GUMBA
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Post by GUMBA on Oct 18, 2011 11:59:06 GMT -5
Why not build the facility in Rosslyn just on the other side of the river? It is a short walk/GUTS bus ride from campus and is Metro accessible. Then you don't need to deal with the cranky NIMBY neighbors in Georgetown. Work a deal with Marriott to demolish the Key Bridge Marriott and build a new facility with a 9,000+ seat stadium underneath and a hotel on top. Something similiar to Temple's Liacouras Center. Given the height of buildings in Rossyln it shouldn't be that hard to do both on one location. Has anyone ever thought of this type of arrangement? Seems like a simplier solution than trying to cram an arena on campus that would create traffic problems and tick off the neighbors.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Oct 18, 2011 12:06:53 GMT -5
Why not build the facility in SPACE?! There's tons of room in space and I don't THINK the Georgetown ANC has anything to say about it (though I would double check to be sure).
Joking around Gumba, but that sounds like an expensive undertaking. I don't think land in Rosslyn is exactly cheap.
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GUMBA
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Post by GUMBA on Oct 18, 2011 15:33:55 GMT -5
Any new facility you build is going to be expensive. I would think that the land is going to be the smallest part of the equation. We are talking about Northern Virginia, not Manhattan here. I suggested the Key Bridge Marriott because is it Marriott International’s longest operating hotel, and celebrated its 50th anniversary in 2009. So it is a bit long in the tooth. I don't know how things went down with Marriott operating the hotel on campus. But they might be willing to work on a joint project that couples a new hotel with an arena/practice facility that draws people to stay there. There are other locations in Rosslyn that might also work. Half of the place is covered with townhouses if you look at Google maps satellite imagery. It would seem to make more sense to me to put it in Rosslyn - close to Rt. 1, Rt. 50, Key Bridge and the Metro, than it would to put it on campus where there will be obvious issues with traffic and the neighborhood ANC trying to block the facility. You maybe right that it is not doable but it is my 2 cents. BTW - I happen work for a "SPACE" company so your joke was appreciated.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 18, 2011 16:58:21 GMT -5
The idea of an "on-campus" arena in Rossyln is intriguing because it's close to campus, walkable, and it avoids the Georgetown board nonsense. However, I think the major problem there would be expense. I agree that the Key Bridge Marriott area would be perfect, but I think a hotel/arena project like the one you described would cost immense amounts of money that we don't have.
Something on-campus would still be better, but it is probably unrealistic unless they enlarge McDonough or eventually find the medical school another campus and take over that space.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Oct 18, 2011 19:18:21 GMT -5
GUMBA, I actually really like your idea and think it should be something that I hope the administration looks into further (not holding my breath, but you get my point).
In terms of size, I'm assuming we'd be looking at something similar to Petersen Events Center in Pitt, which cost $141 million in 2011 dollars. Factor in costs related to partnering with Marriott as well as purchasing additional land and I would imagine an overall price tag of somewhere in the neighborhood of $200-300 million.
Potential problems obviously include how receptive the Arlington decision-makers are to such a facility. But like you said, it can't be worse than dealing with the ANC in G'town. I would expect such a joint facility to really drum up commerce in the surrounding Arlington businesses, so I cant imagine all the reaction to such a proposal would be negative.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Oct 19, 2011 2:13:30 GMT -5
I'll say the same thing about an on-campus arena that I always say: without a Metro stop, it is a logistical nightmare.
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Post by LetsGoNova on Oct 19, 2011 7:19:12 GMT -5
It's not as if Villanova's football program has been this magical ticket to long-term stability. Even if we'd upgraded last year--and been accepted by the Big East--we'd still be wondering what conference we'd be in in two years time. UCONN, Cincy and USF are all in that boat, too, and some of them are top 25 teams that actually draw. Low-end FBS football is no protection at all these days.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Oct 19, 2011 8:14:20 GMT -5
I'm happy the University spent its dollars on new academic facilities over the last decade. What he said, combined with what he said: It's not as if Villanova's football program has been this magical ticket to long-term stability. Even if we'd upgraded last year--and been accepted by the Big East--we'd still be wondering what conference we'd be in in two years time. UCONN, Cincy and USF are all in that boat, too, and some of them are top 25 teams that actually draw. Low-end FBS football is no protection at all these days. Everyone beats on the administration for all the questionable decisions (e.g. hospital deal, lost opportunities for campus expansion, etc. etc.). Does anyone really think investing money in the football program to bring it up to FBS level would have been fiscally prudent? Not sure how much 'Nova has invested, but it sure hasn't helped them in this round of BE turmoil. With all of the bemoaning about attendance at basketball, there is no way GU gets sufficient attendance at football games to justify significant investment. It seems to me that we would just be throwing good money after bad. Not saying to drop the program and not invest anything. I just think that with a limited pool of funds, significant investment to upgrade the football program is way down on the list.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 19, 2011 8:51:11 GMT -5
Not saying to drop the program and not invest anything. I just think that with a limited pool of funds, significant investment to upgrade the football program is way down on the list. There ae fair points on both sides but let's kep this "limited pool of funds" argument in some perspective. Georgetown's athletic budget is larger than Temple, Fresno State and 30 other I-A schools. It is limited inasmuch that Georgetown spends significantly more on basketball and it chooses to invest in 29 sports instead of the NCAA minimums that many I-A schools employ.
