The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 19, 2011 18:30:51 GMT -5
I know this has already been mentioned in some of the other threads, but I thought it was a big enough twist to the story to merit its own thread. ESPN reporting that representatives of the Big East and Big 12 have floated the idea of merging the two conferences: espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6993604/big-east-big-12-talking-possible-merger-report-saysThis could either be great news or awful news. A merger could leave Big 12/East as the weakest major conference in football, but still a conference with an auto-bid. It would also be a pretty strong basketball conference. On the flip side, there's no guarantee that the Big 12/East football schools would decide to include the non-football schools in a merger. If that happens, this goes from a disaster for Georgetown to Armageddon for Georgetown.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Sept 19, 2011 18:36:39 GMT -5
This could either be great news or awful news. A merger could leave Big 12/East as the weakest major conference in football, but still a conference with an auto-bid. I thought this was interesting: "If realignment happens as most expect, New BigEast/12 hybrid will have had 11 Top 10 football finishes since 2004 & New ACC will have had 5" twitter.com/#!/howielindsey/statuses/115928313364615168
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 19, 2011 18:44:49 GMT -5
For any conference that might result from uniting the Big East and Big 12, far and away the highest profile sports related activity for the entire conference, is the BET at MSG each March.
That would be the image maker for an otherwise indistinct conference, and it might make fans forgive the mediocre football teams.
I don't see the BE and Big 12 dumping the basketball teams that formed the BE conference in the first place.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Sept 19, 2011 18:52:47 GMT -5
I don't see the BE and Big 12 dumping the basketball teams that formed the BE conference in the first place. Well, they could dump us but (1) we would retain the Big East name and (2) we would keep MSG for the foreseeable future.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Sept 19, 2011 19:03:05 GMT -5
Kansas & Memphis are equal, if not better than Cuse and Pitt for hoops.
It's a mess geographically, but it needs to be done.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Sept 19, 2011 19:48:48 GMT -5
Does anyone have details on what our contract with MSG looks like?
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 19, 2011 20:48:20 GMT -5
All of this is good, if the status quo stays approximately where it is right now. If there are additional major shifts, which is completely possible, its all moot. Does anyone have details on what our contract with MSG looks like? I'vee read that "The Big East" has it locked up another 5-6 years. I am not sure if that's official, just saw somebody post it as fact on another message board (Seton Hall?) so take it with a grain.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Sept 19, 2011 21:02:50 GMT -5
The white knight in all this could be Pitino. Louisville's president and AD are not going to go against him and he is a Big East, MSG, Providence guy who will push to keep the basketball schools.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Sept 19, 2011 21:18:29 GMT -5
All of this is good, if the status quo stays approximately where it is right now. If there are additional major shifts, which is completely possible, its all moot. Does anyone have details on what our contract with MSG looks like? I'vee read that "The Big East" has it locked up another 5-6 years. I am not sure if that's official, just saw somebody post it as fact on another message board (Seton Hall?) so take it with a grain. Believe it is through 2015. But am not 100% sure. A$$ can go to the Barclays Center (and as a Brooklyn native, I'm not even sure I want them there).
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Sept 19, 2011 21:50:32 GMT -5
I have no problem teaming up with the Big 12 and forming a 12 and 20 member conference. Realistically, the only way Gtown continues to compete as a high major in basketball is to associate itself with programs like Kansas, Kstate, UL, etc. Will they leave someday? Probably, but who cares at this point? The Catholic league or whatever bball-only conference will always be there for Gtown, why not try to extend the ability to compete with major programs if possible? I guess I do not understand the rush to the bottom mentality by some just for stability's sake. The last 7 years since the first ACC raid created instability and have not been so bad for Hoyas hoops.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Sept 19, 2011 22:02:08 GMT -5
I agree might be the best short term option to milk the BE-B12 option for as long as we can until a Basketball only conference becomes a last resort.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 19, 2011 22:18:03 GMT -5
Basketball-only should not be a last resort. Get it started now and don't look back. Some television channel will make a bet on the new league, just like ESPN did in 1979, and pay decent money to support non-football schools whose budgets are smaller than the football schools anyway.
It takes leadership and vision to make this happen. Hop on board.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Sept 19, 2011 22:49:01 GMT -5
Basketball only should be the last resort. A Big East Big 12 merger is the only way to survive in a conference with any national meaning. A basketball only con. doesnt get MSG and doesnt get a TV Contract. But a BE/B12 merger gets MSG, a great TV contract, a Bball league as good as the old BE and ACC (better than ACC once all the cults of personality leave- K, Beoheim, Calhoun, Williams), and the third best league FOR Football.
