DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 7, 2011 15:57:22 GMT -5
Post your predictions on the 2011 schedule.
09/03: DAVIDSON (Won by 10 last season) 09/10: LAFAYETTE (Won by 4 last season) 09/17: at Yale (Lost by 5 last season) 09/24: at Marist (Won by 7 last season) 10/01: at Bucknell (Lost by 3 last season) 10/08: at Wagner (Lost by 6 last season) 10/15: at Howard (Lost by 3 in 2009) 10/22: COLGATE (Lost by 31 last season) 10/29: at Holy Cross (Won by 10 last season) 11/05: FORDHAM (Lost by 5 last season) 11/12: at Lehigh (Lost by 17 last season)
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 7, 2011 19:07:48 GMT -5
Post your predictions on the 2011 schedule. 09/03: DAVIDSON - W 09/10: LAFAYETTE - L 09/17: at Yale - L 09/24: at Marist - W 10/01: at Bucknell - L 10/08: at Wagner - L 10/15: at Howard - W 10/22: COLGATE - L 10/29: at Holy Cross - L 11/05: FORDHAM - L 11/12: at Lehigh - L 3-8, but non-conference schedule is embarrassing.
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Ro
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Post by Ro on Jun 9, 2011 11:02:41 GMT -5
Would you prefer putting Richmond and ODU back on the non-conference schedule? Take out last year's losses to Colgate and Lehigh and we lost 5 games by a total of 22 points, and that includes the freak loss to Wagner. The last time we played Richmond the final score was 49-10, ODU 31-10. We actually competed last year. Let's continue to build confidence in the program and then branch out to higher level opponents as we can. It makes little sense to schedule better, higher profile opponents that we aren't ready for yet. I'd rather lose a close game to Yale or Howard as opposed to being blown out by Richmond or ODU. Losing by 3+ scores is tougher to stomach than being in games that we can actually win.
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Post by ahoyadad on Jun 9, 2011 13:09:14 GMT -5
"Problem of Dog", what exactly about the ooc schedule is "embarassing" and from what background (did you play college football?) do you make such statements?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 9, 2011 14:38:38 GMT -5
I picked five wins last season and I'll guess three in 2011:
Davidson- Win: Wildcats do not play well on the road. Lafayette - Loss: Tavani simply won't allow LC to be overconfident again. at Yale - Loss. Hoyas 0-9 vs. Ivy teams in Kelly era. at Marist - Win. Hoyas haven't won in Pougkeepsie since 1997, overdue. at Bucknell - Loss. Three straight on the road wears GU down late. at Wagner - Loss. Seahawks get a late stop on defense. at Howard - Win. Georgetown should have won the last time, too. Colgate - Loss. Ths slide begins here. at Holy Cross - Loss. Bad matchups here. Fordham - Loss. See what 30 scholarships can do. at Lehigh - Loss. Coen does not look ahead to Lafayette.
Georgetown's 4-7 record in 2010 should be put into context--three of its best games (win at Davidson, win at Lafayette, near win at Yale) all came in the opponents' first game of the season against a "new" GU offense. As teams began to trade film, the newness wore off and you saw defenses pick apart Georgetown offensively. Those losses to Wagner and Bucknell were the result of film work to allow these teams to prevail late.
PL coaches don't fear Georgetown, and why should they at this point? The Hoyas' offense presumes more of the same, and that's not good. Add to it its four toughest opponents come at the end of the season and GU could simply be worn out by then.
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Post by hoyahopeful on Jun 9, 2011 15:46:17 GMT -5
Each time I see DFW ask for predictions I want to channel Clubber Lang. But I see two victories--one of DFW's predicted wins becomes a loss instead. I am encouraged by the listed size of some freshman recruits, but line play at the collegiate level can be a really tough adjustment. Look for several frosh on the line this season and look for improvement in 2012. Also look for some other changes in 2012.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jun 9, 2011 16:18:13 GMT -5
"Problem of Dog", what exactly about the ooc schedule is "embarassing" and from what background (did you play college football?) do you make such statements? Can we stop with the "did you play college football"? Almost no one on the basketball board played college basketball, and it doesn't stop them from commenting, nor should it. Based on any statistical analysis from the past, Marist, Wagner, Yale, and Davidson is not exactly a murderer's row of I-AA scheduling.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 9, 2011 19:11:35 GMT -5
"Problem of Dog", what exactly about the ooc schedule is "embarassing" and from what background (did you play college football?) do you make such statements? Can we stop with the "did you play college football"? Almost no one on the basketball board played college basketball, and it doesn't stop them from commenting, nor should it. Based on any statistical analysis from the past, Marist, Wagner, Yale, and Davidson is not exactly a murderer's row of I-AA scheduling. And not only are they not good, excluding Yale, none of those teams have any name recognition. For the common fan, it looks like we went out and tried to find the schools that would draw as few fans as possible while also giving us a chance to win.
