DudeSlade
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Post by DudeSlade on Dec 20, 2010 17:42:33 GMT -5
Obviously Nate and Hank have been playing very well and forcing JTIII to play them, but 12 minutes in the last game seems awfully low for Julian and his minutes in general have been pretty low for a starter ever since his illness. Is it still affecting him or has his play dipped or are Hank and Nate really playing well enough to get more minutes than he does? I thought he might be a surprise 3rd team or Hon. Mention BE this year before it started, so he's the one guy that I'm kinda disappointed to see not play as well as I had hoped.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 20, 2010 17:53:28 GMT -5
dudeslade, the last game was all about getting the bench some run. If Chris, Austin, and Jason were played for less than 20 minutes each, then I wouldn't take too much.
Henry and Nate played about their minutes average on Saturday, but the big difference (and the big upside) was that we got to see some extended Moses time, which we wouldn't have gotten if Julian had played more minutes.
I think it's clear at this point that unless Sims, Vaughn or Moses start to learn/develop a brand new position in the system, they're all 5's in the 2010-11 version of JTIII's offense, and so there's a finite number of minutes for them to share. 40, to be exact.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 20, 2010 17:54:27 GMT -5
Nate, keep practicing that 3 from the top. If Nate is wide-open at the top of the arc, set feet, and his defender is below the FT line, not coming out and daring him to shoot, then I want him to have the confidence to take it a la Hibbert. If he starts making them, then the defender will have to guard him much closer and it will open up the passing lanes whenever he's in that position.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 20, 2010 18:28:31 GMT -5
There's no doubt Henry is eating into Julian's minutes a bit, especially where he's a better matchup. It's fine, because it keeps them both fresh. And Julian's never going to be a 30 mpg guy anyway.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 20, 2010 20:47:46 GMT -5
Henry has been playing better than Vaughn for the last 6-8 games. I think JTIII has basically awarded Sims with more minutes than Vaughn. Some of it is style/pace of game play, but on balance I just think Hank has out-played Julian and has earned the increased minutes at Julian's expense.
I'm not sure how it would play with the team - it may upset the apple cart, but I wouldn't mind if Sims replaced Vaughn in the starting lineup if JTIII determined Hank is the superior player. Kind of a team dynamics question. To be sure, the offense seems to be flowing better with Henry in the game.
I re-watched some of the highlights from the game, and Henry had a couple truly outstanding passes out of the post for assists. Julian seems a little less inclined to facilitate scoring opportunities from the post unless he makes a move to score.
Henry seems a bit more dynamic and can get up and down the floor a little better. With our increased pace of play, fast breaking, and more offensive chances each game, Henry may simply fit our style of play better.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 20, 2010 20:52:20 GMT -5
Btw, I am so psyched to be able to make the Henry argument this year. He has come so far since last year. It is so amazing. I think he has improved more than Hibbert did between his freshman and sophomore years - and that was considered at the time a quantum leap.
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Post by bigelephant on Dec 21, 2010 8:58:31 GMT -5
I think there are enough minutes to get max effort from all. 4 & 5 have 80 min. 15-20 for Jules, Nate and Henry. 15 for jerelle and Moses and 10 for Hollis plus 10 from the 3 - give or take. I just don't see III not starting Julian at this point - his experienced 5. Nate and Henry are lookin good but the real games are just beginning.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 21, 2010 9:06:56 GMT -5
One thing I've noticed in the last couple of games is that Coach seems to be bringing in Sims and Lubick as a unit to replace Hollis and Julian, at least in the first substitution. Wouldn't be surprised if it's a larger plan (not to change the starting lineup, but to capitalize on the strength and chemistry).
It is interesting that we have a starting 4-5 combination in which the 4 is springy and the 5 is a widebody, and a "first off the bench" combo in which the roles are reversed.
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Post by bigelephant on Dec 21, 2010 9:20:21 GMT -5
One thing I've noticed in the last couple of games is that Coach seems to be bringing in Sims and Lubick as a unit to replace Hollis and Julian, at least in the first substitution. Wouldn't be surprised if it's a larger plan (not to change the starting lineup, but to capitalize on the strength and chemistry). It is interesting that we have a starting 4-5 combination in which the 4 is springy and the 5 is a widebody, and a "first off the bench" combo in which the roles are reversed. You speak truth
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 21, 2010 10:01:44 GMT -5
I just hope that Hollis is not lost in the scramble for minutes. He provides a 4th legitimate option from the outside and I would really like to see him get some minutes with two "bigs" in the game. If that has happened I have missed it. Rotating him in to play the 3 with Jason or Austin taking a few minutes off, would create a very large and imposing line-up for us without giving up the outside threat.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 21, 2010 10:13:10 GMT -5
it happened briefly but not for any extended run. Hollis has led the team in rebounding 3 times this year, He'll get his minutes.
