SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 7, 2010 15:41:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't be shocked to see us lose, but defense doesn't usually win. We've already beaten two very good defensive teams - ODU and Utah State -- who lost because they couldn't offensively keep up.
National Champions almost always are good at both -- of course -- but there was a study just a few years ago that showed that it's better to be better at offense than defense -- or rather, offense only teams do better than defense only. That may simply be because you can be further differentiated on offense, I think, but even so... The whole "defense wins championships" isn't wrong in college basketball -- it just doesn't seem to be more important than the O.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 7, 2010 15:42:48 GMT -5
It's interesting because our offense is slightly better than their defense: 6 vs. 7 but our defense is much better than their offense: 37 vs. 112.
I agree with the statement that defense wins championships in the sense that a team with good defense and a decent offense will beat a team with a good offense and bad defense, but I'm not sure how far a good defense beats good offense line of logic really goes.
I mean when we're lights out from 3 like say against Duke last year where we were shooting 71% from the field, that was a good offense destroying a good defense. Duke had the number 4 defense last year while we had the number 9 offense.
In fact over the last few years it's teams with the best offenses that have won the national title: Last year Duke #1 O #4 D 2009 UNC #1 O #16 D 2008 Kansas #2 O #1 D 2007 Florida #1 O #12 D 2006 Florida #2 O # 5 D 2005 UNC #1 O # 5 D 2004 Uconn #4 O #5 D 2003 Cuse #11 O # 19 D
you have to go back to 04 to find a team that wasn't #1 or #2 in Offense and only 08 kansas had a better defense than offense. And they were the #1 Defense and the only #1 defense to win a title over this stretch. The #1 defense has only gotten past the sweet 16 2 other times and both times it was also kansas. 3 times the #1 defense lost in the first round of the NCAAs.
I know none of this really proves anything since often those teams with #1 D's also had offenses close to 100, but it's all kinda neat.
We still need to improve our defense if we want to get to a final 4, but I think even a great defense can't stop a great offense. I mean how often do you see a player play great defense and the offensive player hits the shot anyway. I think the great defense beats great offense is a lot more true in football than in basketball.
It's also interesting to note Temple hasn't played an offense as good as ours: closest 3 : texas AM 32, seton hall 54, Maryland 56 but we haven't played a defense nearly as good as theirs: closest 3: ODU 46, mizzou 66, Utah st 80.
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Dhall on Dec 7, 2010 17:00:47 GMT -5
It's interesting because our offense is slightly better than their defense: 6 vs. 7 but our defense is much better than their offense: 37 vs. 112. I agree with the statement that defense wins championships in the sense that a team with good defense and a decent offense will beat a team with a good offense and bad defense, but I'm not sure how far a good defense beats good offense line of logic really goes. I mean when we're lights out from 3 like say against Duke last year where we were shooting 71% from the field, that was a good offense destroying a good defense. Duke had the number 4 defense last year while we had the number 9 offense. In fact over the last few years it's teams with the best offenses that have won the national title: Last year Duke #1 O #4 D 2009 UNC #1 O #16 D 2008 Kansas #2 O #1 D 2007 Florida #1 O #12 D 2006 Florida #2 O # 5 D 2005 UNC #1 O # 5 D 2004 Uconn #4 O #5 D 2003 Cuse #11 O # 19 D you have to go back to 04 to find a team that wasn't #1 or #2 in Offense and only 08 kansas had a better defense than offense. And they were the #1 Defense and the only #1 defense to win a title over this stretch. The #1 defense has only gotten past the sweet 16 2 other times and both times it was also kansas. 3 times the #1 defense lost in the first round of the NCAAs. I know none of this really proves anything since often those teams with #1 D's also had offenses close to 100, but it's all kinda neat. We still need to improve our defense if we want to get to a final 4, but I think even a great defense can't stop a great offense. I mean how often do you see a player play great defense and the offensive player hits the shot anyway. I think the great defense beats great offense is a lot more true in football than in basketball. It's also interesting to note Temple hasn't played an offense as good as ours: closest 3 : texas AM 32, seton hall 54, Maryland 56 but we haven't played a defense nearly as good as theirs: closest 3: ODU 46, mizzou 66, Utah st 80. I do think it's a little early in the season to be calling anyone a good defense or offense since most teams (including us) have played only a mix of total cupcakes and decent opponents. We shot 51% from the field against Ohio and got blown out because we couldn't play defense. To me, it seems like a higher probability that jump shots don't go in for a good offense on a particular day compared to the likelihood of a good defensive team all of a sudden not being able to play defense, so relying on a defense is usually a safer strategy. There are examples on both sides of course.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,679