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Post by hoyahopeful on Jun 10, 2011 13:25:03 GMT -5
I wonder about the flip side of the scheduling issue. If you have a quality FCS program and you are not in the PL, would you really want to schedule Georgetown? A victory is expected and if the Hoyas beat you, you look really bad.
The Ivys have a natural connection to Georgetown--non scholarship and outstanding academic credentials. But after that who's left? No CAA team would want to schedule Georgetown even though a couple of them are nearby (Richmond and Towson). In fact, I believe that Richmond dumped the Hoyas and Towson has never been mentioned as a possibility.
So the Hoyas really don't have a lot of options within bus driving distance. And flying is totally out of the question.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 10, 2011 13:59:19 GMT -5
No CAA team would want to schedule Georgetown even though a couple of them are nearby (Richmond and Towson). In fact, I believe that Richmond dumped the Hoyas and Towson has never been mentioned as a possibility. So the Hoyas really don't have a lot of options within bus driving distance. And flying is totally out of the question. There are always options. In a four hour radius (roughly Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, NJ, and Eastern Pennsylvania) there are 17 different I-AA schools outside the PL. Add the Carolinas to the mix and you add 15 more. Granted, not all are a good fit, but it's not like Georgetown is San Diego, which needs three plane trips a year just to fill out the schedule. A large number of GU recruits will never get a game within the same time zone they grew up in. If Indiana State or Lamar or Cal Poly wanted to pay a guarantee to Georgetown, why not consider it here and there? North Dakota State was willing to fly Georgetown out to Fargo in late October, instead, Georgetown said no and and lost at Sacred Heart. And that game wasn't returned to Washington, either. Ninety percent of college football fans couldn't tell you Georgetown was 4-7 or 7-4 last season. The brand name still carries weight, however. (Before the ODU game in 2009, one of the ushers asked me, "Why would a big school like yours schedule a school like us?" He probably felt differently by the end of the 1st quarter.) In a better world, Georgetown should try to schedule up, which is what it did with adding Richmond and a starter program in ODU years ago. The fact that the team flatlined in 2007 and 2008 was certainly not in the plans when the schedules were set; and when someone is scheduling GU in five years time, they don't know what Georgetown will look like then, either. There are a lot of causes to a decade of poor play, from the dark cloud hanging over the MSF to Patriot League's restrictive admissions policies to errant recruiting to players that simply lost heart. But I'd never be one to say that Georgetown is doomed to being unable to schedule quality opponents.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 10, 2011 14:04:29 GMT -5
Just looking quickly at a map, here are the following schools we could schedule within driving distance, all of which are at least as recognizable as Wagner:
Robert Morris, Duquesne, St. Francis, James Madison, VMI, Liberty, Richmond, William & Mary, Hampton, Norfolk St., NC A&T, Elon, NC Central, Gardner Webb, Appalachian St., Morgan St., Towson, Delaware St., Delaware, Villanova, Penn, Princeton, Monmouth, Columbia, Stony Brook, Cornell, Sacred Heart, Rhode Island, Brown, Bryant, UMASS
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jun 12, 2011 9:46:49 GMT -5
Just looking quickly at a map, here are the following schools we could schedule within driving distance, all of which are at least as recognizable as Wagner: Robert Morris, Duquesne, St. Francis, James Madison, VMI, Liberty, Richmond, William & Mary, Hampton, Norfolk St., NC A&T, Elon, NC Central, Gardner Webb, Appalachian St., Morgan St., Towson, Delaware St., Delaware, Villanova, Penn, Princeton, Monmouth, Columbia, Stony Brook, Cornell, Sacred Heart, Rhode Island, Brown, Bryant, UMASS The Hoyas would lose by 35+ to at least 5-6 of those schools...
