the league and I'd not even take that group to win a region in NCAA tournament. How many times could you say that about an All Big East team? Everyone said the same thing last year and who was the National Champ. Besides UK and Cuse (who has a questionable schedule), not many other teams have looked that good. So this idea of well who did we beat? And then discounting it by saying well that team lost to so and so is just a rationalization. We could beat Duke and you would say well they lost to Miami and Temple, not that good, snarfl, snarfl. If we had beat Kansas you would just say well they lost to Iowa State and Davidson, no good. And look at the all Big East team from last year. 5 guards. No big men. 3 guys who are playing over in Europe. (Well 2 because Hansburough quit his Italian team or something). 2011 ALL-BIG EAST FIRST TEAM Kemba Walker, Connecticut, G, Jr., 6-1, 172, Bronx, N.Y. Austin Freeman, Georgetown, G, Sr., 6-3.5, 227, Mitchellville, Md. *Ben Hansbrough, Notre Dame, G, Sr., 6-3, 206, Poplar Bluff, Mo. Ashton Gibbs, Pittsburgh, G, Jr., 6-2, 190, Scotch Plains, N.J. Marshon Brooks, Providence, G-F, Sr., 6-5, 200, Stone Mountain, Ga. Dwight Hardy, St. John’s, G, Sr., 6-2, 195, Bronx, N.Y. Walker and Brooks alone are better then anyone on this year's 1st team. Last year the league was stronger then others and it wasn't close. Really had established itself in the nonconference as well-by winning a lot of preconference tournaments so you had idea that league was cut above rest. The only people saying it wasn't very good were Charles Barkley and ESPN ACC lovers. Now maybe that was due to fact the overall talent wasn't that good the past couple of years--which explains Butler's success, etc....but I think there are some good teams nationally this year that stand out--and BE just doesn't seem to have the type of teams that match them. It could be that league beat itself up--and nobody can score-but when you watch--is it great defense or just awful offense? I mean there were 2 games today that team who trailed late in game WALKED THE BALL UP THE COURT. If you aren't going to play with urgency when trailing with 7 seconds and 15 seconds (USF) when will you? Beauty is that you don't have to be great to advance--just need to be great that day or lucky or a bit of both. But this year's talent pool in upperclassmen is more role player then great college player.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 9, 2012 9:38:47 GMT -5
It was nearly impossible for the Big East to go anywhere but down after last season. The level of depth and pre-season tournament dominance was unprecedented. Last season will go down as what I feel was the strongest conference, top to bottom, of all-time.
As for this season, yes, the BE is probably the 3rd best conference, still respectable though. The talent level is young and it does not help that Cuse is a team versus having one or two dominant players. There is little star power this season, few difference makers like in year's past.
I was thinking yesterday, the Hoyas of last year probably could have been 2nd in the league this season. Austin and CW would have been unanimous 1st teamers. That is why sometimes I am uneasy about the comparisons to last year. The league was murderous last season compared to this one and going 12-6 this year versus 10-8 last year really may not be an accomplishment. Also, let's be honest put last year's team in the last 5 minutes yesterday, and CW and Austin simply do not lose that game - they make their FTs and do not turn the ball over as much against pressure.
It is an interesting discussion to really "get real" about the quality of this season's Big East.
By the way, I feel strongly the two most talented teams UNC and UK will be playing for the NC. UNC has been coasting, I really think when they turn it on, they will be very tough to beat.
|
|
Madgesdiq
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,434
|
Post by Madgesdiq on Mar 9, 2012 10:21:19 GMT -5
I think this year's All Big East first team beats last years in a 40 minute game.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Mar 9, 2012 11:09:35 GMT -5
Jawanza Poland can't feel too great right now. Why? Because of headlines like this: Did Jawanza Poland cost South Florida a trip to the NCAA Tournament? I still don't see how USF doesn't get in the tourney. BTW, Tony Wroten probably feels worse.
