Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Highsmith on Aug 16, 2011 14:45:13 GMT -5
Sounds pretty much like a done deal to me as well. If so, welcome Max!
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 16, 2011 16:01:06 GMT -5
I wonder if whatever was behind his "voluntary leave of absence" from Harvard could be the basis for his being able to play immediately, a la JV. The reason for his leave of absence was because that's the only way to take a year off at Harvard. You can only play/be in school for 8 semesters at Harvard, so if you need to redshirt a year, you have to be out of school.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 16, 2011 17:42:05 GMT -5
Poll: walk-on or scholarship? I don't think this is even a choice. He will count against GU's scholarship limit if he comes here. There's no special dispensation for Harvard or Ivy League players.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Aug 16, 2011 18:57:37 GMT -5
I just did that Larry look...
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on Aug 16, 2011 19:05:03 GMT -5
Aren't there already enough "guard" types on the roster that won't be getting enough minutes for their liking this season?
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by swhoya on Aug 16, 2011 19:05:41 GMT -5
Poll: walk-on or scholarship? I don't think this is even a choice. He will count against GU's scholarship limit if he comes here. There's no special dispensation for Harvard or Ivy League players. Explain? He couldn't walk on?
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 16, 2011 19:08:22 GMT -5
Sounds like the kid plays with fire, especially on defense. I'm all for competition, and if you can play good defense, you can play right away in my opinion. Maybe the kid won't even see more than 2 minutes on the floor, but I am not displeased one bit that he is a Hoya. i seem to recall another defensive minded guard who was told he would never start at g'town who ended up winning BE POY! If the kid can play this year...i'm all for it.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 16, 2011 19:24:51 GMT -5
I don't think this is even a choice. He will count against GU's scholarship limit if he comes here. There's no special dispensation for Harvard or Ivy League players. Explain? He couldn't walk on? He absolutely could walk on. KC is confused.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 17, 2011 8:36:51 GMT -5
Explain? He couldn't walk on? He absolutely could walk on. KC is confused. No, I'm not confused. We have this same discussion every year, going all the way back to people wanting PE Sr. to pay for PE Jr. to attend Georgetown so we wouldn't have to use a scholarship. Kenyi will count against our scholarship limit whether we actually give him a scholarship or not. Two points on walk-ons: 1. A recruited player becomes an NCAA counter regardless of whether scholarship money is offered. 2. Any Division I player beyond a freshman must have a year in residency before playing sports.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Aug 17, 2011 10:29:23 GMT -5
He absolutely could walk on. KC is confused. No, I'm not confused. We have this same discussion every year, going all the way back to people wanting PE Sr. to pay for PE Jr. to attend Georgetown so we wouldn't have to use a scholarship. Kenyi will count against our scholarship limit whether we actually give him a scholarship or not. Two points on walk-ons: 1. A recruited player becomes an NCAA counter regardless of whether scholarship money is offered. 2. Any Division I player beyond a freshman must have a year in residency before playing sports. Not to dig too far into the weeds, but what counts as a recruited player?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 17, 2011 12:30:05 GMT -5
He absolutely could walk on. KC is confused. No, I'm not confused. We have this same discussion every year, going all the way back to people wanting PE Sr. to pay for PE Jr. to attend Georgetown so we wouldn't have to use a scholarship. Kenyi will count against our scholarship limit whether we actually give him a scholarship or not. Two points on walk-ons: 1. A recruited player becomes an NCAA counter regardless of whether scholarship money is offered. 2. Any Division I player beyond a freshman must have a year in residency before playing sports. I'm sorry but that's just not true. And PE Sr. could have paid for PE Jr. to attend without him counting.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 17, 2011 12:41:12 GMT -5
No, I'm not confused. We have this same discussion every year, going all the way back to people wanting PE Sr. to pay for PE Jr. to attend Georgetown so we wouldn't have to use a scholarship. Kenyi will count against our scholarship limit whether we actually give him a scholarship or not. I'm sorry but that's just not true. And PE Sr. could have paid for PE Jr. to attend without him counting. Ok, now I know you're being deliberately obtuse. Please go away.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 17, 2011 12:42:35 GMT -5
I would like to know too, sw. How does the NCAA define that elusive "recruited player"?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 17, 2011 12:53:54 GMT -5
I'm sorry but that's just not true. And PE Sr. could have paid for PE Jr. to attend without him counting. Let's review the NCAA rules on counters: 15.5.1 Counters. A student-athlete shall be a counter and included in the maximum awards limitations set forth in this bylaw under the following conditions:
(a) Athletics Aid. A student-athlete who receives financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability shall become a counter for the year during which the student-athlete receives the financial aid...