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 12, 2011 10:48:45 GMT -5
Just looking quickly at a map, here are the following schools we could schedule within driving distance, all of which are at least as recognizable as Wagner: Robert Morris, Duquesne, St. Francis, James Madison, VMI, Liberty, Richmond, William & Mary, Hampton, Norfolk St., NC A&T, Elon, NC Central, Gardner Webb, Appalachian St., Morgan St., Towson, Delaware St., Delaware, Villanova, Penn, Princeton, Monmouth, Columbia, Stony Brook, Cornell, Sacred Heart, Rhode Island, Brown, Bryant, UMASS I've long wishes we could play some MEAC schools so that, at the very least, we'd have a real big-time marching band to listen to at halftime. We have played quite a few of those schools in the past: there's the very memorable (for me, anyway) monsoon game against Duquesne that we won (having thrown for a total of 8 yards, no less); we played and beat VMI on homecoming in 2004; we beat St. Francis (PA) to start the 2004 season; we hosted Monmouth and Towson in 2003 (both losses); we played at Columbia in 2006 (but they never returned the favor for some reason?) and at UPenn in 2007. Side note: there was a Hoya Blue roadtrip to that game. Really. Credit to then-president RBHoya for not laughing in my face when I proposed it. Here's the visual evidence, featuring Kevin Kelly trying to figure out why we're there. Or why he's there, for that matter; that time in '07 that Cornell fans rented out Leo's for a pregame before their game against us; multiple games against Stony Brook; the aforementioned loss at Sacred Heart; and, of course, the MSF GRAND OPENING game against Brown. *sigh* We're also scheduled to play Princeton sometime in the future, I believe. Having said all that, I don't think it's in anyone's interest - unless we get paid guaranteed money for it - to have us get murdered by JMU or Delaware.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jun 12, 2011 13:12:20 GMT -5
Just looking quickly at a map, here are the following schools we could schedule within driving distance, all of which are at least as recognizable as Wagner: Robert Morris, Duquesne, St. Francis, James Madison, VMI, Liberty, Richmond, William & Mary, Hampton, Norfolk St., NC A&T, Elon, NC Central, Gardner Webb, Appalachian St., Morgan St., Towson, Delaware St., Delaware, Villanova, Penn, Princeton, Monmouth, Columbia, Stony Brook, Cornell, Sacred Heart, Rhode Island, Brown, Bryant, UMASS We're also scheduled to play Princeton sometime in the future, I believe. Having said all that, I don't think it's in anyone's interest - unless we get paid guaranteed money for it - to have us get murdered by JMU or Delaware. JMU or Delaware or William & Mary or App State or Villanova
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 12, 2011 14:59:37 GMT -5
The list of schools was simply refuting the fact that "the Hoyas really don't have a lot of options within bus driving distance". There are a lot of schools out there to play.
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Post by ahoyadad on Jun 12, 2011 19:04:52 GMT -5
The list of schools was simply refuting the fact that "the Hoyas really don't have a lot of options within bus driving distance". There are a lot of schools out there to play. And next season they have Yale, Princeton and Brown on the schedule
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Ro
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Post by Ro on Jun 14, 2011 11:04:05 GMT -5
WE decided to get out of the Richmond and ODU contracts...they did not "dump" us as previously posted. When those games were removed we had very little time and limited options to schedule opponents. The vast majority of schools have their schedules pretty much locked up 2-4 years in advance. We needed to make do with opponents who had open schedule dates that matched up with the newly created openings when we got out of the Richmond and ODU games. The universe of teams that would be within logical traveling distance AND have open dates was much more limited than just throwing out a list of 20-30 schools within an 8 hour driving radius. That also explains the imbalance between home and away games. We needed to fill dates, and these were the schools that could step into our open dates.
But even looking at the non-conference schedule this year, does anyone not think that games vs Howard and Davidson are steps towards creating decent rivalries? I would agree that Wagner and Marist should be looked at as match-ups of the past, and based upon our current 2012 and 2013 schedules and athletic department agrees. Yes Wagner is on there next year, but that is likely part of a contract we signed with them. Aside from them, next year we have Davidson, Yale, Princeton, Brown. In 2013 we have Brown and Princeton with another 3 games left to schedule. We are actually set to play Princeton through 2017, and have Dartmouth on the 2015 schedule.
Seriously people...what are you looking for? A few years ago people were here on the board complaining that we should be playing Ivy League schools in our non-conference schedule. Here we are now getting to do that, and people are complaining that we should be taking on top 25-ranked scholarship programs. We get Yale this year...but they aren't a part of "murder's row". So what??? They are the type of school everyone has been wanting us to target! Let's also not forget the fact that it isn't exactly going to be an easy game for us and should be looked at as a very worthwhile opponent for the program. They went 5-2 in the Ivy League last year, tying for 2nd place and 7-3 overall. They aren't exactly St. Mary's School For The Blind. Yes, this year's overall non-conference schedule may not be to your liking but it is a result of us having to scramble to fill dates, and we did that with familiar teams that had openings for us.
