idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Mar 30, 2011 12:18:49 GMT -5
How good Greg can be depends on how good Greg wants to be. So far, he's saying all the right things. We'll see
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on Mar 30, 2011 15:00:43 GMT -5
How good Greg can be depends on how good Greg wants to be. So far, he's saying all the right things. We'll see Let's say Greg, or anybody for that matter, doesn't play that well for Georgetown. The complaining can go 3 ways. 1. He's not Big East caliber. 2. The coaches can't develop talent. 3. Both 1 and 2. This is my personal favorite and lots of posters seem to want to bash JT3 and the staff for both recruiting poorly and not developing at the same time.
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DoctorHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by DoctorHoya on Mar 30, 2011 15:23:52 GMT -5
kghoya, you're right. We do often tend to lean those ways. However, I think that idhoya has a great point. So much of how talented a player can become is dependent on their work ethic. I can think of three players that really blossomed after leaving Georgetown and working their a**es off: 1. Vernon Macklin--admittedly put time in at the gym and watching film that he didn't while at Georgetown. Now is a possible draft pick. 2. Roy Hibbert--while we can all say that Roy was a great player at Georgetown, there was always something missing. Roy took it on himself to go out and fill in the gaps of his game this summer by increasing his athleticism. 3. Greg Monroe--Greg never really put in 100% effort here at Georgetown when it came to intensity and such. He seemed more indifferent than anything. Now he is in the NBA and pulling out double doubles left and right because he is putting the effort in. While we can look at these examples and think "hey, yeah these guys really didn't put the effort in they needed to," it also begs the question of whether or not the coaches were strong enough motivators. To me, it seems like the "what came first, chicken or egg?" question, but judging by the success of these players under other coaching, I tend to lean towards the lack of intensity required by JTIII et al. Regardless, seeing a player like Greg Whittington come in who is so pumped up about being here and bringing his A game is as great of a start as we could possibly ask for. I am truly excited to see what he can do for us next year! How good Greg can be depends on how good Greg wants to be. So far, he's saying all the right things. We'll see Let's say Greg, or anybody for that matter, doesn't play that well for Georgetown. The complaining can go 3 ways. 1. He's not Big East caliber. 2. The coaches can't develop talent. 3. Both 1 and 2. This is my personal favorite and lots of posters seem to want to bash JT3 and the staff for both recruiting poorly and not developing at the same time.
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Post by atlasfrysmith on Mar 30, 2011 15:36:54 GMT -5
DoctorHoya--I'll give you Vernon and Greg, but I don't think your description of Roy's development is accurate. Yes, he's put in a lot of work in the NBA to build his game. But he did that at Georgetown too--the guy was really not good when he started, and worked and worked, added new skills, and got better every year. He's just continuing a long ascendency.
And everybody gets more athletic when they go to the league--it's your job to be a world-class athlete, and you have tremendous resources--especially time--available to pursue it. If you don't, you lose your job--cf. Mike Sweetney.
New Greg's challenge will be the same as anyone's at Georgetown--learn the system, play hard, continue to add skills every year. It will take both great coaching and great effort.
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DoctorHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by DoctorHoya on Mar 30, 2011 16:08:07 GMT -5
I will agree with your points. Perhaps it's JTIII's lack of intensity during games that is throwing off my perception haha He has the Austin Freeman demeanor most of the time. Sorry for hijacking your thread, Greg. We are extremely excited that you're going to be a Hoya. Welcome to the hilltop!! DoctorHoya--I'll give you Vernon and Greg, but I don't think your description of Roy's development is accurate. Yes, he's put in a lot of work in the NBA to build his game. But he did that at Georgetown too--the guy was really not good when he started, and worked and worked, added new skills, and got better every year. He's just continuing a long ascendency. And everybody gets more athletic when they go to the league--it's your job to be a world-class athlete, and you have tremendous resources--especially time--available to pursue it. If you don't, you lose your job--cf. Mike Sweetney. New Greg's challenge will be the same as anyone's at Georgetown--learn the system, play hard, continue to add skills every year. It will take both great coaching and great effort.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Mar 30, 2011 16:33:39 GMT -5
I disagree on VM. He still gets the majority of his points on put backs and breaks and hasn't really developed more moves than the running hook, which he had a GU. Had he stayed he'd been the man his last two years and developed other skills. There are a few factors as to why he left and I don't think the "lack of love" from III had much to do with it.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Mar 30, 2011 16:34:32 GMT -5
I don't know Doctor, I think there might be something to that. Not that JTIII can't reach players or convince them to work, but that maybe his approach to getting players to work hard works better with some guys (Roy, Jeff, Jon) than it does with others (Vern, Henry, Jason at least wrt ballhandling).