In football or basketball, a student-athlete who was recruited by the awarding institution and who receives institutional financial aid (as set forth in Bylaw 15.02.4.1) granted without regard in any degree to athletics ability does not have to be counted until the student-athlete engages in varsity intercollegiate competition.
15.02.4.1 Institutional Financial Aid. The following sources of financial aid are considered to be institutional financial aid: (a) All funds administered by the institution, which include but are not limited to the following: (1) Scholarships; (2) Grants; (3) Tuition waivers; (4) Employee dependent tuition benefits, unless the parent or the legal guardian of a student-athlete has been employed as a full-time faculty/staff member for a minimum of five years; and (5) Loans. What is a recruited student athlete? 15.02.8 Recruited Student-Athlete. For purposes of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a studentathlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (a) Was provided an official visit to the institution’s campus; (b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution’s coaching staff (including a coach’s arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s parents, relatives or legal guardians); or (c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.In short: 1. If you received financial aid from GU and you play basketball, you're a counter. 2. If you were not recruited to attend GU and your aid does not come from atheltics, you are not a counter. In the scenario of Ewing Sr. paying Ewing Jr's tuition, an official visit and/or a NLI would have made him a counter regardless.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 17, 2011 13:09:14 GMT -5
Thanks DFW -- and others who have provided relevant info.
However, we still have Max quoted that he can't say more right now. So it sounds to me as though GU could be petitioning the NCAA about some of the questions raised in this thread, and/or possibly what kind of financial aide might be available from non-athletic dept GU sources.
None of us thought Julian Vaughan could be eligible his first year, but he was. We also thought Anthony Perry WOULD be eligible his first year, but he wasn't. My point? Simply that no matter how well-informed we are, or how convinced we might be, the NCAA is sufficiently unpredictable that I am going to hold off on any conclusions until we hear something official from GU. (Knowing how GU works, that might not occur until half time of Game 1!)
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Aug 17, 2011 13:38:56 GMT -5
Thanks DFW -- and others who have provided relevant info. However, we still have Max quoted that he can't say more right now. So it sounds to me as though GU could be petitioning the NCAA about some of the questions raised in this thread, and/or possibly what kind of financial aide might be available from non-athletic dept GU sources. None of us thought Julian Vaughan could be eligible his first year, but he was. We also thought Anthony Perry WOULD be eligible his first year, but he wasn't. My point? Simply that no matter how well-informed we are, or how convinced we might be, the NCAA is sufficiently unpredictable that I am going to hold off on any conclusions until we hear something official from GU. (Knowing how GU works, that might not occur until half time of Game 1!) Agreed. There is something going on here that is more than just a "normal" transfer.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Aug 17, 2011 17:06:18 GMT -5
When does school start?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 17, 2011 17:23:14 GMT -5
I'm sorry but that's just not true. And PE Sr. could have paid for PE Jr. to attend without him counting. Let's review the NCAA rules on counters: 15.5.1 Counters. A student-athlete shall be a counter and included in the maximum awards limitations set forth in this bylaw under the following conditions:
(a) Athletics Aid. A student-athlete who receives financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability shall become a counter for the year during which the student-athlete receives the financial aid...
In football or basketball, a student-athlete who was recruited by the awarding institution and who receives institutional financial aid (as set forth in Bylaw 15.02.4.1) granted without regard in any degree to athletics ability does not have to be counted until the student-athlete engages in varsity intercollegiate competition.