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Mar 9, 2012 11:13:31 GMT -5
Wasnt Poland also the guy that 1000% percent bearhugged and fouled ND in a tie game at the end of regulation? Or was that Gilchrist? They were insanely lucky that wasnt called a foul. It was almost like he didnt know the game was tied.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 9, 2012 11:42:09 GMT -5
I was thinking yesterday, the Hoyas of last year probably could have been 2nd in the league this season. Austin and CW would have been unanimous 1st teamers. That is why sometimes I am uneasy about the comparisons to last year. The league was murderous last season compared to this one and going 12-6 this year versus 10-8 last year really may not be an accomplishment. Also, let's be honest put last year's team in the last 5 minutes yesterday, and CW and Austin simply do not lose that game - they make their FTs and do not turn the ball over as much against pressure. That may be so on free throws, but last year's team basically had fewer scoring options and basically nobody who could score in the post. By the end of the year, Vaughn had become incredibly ineffective and scoring became very difficult for him. Sims was also not playing to the level he played yesterday, certainly. So perhaps it wouldn't have even gone to overtime, and the Hoyas may have lost? There's really no way to know. Keep in mind, our defense was also not nearly as good last year as it was this year. That's the tough thing about making these types of comparisons. There are too many factors and too many unknown factors to know what would have happened with different players.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Mar 9, 2012 12:04:47 GMT -5
I think this year's All Big East first team beats last years in a 40 minute game. Do we get to include COY too-because Stan Heath coaching, I'll take first team to get to 20 pts and that would be last year's team. I would take last year's team-a 40 minute game every day of the week. Those guys had shot makers (Kemba, Brooks, Hardy, and Hansbrough) and played well in tough games. I'd take Clark over Freeman though--because that was Freeman with 30 extra/unnecessary lbs. Also would take this year's BE Rookie Team and I include Otto Porter on it because that was a disgrace he wasn't and I think they'd beat the First Team this year easily.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Mar 9, 2012 12:24:04 GMT -5
I would take last year's team-a 40 minute game every day of the week. Those guys had shot makers (Kemba, Brooks, Hardy, and Hansbrough) and played well in tough games. I'd take Clark over Freeman though--because that was Freeman with 30 extra/unnecessary lbs. Anyone else believe that in 8 years RDF will still be obsessed with (and referring to) Freeman's weight?
|
|
Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,919
|
Post by Filo on Mar 9, 2012 12:47:06 GMT -5
[quote author=rdf board=general thread=25500 post=486868 time=1331312687I would take last year's team-a 40 minute game every day of the week. Those guys had shot makers (Kemba, Brooks, Hardy, and Hansbrough) and played well in tough games. I'd take Clark over Freeman though--because that was Freeman with 30 extra/unnecessary lbs. Anyone else believe that in 8 years RDF will still be obsessed with (and referring to) Freeman's weight?[/quote] Yeah, that and his new-found respect for Roy Williams ;D
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,427
|
Post by hoyarooter on Mar 9, 2012 12:53:19 GMT -5
I think that depends on what Austin looks like in eight years. After all, we are still writing about BIG Mike, aren't we?
|
|
hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,604
|
Post by hoyatables on Mar 9, 2012 14:06:24 GMT -5
[quote author=rdf board=general thread=25500 post=486868 time=1331312687I would take last year's team-a 40 minute game every day of the week. Those guys had shot makers (Kemba, Brooks, Hardy, and Hansbrough) and played well in tough games. I'd take Clark over Freeman though--because that was Freeman with 30 extra/unnecessary lbs. Anyone else believe that in 8 years RDF will still be obsessed with (and referring to) Freeman's weight? Yeah, that and his new-found respect for Roy Williams ;D[/quote] And his creepy dispassion for Doris Burke. (Dave Pasch I get. But Doris grew up a Gtown fan. She deserves some credit for that alone.)
|
|
Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Mar 9, 2012 15:47:52 GMT -5
I agree with all of the comments about the BE being down, but now watch the conference have a great run in the tournament (minus ND of course--we know they're going nowhere in March the second the jerseys come out in October).
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Mar 9, 2012 15:49:44 GMT -5
For those who love the Misinformed One--just wait for "We're live from Verizon Center for Big Monday and here along with Doris Burke and Beth Mowins, it's Pam Ward"--you get what you deserve. ;D
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on Mar 9, 2012 19:22:22 GMT -5
Man, this sucks.
Not only should we be playing in this game, but like a cute little redhead, Cincy is going to tease and flirt with me all night before ultimately dashing all of my hopes and dreams. I can already feel it.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 31,913
|
Post by DanMcQ on Mar 9, 2012 19:42:17 GMT -5
Sadly it won't be the tease from the red headed girl, it's more likely to be the assist from Karl Hess...
...starting with ignoring the 6 seconds 2 SUcks players were in the lane on that Melo bucket with 31 seconds left in the first half.
|
|
FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
|
Post by FLHoya on Mar 9, 2012 19:53:40 GMT -5
Sadly it won't be the tease from the red headed girl, it's more likely to be the assist from Karl Hess... ...starting with ignoring the 6 seconds 2 SUcks players were in the lane on that Melo bucket with 31 seconds left in the first half. Maybe we should put little "KH" stickers on backboards too, if Karl's gonna make this a contest with himself for the most egregious goaltending violations he can ignore. yhoo.it/zrHY7eYes, he "declined" to work in the ACC Tourney in the same way Tim Higgins "voluntarily" pulled himself out of the Big East Tourney last season after the SJU-RU debacle.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,427
|
Post by hoyarooter on Mar 9, 2012 20:06:04 GMT -5
At work and not watching the game, but I do see the Cincy is kicking SU's azz at halftime. This both makes me very happy and cheeses me off. Shoulda been us. Of course, it's extremely unlikely that we would be 8-13 on threes if we were playing.
Come on, Cincy, keep it up. SU will obviously be a one seed no matter what, but there would at least be some level of satisfaction from seeing them not win the BET.
|
|