Debt Ceiling Crisis

[kchoya]

With the impending doom of August 2 rapidly approaching, and the certain destruction of the republic due to the failure to not yet have solved this unprecedented crisis, I figured there would be non-stop chatter on this board about the issue.

What gives? Everyone too caught up in the dramatic WNBA season? *


* I only know the WNBA season in taking place because that was the ONLY scoreboard at the top of ESPN.com today.

[Boz]

No, but A Dance With Dragons comes out tomorrow.

Not really sure how the gub'ment can compete with that.


I hear Jay-Zed has some opinions on the subject though.

[TBird41]

Good point. Now that you mention it, it's kind of odd that Jersey hasn't made any comments tying Paul Ryan's $350 wine to the debt ceiling and the invasion of Iraq in response to a post made by EasyEd about how Sarah Palin is a media super star, which leads Strummer onto a rant about how crazy conservatives are to a moderate like himself, only to have Boz respond by making some kind of reference even geekier then the last one he used to broker a peace b/w himself and Bando (as we can see, this one obviously happened).

;D

[The Stig]

From a few days ago, but still sums up my feelings pretty well: www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05brooks.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[EasyEd]

The problem with any deal is the tax changes proposed get written into the tax code and must be enforced while most cuts being proposed are merely intentions to cut unless it is tied to something which can be enforced. Like changes to the age for Medicare or Social Security which can also be enforced. Cuts like the $500B cuts in Social Security as part of Obamacare are merely an intention which so far have been ignored. The Republicans have seen tax+spending cuts deals in the past turn into only tax increases. See George H.W. Bush's results when he agreed to raise taxes.

A second problem is the President has proposed closing some tax loopholes but has been very selective in the ones he chooses to close, careful not to touch his base.

A third problem is the very large number of Republican congressmen/women who have taken a pledge not to raise taxes. Do they now go back on their read my lips moments?

For some time I have said we must have deep cuts and some tax increases to get a handle on the debt but the tax portion must be ones that are real, not merely intentions.

[Boz]

Jul 11, 2011 21:23:48 GMT -5 TBird41 said:

Good point. Now that you mention it, it's kind of odd that Jersey hasn't made any comments tying Paul Ryan's $350 wine to the debt ceiling and the invasion of Iraq in response to a post made by EasyEd about how Sarah Palin is a media super star, which leads Strummer onto a rant about how crazy conservatives are to a moderate like himself, only to have Boz respond by making some kind of reference even geekier then the last one he used to broker a peace b/w himself and Bando (as we can see, this one obviously happened).

;D

Hey, man!

Garich i dhôl goll o Orch!! Rhachon le!

And that's all I have to say to you.

[vcjack]

Jul 12, 2011 8:41:09 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

A third problem is the very large number of Republican congressmen/women who have taken a pledge not to raise taxes. Do they now go back on their read my lips moments?

Grover Nordquist must be flexing his muscles in front of a mirror a la Patrick Bateman every night.

Also, did he ever explain how his no tax crusade also includes protecting ethanol subsidies?

[rosslynhoya]

Jul 12, 2011 8:58:23 GMT -5 Boz said:

Jul 11, 2011 21:23:48 GMT -5 TBird41 said:

Good point. Now that you mention it, it's kind of odd that Jersey hasn't made any comments tying Paul Ryan's $350 wine to the debt ceiling and the invasion of Iraq in response to a post made by EasyEd about how Sarah Palin is a media super star, which leads Strummer onto a rant about how crazy conservatives are to a moderate like himself, only to have Boz respond by making some kind of reference even geekier then the last one he used to broker a peace b/w himself and Bando (as we can see, this one obviously happened).

;D

Hey, man!

Garich i dhôl goll o Orch!! Rhachon le!

And that's all I have to say to you.

Hria cuilë! Seriously....

[TBird41]

Jul 12, 2011 9:21:26 GMT -5 vcjack said:

Jul 12, 2011 8:41:09 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

A third problem is the very large number of Republican congressmen/women who have taken a pledge not to raise taxes. Do they now go back on their read my lips moments?

Grover Nordquist must be flexing his muscles in front of a mirror a la Patrick Bateman every night.

Also, did he ever explain how his no tax crusade also includes protecting ethanol subsidies?

If you're going to ask them to compromise on one of their core principles and core campaign promise, don't you have to offer more then illusory spending cuts? Remember, a lot of the Republicans dont want to raise the debt limit so spending, which they ran against can happen--they want to cut spending to get under it, so even asking them to support an increase is asking them to compromise. What's Obama actually offering them that's worth those compromises? Defense cuts, budget tricks and promises of cuts that won't get implemented

[vcjack]

Jul 12, 2011 11:00:17 GMT -5 TBird41 said:

Jul 12, 2011 9:21:26 GMT -5 vcjack said:

Grover Nordquist must be flexing his muscles in front of a mirror a la Patrick Bateman every night.

Also, did he ever explain how his no tax crusade also includes protecting ethanol subsidies?