15.02.4.1 Institutional Financial Aid. The following sources of financial aid are considered to be institutional financial aid: (a) All funds administered by the institution, which include but are not limited to the following: (1) Scholarships; (2) Grants; (3) Tuition waivers; (4) Employee dependent tuition benefits, unless the parent or the legal guardian of a student-athlete has been employed as a full-time faculty/staff member for a minimum of five years; and (5) Loans. What is a recruited student athlete? 15.02.8 Recruited Student-Athlete. For purposes of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a studentathlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (a) Was provided an official visit to the institution’s campus; (b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution’s coaching staff (including a coach’s arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s parents, relatives or legal guardians); or (c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.In short: 1. If you received financial aid from GU and you play basketball, you're a counter. 2. If you were not recruited to attend GU and your aid does not come from atheltics, you are not a counter. In the scenario of Ewing Sr. paying Ewing Jr's tuition, an official visit and/or a NLI would have made him a counter regardless. Yes, I know the letter of the rule and it's clear that KC does not. There are many ways to get around the issue of who is a "counter" and who isn't. Tommy Tuberville created major portions of his classes under probation at Ole Miss this way, and Lane Kiffen is doing the same with kids who come from wealthy families to deal with the scholarship restrictions at USC.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 17, 2011 17:59:14 GMT -5
Let's review the NCAA rules on counters: 15.5.1 Counters. A student-athlete shall be a counter and included in the maximum awards limitations set forth in this bylaw under the following conditions:
(a) Athletics Aid. A student-athlete who receives financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability shall become a counter for the year during which the student-athlete receives the financial aid...
In football or basketball, a student-athlete who was recruited by the awarding institution and who receives institutional financial aid (as set forth in Bylaw 15.02.4.1) granted without regard in any degree to athletics ability does not have to be counted until the student-athlete engages in varsity intercollegiate competition.
15.02.4.1 Institutional Financial Aid. The following sources of financial aid are considered to be institutional financial aid: (a) All funds administered by the institution, which include but are not limited to the following: (1) Scholarships; (2) Grants; (3) Tuition waivers; (4) Employee dependent tuition benefits, unless the parent or the legal guardian of a student-athlete has been employed as a full-time faculty/staff member for a minimum of five years; and (5) Loans. What is a recruited student athlete? 15.02.8 Recruited Student-Athlete. For purposes of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a studentathlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (a) Was provided an official visit to the institution’s campus; (b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution’s coaching staff (including a coach’s arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s parents, relatives or legal guardians); or (c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.In short: 1. If you received financial aid from GU and you play basketball, you're a counter. 2. If you were not recruited to attend GU and your aid does not come from atheltics, you are not a counter. In the scenario of Ewing Sr. paying Ewing Jr's tuition, an official visit and/or a NLI would have made him a counter regardless. Yes, I know the letter of the rule and it's clear that KC does not. There are many ways to get around the issue of who is a "counter" and who isn't. Tommy Tuberville created major portions of his classes under probation at Ole Miss this way, and Lane Kiffen is doing the same with kids who come from wealthy families to deal with the scholarship restrictions at USC. 1. Yes, let's emulate Lane Kiffin and USC and skirt the rules. Do you have a ponzi scheme you want us to invest in while you're on a roll? 2. Do you really think JT3 or GU is going to play games to "get around the issue?"
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 17, 2011 18:25:44 GMT -5
Yes, I know the letter of the rule and it's clear that KC does not. There are many ways to get around the issue of who is a "counter" and who isn't. Tommy Tuberville created major portions of his classes under probation at Ole Miss this way, and Lane Kiffen is doing the same with kids who come from wealthy families to deal with the scholarship restrictions at USC. 1. Yes, let's emulate Lane Kiffin and USC and skirt the rules. Do you have a ponzi scheme you want us to invest in while you're on a roll? 2. Do you really think JT3 or GU is going to play games to "get around the issue?" Yes, because doing something that is not against any NCAA regulations for the betterment of your program is equivalent to a Ponzi scheme...I'll give it to you, you troll hard.
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