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Post by daytonahoya31 on Sept 8, 2011 11:05:26 GMT -5
I agree with Ranch on Jason. I think his ceiling is that of a complementray piece to the puzzle. He's a third scorer on a great team.
I disagree on Hollis. I think he's an all-big east talent waiting to happen. He's the most prototypical small forward in the conference, even more so than Kris Joseph because he can actually shoot it. And when he gets to the bucket, he's looking to dunk on people.
I'm shocked that people aren't accounting for Otto here. Yes, he's a freshman. But he's shown time and again that he has tools to be really special. He's 6-9, can handle, can shoot, is a great help defender, blocks shots, is athletic and can play three positions. He will be the closest thing we've had to Jeff Green, and I can see him having a Jeff Green-like freshman year.
I'm shocked that people aren't accounting for the intangibles that Jabril brings. Simply put, he has a toughness we haven't had since Jessie Sapp. And we all know how much that helped us. Difference between Jabril and Jessie? Jabril is much more naturally gifted. 6-5, athletic, plays defense, and goes to the basket looking to hammer on people.
I'm surprised that people don't account for the freshman-sophomore jump. Nate and Markel proved last year that they have talent. Both have the ability to make improvements.
I'm surprised that people don't look at depth. Last year we bring Jerrelle off the bench. This time around? It's Mikael. And Tyler Adams. And Greg Whittington.
This is just a better roster. More athletic. Much longer. And it has a good mix. It isn't all newbies trying to carry a team. It's a team with a steady senior, a ready-to-breakout junior looking to play very well. A contract year for Hollis, if you may. It's a team with a center that's been here four years. None of the starters are void of experience. And to boot, it has a young, hungry group of freshmen that I would put up against anyone in the conference....Syracuse and Uconn included
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 8, 2011 11:10:22 GMT -5
Agree with you Daytona. And let me add, if Henry Sims can give us a senior year like Ya Ya Dia did, this team will be much better than expected.
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KennaHoya
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Post by KennaHoya on Sept 8, 2011 11:47:11 GMT -5
I have thrown my hat into the optimistic ring before and will do so again. I can see why folks would be pessimistic if they look at the year as one where Jason will need to replace Chris Wright and do what he did (or Markel would have to do that), and Hollis would have to become the scorer that Austin proved to be in many games, especially before he got hurt. If you think that Markel and Jason and Hollis (and Nate and Henry) have to play 32 plus minutes in key games and carry the load, it does not look much different than last year - and unproven abilities to do that as well.
But this team hopefully will expect to play much differently. Taking what Daytona notes, this team ought to expect much better balanced scoring. Jason and Hollis will need to step up a bit, but they should feel nowhere near the burden that I think Chris Wright and Austin Freeman felt. There are more guys here who can handle the ball (OK - not a handle that can dominate, but this team will be better sharing the ball than having one or two guys bringing the ball up, handling it outside, and penetrating). From what I've seen, the freshmen and Aaron/Markel will add scoring options when they are in there if players don't force things. I think the rebounding will be better given Nate, Henry and alll the tall freshmen (Otto and Greg are long and will rebound a bit - but not because they are strong or power players; do not expect that from them).
How this team plays defense - and particularly help defense - will go a long way in deciding whether they are a young team that has to be reckoned with, but perhaps not a threat for the NCAAs much less its later rounds, or whether they will surprise everyone and be a real threat for a high finish in the Big East. While I am more bullish on them than most, I understand that they are unproven - in an always brutal conference where (this year) many teams, outside 3 or 4, have a lot of uncertain potential.
Long way of saying that given agreement with most of what Daytona says - expect them to play very differently than the past few years, and look to different strengths.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 8, 2011 11:52:38 GMT -5
agree with above three posters NUF SAID GO HOYAS
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 8, 2011 19:47:53 GMT -5
Hollis is clearly the weakest link in the argument that all 5 Hoya starters are either unproven or below average. I think you can state accurately that he has never started at the SF position and asked to carry the offensive load. He's probably a bit better then I let on - and yes the benching was not due to poor performance.
I would not expect significant improvement in Clark and Sims. I think we see a jump forward in Nate and Hollis. I have no idea what to expect with Markel. Just no meaningful BE data yet. My guess is that he will be very up and down in his first year shouldering PG duties.
My reaction to Daytona's comment that Jason is the third scorer on a great team was, well, he was the third scorer on a okay team last year. Maybe he is a bench player on a great team.
And the Otto stuff is a bit of pie in the sky. Where exactly has Otto proven time and again that he has the tools to be really special? That's probably one of the most disingenuous comments I have read on the board since I posted my Hollis getting benched comment.
Joking aside, I think Markel/Jabril are the key. Without adequate PG play, we are dead because I don't have confidence that Jason and Hollis can create on offense and our starters are not great defensively.
I'd stick with my initial prediction of 7-9 in the league, but we will be playing 18 conference games.
