hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 5, 2010 11:40:38 GMT -5
Boz, I guess I can't argue with your logic there. When there is some extenuating circumstances that cause a scheduled event to go on much longer than expected, then it's reasonable to follow your ending greater than beginning suggestion.
That being said, I'll give you a hypothetical:
This past summer, there were a couple of overlapping "major" events. Again, this is hypothetical, but still let's test your theory. The College World Series was going on at the same time as The World Cup and Wimbledon. There was a most unusual match at Wimbledon this year, as we all know. There was a marathon match to end all marathon matches. I forget the exact final score, and for that matter the names of the participants, but that doesn't matter for this little exercise. An American named Eisner was playing a Frenchman and it went to 5 sets. The fifth set in Wimbledon doesn't use a tiebreaker, instead opting to play it out until one player has won at least 6 games in the set and has at least a 2 game margin in the set. The fifth set went to something like 70 or 80 games each, before finally being won by the American. In fact, the match started on ond day and ended 2 days later, being called for darkness, not once, but twice! The match set countless records which likely will never be touched. The point in all this is whether insisting on covering the ending of such a match would justify preempting the coverage of something "more important." Now I know that the coverage of Wimbledon, in this particular case was and "all day" affair, but suppose it hadn't. Also, a US soccer match did in fact overlap a bit with the match, but coverage was scattered around on different channels. Additionally, the College World Series games that day started later. But suppose that wasn't the case. Suppose all of these events were scheduled for the same channel. Suppose the tennis coverage was supposed to end at 10am, when the soccer match was supposed to start. Then suppose the College World Series game was scheduled for noon. Now suppose that the tennis match goes on and on, like it did. It would have lasted through the entire soccer match to begin with. How do you handle it, if it isn't simply a matter of moving coverage temporarily to ESPNU ... which many people don't get. Would your answer be different at noon? Suppose the US soccer match, which could have eliminated them, goes overtime, and then even a shootout. What do you do about the baseball game?
Obviously, this isn't that much of a stretch, nor is it that different of a situation that we had last Saturday. But my question is do you stick to the ending is more important than the beginning philosophy?
To me, logic would dictate that you establish a hierarchy. Presumably, the most important event would take precedent, followed by the next most important. In this case, I think we would agree that the soccer match was the most important, followed by the CWS game. Lastly, the tennis match, as amazing as it was, was still just an early round matchup, unlikely to feature any of the ultimate contenders, once things shake out a week and a half later.
But under that rationale, I think most would agree that football is more important. Where do you draw the line between the importance of the events as a whole, with the importance of the relative drama and point of the contest?
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 5, 2010 12:39:11 GMT -5
Nah, I disagree with this. That tennis match was one for the ages, and will likely be remembered when lots of major finals have been forgotten. You stay with the tennis.
Also, I acknowledge this is just me, but I wouldn't care if any soccer match was moved to ESPNXXX in deference to practically anything else.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Oct 5, 2010 12:58:57 GMT -5
Hifi's dead on-that Isner match which was compelling drama of sport--was moved all over the damn place--but Euroleague soccer can't be moved? Bigger question I have--why does the Big 10 Network exist if they never put their games on it? They took up ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and why? Why do I have 5 channels dedicated to this damn league and they show 1, 2 games the most on a given weekend?
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 5, 2010 13:03:07 GMT -5
I'm a long-time soccer fan--played it, went to the World Cup in 1994, worked as a referee for five years, been a DC United season ticket holder for the past two (though the team's breathtaking awfulness has ensured that the streak doesn't reach three). As it happens, Manchester United is my European team of choice. I also grew up in south Florida and have been a Hurricanes fan my entire life. I should be uniquely qualified to offer perspective on ESPN's dilemma here. Fittingly, I had to work on Saturday and watch via Gametracker, so I had no idea this all happened. Will echo what was said before--the way soccer matches are scheduled for TV, a regular match should never go past the two hour allotment barring some strange occurrence such as the flooding delay. I'm happy Miami-FSU is in the 8:00pm slot Saturday though, when there won't be any potential of spillover affecting the TV coverage. Really, the people who probably have regular gripes are Big XII basketball fans. I'm sure they're constantly missing the start of those 9pm Big Monday games b/c GU and Nova are playing one of our 50-foul classics.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 5, 2010 14:14:20 GMT -5