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Post by sbgorms on Oct 19, 2011 9:10:20 GMT -5
GUMBA, I actually really like your idea and think it should be something that I hope the administration looks into further (not holding my breath, but you get my point). In terms of size, I'm assuming we'd be looking at something similar to Petersen Events Center in Pitt, which cost $141 million in 2011 dollars. Factor in costs related to partnering with Marriott as well as purchasing additional land and I would imagine an overall price tag of somewhere in the neighborhood of $200-300 million. Potential problems obviously include how receptive the Arlington decision-makers are to such a facility. But like you said, it can't be worse than dealing with the ANC in G'town. I would expect such a joint facility to really drum up commerce in the surrounding Arlington businesses, so I cant imagine all the reaction to such a proposal would be negative. I hate to be negative on this, because I've thought for a long time that Rosslyn offers a number of potential benefits to the University for expansion, both for athletics and the university as a whole. However, at this point I'm afraid that ship has sailed. Rosslyn has some incredibly expensive Real Estate (no, not Manhattan or Georgetown, but pretty darn expensive), as it is the closest high density commercial area to the NW DC urban center--buildings can be built to about 33 stories there as opposed to 10-13 downtown. Because of this (and other things) prices have maintained their stability in Rosslyn better than virtually anywhere else, short of prime NW DC locations, and the prices for raw land costs there would shock you. Even with a Marriott partnership, I would expect that the costs Georgetown would have to bear on such a facility in that location would be around $200M without a land purchase...and let's be honest, that's never gonna happen.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 19, 2011 9:23:01 GMT -5
At some point in this generation Georgetown is going to have to bite the bullet and build a campus outside of Washington where land is available and there is some sort of transportation option (Metro, MARC, or VRE) that will tangentially connect it back to the "old" campus.
Will it be the same? No. But at that point this argument can be better framed.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 19, 2011 15:24:22 GMT -5
I agree DFW. My idea (probably unrealistic) has been to find the medical school a better, more updated space so that Georgetown University's undergraduate school could take over that space and significantly enhance our own facilities (academically mostly, but also athletic). I realize that is unlikely to happen as long as the hospital is there, but it's really the only way Georgetown could expand in its current space.
It's too bad Georgetown didn't buy up premium Rosslyn real estate 80 years ago, but hindsight is 20/20.
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McBricks
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Post by McBricks on Oct 19, 2011 16:54:28 GMT -5
It seems that this post has turned into a bit of a facilities thread (season can't start soon enough). So here's my question - - has the idea of building an arena where Yates is been completely shot down? Someone brought it up a couple years back and I thought it made a ton of sense. Put a track and field up on the roof and give that team the facilities they deserve as well.
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Post by HometownHoya on Oct 19, 2011 16:56:08 GMT -5
It seems that this post has turned into a bit of a facilities thread (season can't start soon enough). So here's my question - - has the idea of building an arena where Yates is been completely shot down? Someone brought it up a couple years back and I thought it made a ton of sense. Put a track and field up on the roof and give that team the facilities they deserve as well. I think the main problem with this when it was suggested is what to do with the other 99% of the student population. Are you proposing that the athletically rich students of GU get all of the facilities and the regular old student gets nothing??
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McBricks
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Post by McBricks on Oct 19, 2011 17:00:12 GMT -5
It seems that this post has turned into a bit of a facilities thread (season can't start soon enough). So here's my question - - has the idea of building an arena where Yates is been completely shot down? Someone brought it up a couple years back and I thought it made a ton of sense. Put a track and field up on the roof and give that team the facilities they deserve as well. I think the main problem with this when it was suggested is what to do with the other 99% of the student population. Are you proposing that the athletically rich students of GU get all of the facilities and the regular old student gets nothing?? I was actually thinking various levels/floors with one floor as a gym for all students, one floor could even have a pool; hoops court would be on the main floor with something on the roof. Then there's McDonough which could be used for other sports. I have no idea if this is feasible in any way, shape or form. But I do know that Yates has no historic importance and seems to give us more space to play with.
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Post by HometownHoya on Oct 19, 2011 17:20:47 GMT -5
I actually agree with you McBricks, just couldn't resist that one. I was one of the people who has always thought that Yates could be made into a world class athletic facility for both our scholarship athletes and our general student population. Hopefully our hoops court would take more then a floor b/c we have more then 4k seats in it. We already only take 2 floors for all of the student athletic services in yates, so there is no reason why we can't dig down a little to add another 2-3 floors for a decent basketball arena. The building is falling apart anyway (or at least the roof is) so something will be done with it soon.
The real issue is what do we do with the students while we are renovating yates?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 19, 2011 17:39:30 GMT -5
Actually, the real issue is the neighborhood, still. That, and money.
But while the neighbors have been a royal pain over a practice facility, they will explode over a sporting venue that seats, say 7,000-8,000 people. With 4,000 or so undergrads (more than now but nowhere near 100% attendance) that still leaves a traffic influx and parking issue for 4,000 people 20 times a year and the spazzes that inhabit the neighborhood would never allow it if they could.
And ideally, we'd be closer to 12,000.
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Post by David Brent on Oct 20, 2011 12:05:41 GMT -5
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