A Patriot League schedule, along with 3-4 Ivy League opponents (or more), along with rivalry games with Howard or Davidson looks like a pretty reasonable schedule to me. It's more than reasonable, it's actually pretty damn good and what the goals of the program were a decade ago. Here we are, getting there, and yet the booo-birds continue to come and pick apart the programs efforts. What do you want? What are you looking for? Yes the 0-11 season was a rough one, but we followed that up improving to 4-7 and 2-4 in conference. Maybe not the results you (or I) want but still a huge improvement. That's the most games we have won since Benson was on the sidelines. We are moving towards the schedule of opponents everyone has wanted. Those 2 steps alone should be reasons to be happy and positives to bulid upon. With the resources of the program, any turnaround is going to be a slow one...and if you would maybe take a "half full" look at what is happening on the Hilltop you could actually see that things are moving in the right direction.
If you would like the development of the program to pick up it's pace, then please feel free to pick up your checkbook or pick up your phone and ask your friends and classmates to pitch in and help the process. It's much easier to point out the downfalls of a struggling program. Why not try to help out and become a part of the solution as opposed to sitting around and being a detatched critic with no actionable input or effort?
As Coach Benson used to say, be a "thumb-guy". Stop pointing out problems. Stop blaming others for what isn't going right. Instead, take some accountability and fix what's wrong. Pointing out problems and complaining about them without a reasonable and logical way to solve them is really just useless...especially when things seem to be moving in the right direction.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jun 14, 2011 11:22:26 GMT -5
Most of my comments about the "murderer's row" were related to a snippy comment asking if someone else had played college football.
My problem with the previous statement that the schedule is improving is that we're not there yet. Playing Yale (who, last year excepted, usually isn't good) and four out of conference minnows isn't a great schedule. The Hoyas aren't playing three or four Ivy schools - they're playing one.
Davidson is a poor choice for a rival. They're much further than other schools and they've never won the non-scholarship Pioneer Football League.
There's a huge gap between getting slaughtered by JMU and playing Marist. The MEAC schools have already been mentioned - the Big South also seems a good option (VMI seems like a natural rival). Avoid the NEC and Pioneer like the plague.
So, time to be a thumb guy. Schedule two Ivies, add VMI and Howard as perpetual rivals, and add one weaker school.
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Post by ahoyadad on Jun 14, 2011 11:54:41 GMT -5
"My problem with the previous statement that the schedule is improving is that we're not there yet. Playing Yale (who, last year excepted, usually isn't good) and four out of conference minnows isn't a great schedule. The Hoyas aren't playing three or four Ivy schools - they're playing one."
as noted previously, next season (2012) there are 3 Ivy schools on the schedule: Yale, Princeton and Brown on 9/15, 9/22 and 9/29 respectively. 3 Ivy and 6 PL games is a "pretty good schedule" that mixes in Davidson and Wagner to complete the 11 game schedule, at least IMO
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Ro
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Post by Ro on Jun 14, 2011 14:21:33 GMT -5
"We aren't there yet"...because we dropped Richmond and ODU and had to scramble to fill those dates. You can't drop games less than a year before your next season and then expect to have your choice of opponent. Our out of conference schedule that would have been Richmond, ODU, and Yale very well would have ended in a season closer to 0-11 than last year's 4-7. Would that have been better for the program?
"Yale (who, last year excepted, usually isn't good)"...they are 34-16 over the past 5 years with 2009 being their only season below .500 at 4-6. They won the Ivy League in 2006, and lost it at the end of the 2007 season against Harvard. Over the past 5 years, only Harvard at 38-12 has a better winning percentage than Yale does amongst Ivy League schools. Penn is close at 32-18, and the balance of the conference is well behind these 3. So for at least the past half-decade they are, in fact, good and are at the top of the class of Ivy League football.
I didn't realize that Davidson was as far away as it is from DC. I thought it was closer to a 4ish hour trip as opposed to 6-7 hours. I agree that there could/should be closer schools to consider.
I think that keeping Howard on the schedule is an absolute must, whether or not they are high in their conference rankings. I really like the idea of a DC rivarly. I do like the idea of VMI, but I'm not sure how realistic it would be to schedule with them. At a very quick glance, it looked to me as if they consistently play out of conference games vs William and Mary and other military schools such as the Citadel and Army. They appear to have at least one 1A opponent (UVA last year, Akron next) and next year have Richmond and Delaware St. They played ODU this past season, and I'm quite surprised to not see them playing again this coming year. Could be they already had their schedule locked in and couldn't get out of games to make room for ODU.
I think it is tough when you start to look towards scholarship conferences like the MEAC and Big South and expect us to turn the program around and win. In the eyes of some it seems like we're damned if we don't schedule higher profile games, and damned when we lose them.
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