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DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
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Post by DudeSlade on Dec 21, 2010 13:17:52 GMT -5
it happened briefly but not for any extended run. Hollis has led the team in rebounding 3 times this year, He'll get his minutes. Could this also be a function of who we've played? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to see many games being on the west coast, but it seems that we have played smaller teams or more uptempo teams (is that an incorrect assumption?). Could we possibly go to Hollis at the 3 more often in Big East play where we encounter some bigger, stronger, more rugged teams? Also any chance we see Hank and Julian play together? That would seem to be a very complementary and strong rebounding duo.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 21, 2010 13:49:54 GMT -5
it happened briefly but not for any extended run. Hollis has led the team in rebounding 3 times this year, He'll get his minutes. Could this also be a function of who we've played? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to see many games being on the west coast, but it seems that we have played smaller teams or more uptempo teams (is that an incorrect assumption?). Could we possibly go to Hollis at the 3 more often in Big East play where we encounter some bigger, stronger, more rugged teams? Also any chance we see Hank and Julian play together? That would seem to be a very complementary and strong rebounding duo. Not likely, but too early to tell. JT3 tried for 2 years to make Henry a 4 in this system and it did not work. I don't think its a coincidence that Henry's play has improved greatly when he is now asked to play the 5 position only. Moses has quick feet and probably can guard a 4, but hasn't shown so far that he has the handle to break his guy down from the top of the free throw line and drive to basket, or hit open 3pt shot. JT3 was forced to try to use Henry at the 4 because of the shortage of 4's and Bennimon's inexperience. Now with Nate coming on and Bennimon's year of experience 3 can keep Henry at 5 position and let Thompson/Nate/Bennimon share time at 4. Would be great if Moses developed those skills mentioned earlier by next year. It would make 3's flexibillity at that position unreal .
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 21, 2010 13:52:29 GMT -5
Could this also be a function of who we've played? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to see many games being on the west coast, but it seems that we have played smaller teams or more uptempo teams (is that an incorrect assumption?). Could we possibly go to Hollis at the 3 more often in Big East play where we encounter some bigger, stronger, more rugged teams? Also any chance we see Hank and Julian play together? That would seem to be a very complementary and strong rebounding duo. Not likely, but too early to tell. JT3 tried for 2 years to make Henry a 4 in this system and it did not work. I don't think its a coincidence that Henry's play has improved greatly when he is now asked to play the 5 position only. Moses has quick feet and probably can guard a 4, but hasn't shown so far that he has the handle to break his guy down from the top of the free throw line and drive to basket, or hit open 3pt shot. JT3 was forced to try to use Henry at the 4 because of the shortage of 4's and Bennimon's inexperience. Now with Nate coming on and Bennimon's year of experience 3 can keep Henry at 5 position and let Thompson/Nate/Bennimon share time at 4. Would be great if Moses developed those skills mentioned earlier by next year. It would make 3's flexibillity at that position unreal . What's the difference b/w the 4 & 5 position in JT3's system?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2010 14:14:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure I would call it the 4 and 5, but this is how I'd phrase it:
1. Who you guard is a big difference
2. The position people are calling the five is offensively the high/low post position -- what Hibbert did, what Sims mostly does. Yes, at times they dribble at the top of the key, but much less.
3. The position people are calling the four does less of that, and spends it's perimeter time on the wing more. It's more important to shoot the three effectively, and they tend to play-make less off the back to the basket post (low or high) and more facing up. Nate and Hollis do this.
Here's the thing: I don't think it is as clear a difference as people make it out to be from a SYSTEM standpoint. When Jeff played the five, the positions melded because he was capable of it all. It's divided here because Julian really needs to play the center style, Hank is somewhere in between but closer to the center style, Nate can do both, and Hollis needs to play the Brandon Bowman 4 (no posting, just shooting and driving).
It looks like disparate positions, but it's merely the system adjusting to the personnel.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 21, 2010 14:27:15 GMT -5
That makes sense. Thanks.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 21, 2010 16:01:52 GMT -5
Well said, SF -- I used the 4 and 5 terms because they're accessible enough, but I think the main key with this team is that in an offensive possession, it seems like what Sims does and what Vaughn does would have a harder time coexisting on the court.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 21, 2010 16:59:24 GMT -5
If Nate keeps developing we don't need to worry about playing Julian and Henry together. Nate can give us some toughness at the 4(granted as a freshman he lacks some of the strength he will develop over the next couple of years) to go with Henry's play in the middle. Nate can also play with Julian when we need more power underneath, with Jerrelle chipping in as needed. As for Moses, hope he can contribute down low as well, just can't tell yet how he will fare in the Black-and-Blue East.
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Post by bigelephant on Dec 22, 2010 9:28:37 GMT -5
Before this season started, I don't think many on this board thought we'd have so many options with the bigs. Now we just need to keep it up as we enter the BE season - if they can, then I think we will surprise a lot of folks.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 22, 2010 16:29:22 GMT -5
I think that with the development we have seen in Henry from last year, and with Nate in the first 11 games, there is a great chance they will still get significantly better this season as they become more comfortable. The bigs can definitely become a strength for this team, and can help the Big 3 take us a long way.
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