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Post by seaweed on Dec 7, 2010 18:30:00 GMT -5
In fact over the last few years it's teams with the best offenses that have won the national title: Last year Duke #1 O #4 D 2009 UNC #1 O #16 D 2008 Kansas #2 O #1 D 2007 Florida #1 O #12 D 2006 Florida #2 O # 5 D 2005 UNC #1 O # 5 D 2004 Uconn #4 O #5 D 2003 Cuse #11 O # 19 D Even now, years later in an isolated statistical analysis, it is abundantly clear that 'scuse just doesn't belong on that list.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 7, 2010 20:05:38 GMT -5
It's interesting because our offense is slightly better than their defense: 6 vs. 7 but our defense is much better than their offense: 37 vs. 112. I agree with the statement that defense wins championships in the sense that a team with good defense and a decent offense will beat a team with a good offense and bad defense, but I'm not sure how far a good defense beats good offense line of logic really goes. I mean when we're lights out from 3 like say against Duke last year where we were shooting 71% from the field, that was a good offense destroying a good defense. Duke had the number 4 defense last year while we had the number 9 offense. In fact over the last few years it's teams with the best offenses that have won the national title: Last year Duke #1 O #4 D 2009 UNC #1 O #16 D 2008 Kansas #2 O #1 D 2007 Florida #1 O #12 D 2006 Florida #2 O # 5 D 2005 UNC #1 O # 5 D 2004 Uconn #4 O #5 D 2003 Cuse #11 O # 19 D you have to go back to 04 to find a team that wasn't #1 or #2 in Offense and only 08 kansas had a better defense than offense. And they were the #1 Defense and the only #1 defense to win a title over this stretch. The #1 defense has only gotten past the sweet 16 2 other times and both times it was also kansas. 3 times the #1 defense lost in the first round of the NCAAs. I know none of this really proves anything since often those teams with #1 D's also had offenses close to 100, but it's all kinda neat. We still need to improve our defense if we want to get to a final 4, but I think even a great defense can't stop a great offense. I mean how often do you see a player play great defense and the offensive player hits the shot anyway. I think the great defense beats great offense is a lot more true in football than in basketball. It's also interesting to note Temple hasn't played an offense as good as ours: closest 3 : texas AM 32, seton hall 54, Maryland 56 but we haven't played a defense nearly as good as theirs: closest 3: ODU 46, mizzou 66, Utah st 80. I do think it's a little early in the season to be calling anyone a good defense or offense since most teams (including us) have played only a mix of total cupcakes and decent opponents. We shot 51% from the field against Ohio and got blown out because we couldn't play defense. To me, it seems like a higher probability that jump shots don't go in for a good offense on a particular day compared to the likelihood of a good defensive team all of a sudden not being able to play defense, so relying on a defense is usually a safer strategy. There are examples on both sides of course. I think that's fair, my point was more assuming both are on the one teams offense and the other teams defense I think the offense wins. I think also that teams with highly rated offenses are rated highly because they consistently hit shots at a high rate and so less likely to have an off night and are also diverse enough offensively that if their shots are off they can score in other ways.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
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Post by chep3 on Dec 7, 2010 23:49:05 GMT -5
I do think it's a little early in the season to be calling anyone a good defense or offense since most teams (including us) have played only a mix of total cupcakes and decent opponents. We shot 51% from the field against Ohio and got blown out because we couldn't play defense. To me, it seems like a higher probability that jump shots don't go in for a good offense on a particular day compared to the likelihood of a good defensive team all of a sudden not being able to play defense, so relying on a defense is usually a safer strategy. There are examples on both sides of course. The converse of that problem is not a team forgetting how to play defense, but the other team just being really hot. Good defenses can get beaten by hot shooting teams just the same way that good offenses can go cold. Let's just be good at both.