I'm of the opinion that there are too many times in the last 3 years where we just came out flat in important games for it to be a coincidence. My completely speculative hypothesis is that JTIII has had some difficulty motivating players with a certain kind of mindset, i.e., a laid back one. I think the first generation of players had a similar laid back mindset, but those guys were self-motivated (Roy, Jon) and/or confident (Jeff, Jessie, PEJr). I think the second generation of players were similar in mindset, but like less self-motivated or more prone to losing confidence, and that's why we seem to be a softer team in many ways than we were a few years ago. To his credit, I think JTIII has realized that and, to some extent, targeted guys with a different mindset--read confident and aggressive. Trawick jumps to mind, as does Whittington, who doesn't seem to lack for confidence. Nate is certainly a more aggressive player than we've had; I think Markel plays with more fire than a lot of the upperclassmen did; and Vee clearly carries himself with a great deal of confidence. Hell, I think part of the reason he went after JB was for that reason.
I might be completely off by that, but I think there is something to it. And I think it's a good thing if that is true. JTIII is so good at being the calming influence and keeping his players from getting too high, I'd rather have him trying to calm players down than trying to pump them up.
And please don't take this as a knock on any current/past player because it's not. Guys are just wired differently, and I'm wondering if the wiring of the guys from the past 3 years has been not the ideal match with III's.
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DoctorHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by DoctorHoya on Mar 30, 2011 16:55:48 GMT -5
I never said the "lack of love from III" had anything to do with it. VM said himself that he didn't work nearly as hard at gtown as he does at Florida (gym time, film, different moves, etc). Had he stayed at Georgetown, he very well may have stepped it up, but if he was allowed to stay in the same mindset that he didn't have to work his *ss off, as he was for the first two years, I seriously doubt he would have made any huge strides. These things are easy to say in hindset and all speculation (except for his direct quotes in another thread), but all I was trying to put out there is that there seems to be a pattern. Whether it's internal motivation by the players themselves or lack of motivation from coaches, nobody here knows for sure. I am just glad that coach is recruiting players who do have a swagger about them. I can't wait to see the fire in these guys. I disagree on VM. He still gets the majority of his points on put backs and breaks and hasn't really developed more moves than the running hook, which he had a GU. Had he stayed he'd been the man his last two years and developed other skills. There are a few factors as to why he left and I don't think the "lack of love" from III had much to do with it.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 30, 2011 20:31:46 GMT -5
I disagree with all three.
Vernon Macklin had one really good game that you happened to see. But honestly, his skillset and production are not sparkling for three more years of development.
On the other two...well, that's ridiculous.
One, any criticism of development in the NBA versus college is ignoring the very real fact that college players practice for two hours a day, can only be instructed half the year, have to do schoolwork and often have to hold a separate job. In addition, they are less mature and responsible than the later incarnations of themselves as a rule.
In the NBA, they can work on their game 10 hours a day if they like, get year round instruction, don't have to worry about money and generally have access to ancillary coaches and helpers like personal trainers and nutritionists that aren't as common at the college level. And yes, NBA coaches are generally better.
Oh, and they've grown up a bit usually as well.
Rudy Gay is 10x the player now he was at UConn. Did Calhoun fail? Same with Rose and Calipari.
Two, both Monroe and Roy were very young for their grades -- so physical maturity plays a larger role with them than it does with many players.
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tonyparker
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by tonyparker on Apr 1, 2011 14:32:56 GMT -5
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Apr 1, 2011 18:03:30 GMT -5
Jide used to grind a few years ago, but I haven't heard much from him lately. Good to see him still doin his thing. Definitely needs to proof read his stuff though.
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Post by harwoodhoya on Apr 1, 2011 21:01:54 GMT -5
Good to hear from Jide
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by alleninxis on Apr 15, 2011 15:33:31 GMT -5
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Apr 15, 2011 15:38:59 GMT -5
fantastic. Look forward to watching him develop.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 15, 2011 16:56:46 GMT -5
Glad to hear! Greg, get pumped up and work hard during the off-season.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Apr 18, 2011 10:00:30 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 18, 2011 10:29:48 GMT -5
Flashes of brilliance are the key; the hard work will happen.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 18, 2011 11:15:35 GMT -5
Flashes of brilliance are the key; the hard work will happen. This summer at Kenner and the China trip will be HUGE for this squad. Greg, Jabril and Otto will have the opportunity to grow up a lot.. Actually all the young guys on the team
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 18, 2011 11:26:03 GMT -5
Flashes of brilliance are the key; the hard work will happen. This summer at Kenner and the China trip will be HUGE for this squad. Greg, Jabril and Otto will have the opportunity to grow up a lot.. Actually all the young guys on the team Absolutely. The China trip will be a great experience for these kids, and an incredible bonding opportunity. Hopefully it will jumpstart the team's chemistry and lead to good things next season and beyond.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 18, 2011 13:55:08 GMT -5
"Coach OJ Johnson who played at Georgetown 2000-2002" - is that Glennard? Don't recall the OJ moniker. Of course as a little-used bench player I didn't know much of anything about him. Yes, as noted on the front page.--Adminwww.hoyasaxa.com/sports/bball.htm#news
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