Now its important to make the distinction between "the best football conference" (i.e. the one with most talent) and "the best conference for football" (i.e. the one best set up to succeed in football. All that matters in big time football is winning one of the major bowls or the championship. A league with a few (two or three) top level teams (TCU, Missouri, WVU), a few middle level teams (L'ville, Cincy, USF) and a few terrible ones (Memphis, K St., Baylor, Iowa St., Kansas) (Im assuming here that UConn and Rutgers leave), is best set up to produce teams that lose zero or one games, but beats enough quality opponents to make a top bowl or the championship. I wont go through it again as i did in a different thread, but the B10 was a terrible conference for producing national champions because it was too good from top to bottom.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Sept 19, 2011 22:53:36 GMT -5
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Post by Lurking Dog on Sept 19, 2011 22:54:01 GMT -5
If a merger happens, and it's a new conference (i.e. Big East is dead), the tournament will not be at MSG every year. Absolutely, positively, no way.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Sept 19, 2011 22:54:42 GMT -5
Basketball only should be the last resort. A Big East Big 12 merger is the only way to survive in a conference with any national meaning. A basketball only con. doesnt get MSG and doesnt get a TV Contract. But a BE/B12 merger gets MSG, a great TV contract, a Bball league as good as the old BE and ACC (better than ACC once all the cults of personality leave- K, Beoheim, Calhoun, Williams), and the third best league FOR Football. Now its important to make the distinction between "the best football conference" (i.e. the one with most talent) and "the best conference for football" (i.e. the one best set up to succeed in football. All that matters in big time football is winning one of the major bowls or the championship. A league with a few (two or three) top level teams (TCU, Missouri, WVU), a few middle level teams (L'ville, Cincy, USF) and a few terrible ones (Memphis, K St., Baylor, Iowa St., Kansas) (Im assuming here that UConn and Rutgers leave), is best set up to produce teams that lose zero or one games, but beats enough quality opponents to make a top bowl or the championship. I wont go through it again as i did in a different thread, but the B10 was a terrible conference for producing national champions because it was too good from top to bottom. Agree with everything you have here. I'm not very supportive of a basketball-only conference with the Providences, St. John's and Seton Halls of the world. If we're going to do that, might as well join the Patriot League if the Ivy won't take us (which they won't).
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miamihoya
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Post by miamihoya on Sept 20, 2011 3:38:06 GMT -5
espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6993604/big-east-big-12-talking-possible-merger-sources-sayIt seems everyone is thinking of this backwards. The plan would be for the Big 12 to absorb the remaining Big East football schools, not the other way around. And nothing in there suggests they have any intention of bringing the basketball-only schools with them. When one thinks about this, Big 12 absorbing Big East makes more sense. The remaining football schools -- Louisville, Cincy, USF, TCU and possibly WVU -- would always have been at least as equally a good fit in the Big 12 than in the Big East (in geographic terms). If this indeed occurs, then what remains? Do the eight Catholic schools get to keep the Big East name, its TV/MSG rights, and the $5 mill exit fees? Or does the fact that over 50% of the league members have chosen to leave (if one includes TCU) make this all void? Continuing to hope for the survival of the Big East is just not a viable strategy. We should either be looking to join a BCS conference as a junior member or resign ourselves to a future as a mid-major program.
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Post by daymondmyles on Sept 20, 2011 6:24:01 GMT -5
Huh? The big 12 is much younger and there would be far less schools from the big 12 in the merger than big east schools so I think it's natural for the big east to be the acquirer. And why would the big 12 even want to merge with a big east that didn't feature the Basketball schools. If they did that, they would just be left with a terrible football conference and a nearly as terrible basketball conference. Would make zero sense.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Sept 20, 2011 6:51:00 GMT -5
Agree with Daymond. Why would you give up on getting the NYC market? Only adds revenue, I would think.
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Post by fsohoya on Sept 20, 2011 6:56:03 GMT -5
Basketball only should be the last resort. A Big East Big 12 merger is the only way to survive in a conference with any national meaning. A basketball only con. doesnt get MSG and doesnt get a TV Contract. But a BE/B12 merger gets MSG, a great TV contract, a Bball league as good as the old BE and ACC (better than ACC once all the cults of personality leave- K, Beoheim, Calhoun, Williams), and the third best league FOR Football. Now its important to make the distinction between "the best football conference" (i.e. the one with most talent) and "the best conference for football" (i.e. the one best set up to succeed in football. All that matters in big time football is winning one of the major bowls or the championship. A league with a few (two or three) top level teams (TCU, Missouri, WVU), a few middle level teams (L'ville, Cincy, USF) and a few terrible ones (Memphis, K St., Baylor, Iowa St., Kansas) (Im assuming here that UConn and Rutgers leave), is best set up to produce teams that lose zero or one games, but beats enough quality opponents to make a top bowl or the championship. I wont go through it again as i did in a different thread, but the B10 was a terrible conference for producing national champions because it was too good from top to bottom. Agree with everything you have here. I'm not very supportive of a basketball-only conference with the Providences, St. John's and Seton Halls of the world. If we're going to do that, might as well join the Patriot League if the Ivy won't take us (which they won't). Being in a league, if it could be assembled, with the likes of Xavier, Nova, ND, St. John's, Marquette, and maybe Butler is nowhere near the same as being in the Patriot League. With the proliferation of cable channels and all sorts of other viewing options, that is a hoops league that would get coverage, and would put teams in the Tournament. And I could imagine it even getting good players who don't want to be second-bananas at schools that clearly put football first. Will it be as good as the BE? No, but nothing was as good as BE hoops. And ACC basketball won't be as good as BE hoops going forward when Calhoun, Boeheim, and Coach K retire, and all the Carolina schools are asking why the hell they're freezing their butts off in far-flung, foul, Syracuse, Pitt, and Chestnut Hill. And let's keep in mind that without big-time football programs to pay for, hoops-first schools don't need as much television money for their athletic programs to be profitable. Because yes, some 1-A football programs make money, but many more seem to lose it.
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