If you're going to ask them to compromise on one of their core principles and core campaign promise, don't you have to offer more then illusory spending cuts? Remember, a lot of the Republicans dont want to raise the debt limit so spending, which they ran against can happen--they want to cut spending to get under it, so even asking them to support an increase is asking them to compromise. What's Obama actually offering them that's worth those compromises? Defense cuts, budget tricks and promises of cuts that won't get implemented

They should do whatever they feel like works the best for the country, their constituents, and themselves. I'd rather they not make the bond market go crazy, but I'm just some guy with a computer. The only question I asked is how does reducing/eliminating ethanol subsidies = a tax increase in the tax reform mindset?

[TC]

Mitch McConnell, Mr. Irrelevant in this whole discussion, now wants to give Obama the power to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling a bunch of times, with the stipulation that Republicans can point fingers and decry all this borrowing that they would give him the power to unilaterally carry out.

Let's remember that his goal isn't to make government smaller or to reign in deficits or debt, it is to try to make Obama a one term president.

Oh and I did I mention there would be 0 spending cuts involved? None.

#heiswhowethoughthewas

[Boz]

Jul 12, 2011 14:12:24 GMT -5 TC said:

Mitch McConnell, Mr. Irrelevant in this whole discussion, now wants to give Obama the power to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling a bunch of times, with the stipulation that Republicans can point fingers and decry all this borrowing that they would give him the power to unilaterally carry out.

Let's remember that his goal isn't to make government smaller or to reign in deficits or debt, it is to try to make Obama a one term president.

Oh and I did I mention there would be 0 spending cuts involved? None.

#heiswhowethoughthewas

Per Erickson at RedState:

"Consider sending McConnell a weasel as testament to his treachery."

No, not a real one, of course. This one.

That was kind of funny.

[The Stig]

Regardless of the specifics of the deal, I have to commend Obama for the mentality of his offer. Hopefully it'll be a sign of things to come.

For too long in DC, the tradition has been this: GOP says "Let's cut spending on X." Dems say "Don't cut spending on X, cut spending on Y instead!" GOP: "We can't cut Y!" Compromise: GOP agrees to not cut spending on X, in return Dems agree to not cut spending on Y. No spending is cut. This is what happened in the Bush tax cuts expiry debate.

With Obama's plan (and some of the GOP proposals as well), we've finally seen the compromise move from "Let's not cut X or Y" to "Let's cut BOTH X and Y." This shift in mentality, if continued, could result in some real progress on the deficit.

[Boz]

This is going really, really well.

[AustinHoya03]

Debt-Ceiling Deal? 'Hell, No Caucus' Stands Firm

www.npr.org/2011/07/14/137832130/debt-ceiling-deal-hell-no-caucus-stands-firm

House Speaker John Boehner sounded a tad exasperated earlier this week on Fox News when asked whether he had enough votes in his big Republican majority to raise the debt ceiling.

"We have a number of our members who just don't believe that they should ever vote to increase the debt ceiling," Boehner said.

[ScreamingHoya]

I particularly enjoyed Michelle Bachmann's contention yesterday that exceeding the debt ceiling would have no consequences whatsoever, and it was the liberal media fueling the fire that Obama had started. Even more fun was the plan that she unveiled with Gohmert and Steve King that showed that the government could pay creditors, fund the military and social security, medicare and medicaid all without raising the debt ceiling. Of course, just a few things were left off that chart. Among the things that would not get funding would be veterans' benefits, unemployment insurance, homeland and border security, the FBI, prisons, and air traffic control.

Since we're posting links to articles, I'd suggest reading Charlie Cook's columns. www.nationaljournal.com/columns/cook-report/the-cook-report-memo-to-pols-on-debt-ceiling-must-we-pay-the-price-for-your-dithering--20110707

[Boz]

1. Except that she never said "there would be no consequences whatsoever."

2. The media IS fueling the fire over untrue claims from the administration about consequences from the failure to raise the debt ceiling.

and finally....

3. Michelle Bachmann isn't even in the room. She is a presidential candidate, yes, and worthy of attention, but probably not as much as she is getting, mainly from her political opponents.


I have many many criticisms over how the Republicans are handling this, but let's not pretend the administration or Congressional Democrats are just bending over backwards here.

Both sides are being equally intransigent. Anyone who says different is selling something, IMO.

[ksf42001]

As someone who's moving to England in August for school, I'm very scared how all this is going to affect exchange rates if there a deal isn't made.

[Buckets]

G.O.P.’s No-Tax Stance Is Outside Political Mainstream

Few Americans, however, take the view that spending cuts alone should be made in a deal, with no tax increases at all. In fact, only 26 percent of the Republican voters surveyed in Gallup’s poll took that position, along with 20 percent of voters overall.

I can only imagine how some would react if major negotiations were held up over some pledge that only the leftmost fifth of voters actually wanted.

[Boz]

1. I suppose "mainstream" depends somewhat on who is asking the questions.


2. This:
www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/images/WStandard-1.2011-07-13.PARODYII.img_assist_custom-653x1047.jpg
;D


3. Why the F am I numbering everything today?