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Post by berrypatch26 on Dec 8, 2010 5:50:04 GMT -5
Every team is looking to knock off a Top 10 team, so every game will be a tough one for you from here on.
The question is: how do you keep on winning, no matter who you play? Focus and concentration are often mentioned, for good reason; but, they're generalities. What about specifics?
Here are a few thoughts. The goal is "one stop, one score" on every possession - all game long. Impossible? Perhaps, but it's the right objective.
And that means, on defense, deny your man the ball. On offense, it means break for the basket, over and over again. At both ends, every rebound belongs to you; if you can't rip it, tip it and go get it again. Most importantly, it means play each possession as if it were the last one in the game.
Good luck Hoyas.
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Post by bigelephant on Dec 8, 2010 8:47:30 GMT -5
Every team is looking to knock off a Top 10 team, so every game will be a tough one for you from here on. The question is: how do you keep on winning, no matter who you play? Focus and concentration are often mentioned, for good reason; but, they're generalities. What about specifics? Here are a few thoughts. The goal is "one stop, one score" on every possession - all game long. Impossible? Perhaps, but it's the right objective. And that means, on defense, deny your man the ball. On offense, it means break for the basket, over and over again. At both ends, every rebound belongs to you; if you can't rip it, tip it and go get it again. Most importantly, it means play each possession as if it were the last one in the game. Good luck Hoyas. Everyone on the team should memorize that advice
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 8, 2010 9:55:57 GMT -5
I think something that's been a key and will be a key all season is the ability of the press to refocus our defense. By going to the press it forces the team to focus more on the defensive end and pick up the defensive intensity on the court.
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MassHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,786
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Post by MassHoya on Dec 8, 2010 10:00:23 GMT -5
"One stop, one score" should be the mantra for this team the rest of the year. Anybody on any night can knock you off. That's how they stay focused.
GO HOYAS!!!! Beat the Owls.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 8, 2010 12:11:26 GMT -5
Apparently Clark is the latest to get hit by the flu bug, per Twitter.
Get well soon JC.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 8, 2010 15:08:09 GMT -5
Get well soon, Jason!
Potential set-back for tomorrow night. Hope that JC is on the upswing by tomorrow night, and if not (or even if so), hope that Mssrs. Sanford and Starks prove ready for their close-ups.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 8, 2010 15:12:00 GMT -5
At this point, one has to wonder whether the entire team shares a water bottle. Who hasn't been sick thus far?
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 8, 2010 15:36:28 GMT -5
Here's hoping that it means they'll have all cleared the cold and flu season, long before conference play starts!
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
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Post by chep3 on Dec 8, 2010 15:52:14 GMT -5
Can we get the guys some flu shots?
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Dec 8, 2010 16:06:13 GMT -5
Can we get the guys some flu shots? This.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 8, 2010 17:11:12 GMT -5
Can we send a germ-laden package to the Suckacuse locker room?
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,366
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Post by calhoya on Dec 8, 2010 18:03:10 GMT -5
Does Temple play a zone or man defense or some combination of both? My concern with the zone was exemplified in the USU 1st half when they were able to extend their zone out to the perimeter and cut back on our 3 point opportunities. Also, what kind of guards does Temple have this year?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 8, 2010 19:12:21 GMT -5
Temple plays "mostly man" Meaning their primary defense is man to man, but they're not exclusively man to man.
Temple doesn't have any shooters(Knock on wood) their guards do their damage from the mid range.
Ramond More 6-4 guard is their leading scorer at 13pts per game. He gets to the line a lot.
Their other guard is Juan Fernandez( hasn't been shooting well but if i remember he hit a bunch of 3s in their win over Nova last year Shot 45% form 3 last year this years he's shooting 24% let's hope he doesn't break out of his slump against us.)
Both of them have been scoring on pull up jumpers and lay ups.
Their back ups don't seem to stand out.
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Post by thehandicapper on Dec 8, 2010 19:48:33 GMT -5
Just scored some tickets for the game tomorrow. I am driving up after work.
Does anyone know what the parking situation is around Temple? Is there any garages around there?
What is the best way to get to the game?
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