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Post by bigelephant on Sept 8, 2011 20:09:17 GMT -5
I don't get why people think so little of Clark. I like him and I'm glad that he is a starter. He is all about business on the court and brings many valuable traits to the game. III obviously feels somewhat similar. HENRY - hope springs eternal. He's not Pat Ewing or PE jr but I'm counting on him to be a player this year. Nate is one tough cookie and is a full year ahead of the frosh as far as College BB goes. He just needs to develop a more aggressive approach to scoring besides garbage dunks, which are fine and welcome. But he needs to add some consistant stuff to his offensive repetoire. It's not enough to take 3 shots a game. He can dribble, facilitate,pass etc and he's 6'8 and a big body. As a matter of fact I don't remember him losing the ball on the dribble in any of the games I saw last year - which is to say something for such a big guy. That dribble with the left hand from the elbow toward the basket resulting in a nice pass to Jason in the corner who drove and dumped it back off to Nate for the 3 pts dunk in China makes me want more - I know the opposition was not great but the sequence was beautiful to behold. A bit of a variation of the PO.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 8, 2011 20:18:10 GMT -5
ranch """" otto WAS BATTLE TESTED IN BEIJING he can outwright play man he did show alot vs some pro chinese teams even didnt back down but scored and defended vs the bayi rocket thugs yup so he has shown lots not JUST in keener but in china yup we will see and jabril no wall flower either man two MEN ready to ball they WILL contribute others might also but otto and jabril are READY TO RUMBLE AND BALL we will seee maybe im just idealistic but what ive SEEN ON THE COURT SO FAR make sme thinks THEY are ready OG HOYAS we will see its almost februrary youll everyone have a safe weekend water and credibile threats ALL HOYAS AND EVERYONE BE SAFE go hoyas
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 8, 2011 20:19:25 GMT -5
if otto is just pie in the sky? ? then take ME with him on that ride up high HES READY and so am i to see him ball hes the REAL DEAL go hoyas
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 8, 2011 20:19:52 GMT -5
apple or pumpkin either one fine with me go hoyas
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 8, 2011 20:33:15 GMT -5
Big Elephant - as always very astute analysis. You have always been a big fan of Nate...the big fella will play a major role for the Hoyas this year!
Just to clarify - I like a lot of what Clark brings to the game and am very glad he is a Hoya - high intensity, great motor, never fatigues, solid shooter from deep, solid FTs. But as a shooting guard his handle can be a little suspect, especially in traffic, and he has not yet shown the ability to create his own shot consistently (other than the step back 3 from 22 feet). When the JTIII offense is humming, the creating bit is not as important. When the offense is sputtering and the shot clock is running down, it is helpful to have a couple guys who can create. I'm not sure he'll be that player for the Hoyas.
My comment about him not starting on a great team was not intended to bash Clark. He's a fine player and been a great representative of Georgetown. But I don't think he starts on our great teams from 1979-80, 1981-82, 1983-85, 1986-87, 1988-89, 1991-92, 1995-96. Of course those teams featured some awesome shooting guards in Sleepy, Wingate, Smitty, and Iverson/Page.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 8, 2011 20:39:44 GMT -5
Love it, Lic. Otto is from Mississippi, so maybe it's a peach cobbler...make it rain those pies in the peach basket!!!
I believe Otto can help this year. Was just trying to be funny with Daytona. His "time and again" bit was worthy of ribbing since Otto has not played a single game in the Big East yet.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Sept 8, 2011 21:23:43 GMT -5
Love it, Lic. Otto is from Mississippi, so maybe it's a peach cobbler...make it rain those pies in the peach basket!!! I believe Otto can help this year. Was just trying to be funny with Daytona. His "time and again" bit was worthy of ribbing since Otto has not played a single game in the Big East yet. Otto is most definitely NOT from Mississippi. Your opinion is further discounted.
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KennaHoya
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Post by KennaHoya on Sept 8, 2011 22:14:10 GMT -5
Missouri, Mississippi - who can quibble when 7 + 9 = 18? I just hope the "Show Me" state kid does exactly that for those thinking Hoyas are undermanned in Big East.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 9, 2011 6:00:40 GMT -5
yupp go otto go jabril they will surprse as will some of our other newbies underrate and OVERPERFORM fine with me WE WILL SEE go hoyas
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Sept 9, 2011 7:25:40 GMT -5
And since when is Mississippi known for its peaches?!?
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McBricks
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Post by McBricks on Sept 9, 2011 17:33:41 GMT -5
I'm going with 18-11. I bet we'll win 2 games we never thought we'd win and lose 3-4 stinkers we'd never dream we'd lose (here we come S. Florida...).
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 10, 2011 7:24:54 GMT -5
OUCH - I'm struggling this week. Missouri has very fine peaches. Make it rain dem peaches.
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Post by bigelephant on Sept 11, 2011 3:21:43 GMT -5
OUCH - I'm struggling this week. Missouri has very fine peaches. Make it rain dem peaches. All of the East (and other parts) were struggling this week. You get a pass.
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Sept 13, 2011 17:05:16 GMT -5
Don't know about record, but I think we find our way into the tournament as an 8 or 9 seed maybe 10
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Sept 15, 2011 20:36:06 GMT -5
coach has 6 freshmen to bring along and Henry. I think the team will be good in February, but much better next year. It's a rebuilding year, about 18 wins.
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