I'm a long-time soccer fan--played it, went to the World Cup in 1994, worked as a referee for five years, been a DC United season ticket holder for the past two (though the team's breathtaking awfulness has ensured that the streak doesn't reach three). As it happens, Manchester United is my European team of choice. I also grew up in south Florida and have been a Hurricanes fan my entire life. I should be uniquely qualified to offer perspective on ESPN's dilemma here. Fittingly, I had to work on Saturday and watch via Gametracker, so I had no idea this all happened. Will echo what was said before--the way soccer matches are scheduled for TV, a regular match should never go past the two hour allotment barring some strange occurrence such as the flooding delay. I'm happy Miami-FSU is in the 8:00pm slot Saturday though, when there won't be any potential of spillover affecting the TV coverage. Really, the people who probably have regular gripes are Big XII basketball fans. I'm sure they're constantly missing the start of those 9pm Big Monday games b/c GU and Nova are playing one of our 50-foul classics. I pretty much agree. But one added thought: when and exactly where do they apply the "home team" exception? If Florida is playing Kentucky, for example, and the game is to follow the Ole Miss. -- Auburn game, there is some provision, that the home markets -- Lexington and Gainesville -- won't miss the any of their contest. But, at least last year, there was some confusion. I dont' remember which specific game, but there was one game that coverage was delayed a good 45 minutes because of overtime in the first contest. And here in Gainesville, some people were switched to the Gator game but others weren't. I know that sometimes this is simply a Cable customer/dish customer issue. But there was almost a random element that no one could figure out in at least one case. Getting back to last week, does anyone know whether ESPN delayed coverage of the football games in all markets or were at least the home markets given "their" game?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 5, 2010 14:39:08 GMT -5
Hifi's dead on-that Isner match which was compelling drama of sport--was moved all over the damn place--but Euroleague soccer can't be moved? Bigger question I have--why does the Big 10 Network exist if they never put their games on it? They took up ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and why? Why do I have 5 channels dedicated to this damn league and they show 1, 2 games the most on a given weekend? Now this part I agree with. Look, ESPN has contracts with all of these athletic leagues. I'd be willing to bet that none of the contracts stipulate "we'll show your events to their conclusion unless, you know, something better is coming up." Having said that, ESPN -- hell, DISNEY -- has so many options, that this should never really be a problem. What was playing on ESPN Classic or ESPN News last Saturday at noon? I don't know for sure, but I'd wager cash money it wasn't live sports. There is no reason that the beginning of one live sporting event can't be broadcast on another channel for a few minutes while another live sporting event is concluding. And all you need to do is have a little ticker announcing what alternate channel the game is on and everyone is happy. OK, maybe not everyone since there are some who might not get the more downticket ESPN channels, but the majority of sports enthusiasts -- at least the ones who would be infuriated that the beginning of a football game they wanted to see was not on -- probably do have it. In other words, I still have no problem with ESPN choosing to televise the conclusion of the Man U - Sunderland match, but they very easily could have made an accommodation for those who wanted to see the Miami game from the opening kickoff. Do we really need to add The Ocho at this point?
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 5, 2010 21:48:23 GMT -5
In other words, I still have no problem with ESPN choosing to televise the conclusion of the Man U - Sunderland match, but they very easily could have made an accommodation for those who wanted to see the Miami game from the opening kickoff. Do we really need to add The Ocho at this point? What would also help is getting more Internet providers on board with carrying ESPN3--which is a great service during college football season for all those random games out of nowhere, like Va Tech-JMU. Had I been at home instead of work on Saturday, I assume* I could have just fired up my laptop and taken in the ESPN3 feed of the Miami-Clemson game since my ISP carries it. Not as many people have that option yet as should be the case. (*This of course assumes that the ESPN2 producers/announcers go ahead and start doing the game at the kickoff)
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 5, 2010 23:53:48 GMT -5
As much as this will surprise some, I don't want to take this issue too far. But I do think that there are several questions, some of which, can be answered with simple protocal, but others of which require a degree of -- dare I say, common sense? In the case of soccer, which is highly predictable, then I think the predetermined decision is much easier. Sticking to it ... well, that's another issue entirely. But on the larger scale, while I totally understand the "ending being greater than the beginning" logic, is that really what should be the governing body? If not, then where do you draw the line?
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Oct 8, 2010 23:03:09 GMT -5
Whatever happened to AustinHoya breaking down each week's best games as well as the traditional rivalry games? He did a good job with that.
I loved finding out that so and so played for a bucket, ax, whatever...
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 8, 2010 23:51:13 GMT -5
Whatever happened to AustinHoya breaking down each week's best games as well as the traditional rivalry games? He did a good job with that. I loved finding out that so and so played for a bucket, ax, whatever... We could just start making some up... Auburn will be playing Kentucky for the Nickel-Plated Bucket of Manure. Meanwhile, Alabama and South Carolina will be duking it out for the coveted Most Seccessionist Trophy. And, of course, Michigan and Michigan State square off in their annual battle for the GDP of Detroit, valued at over $35.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Oct 9, 2010 16:32:07 GMT -5
Whatever happened to AustinHoya breaking down each week's best games as well as the traditional rivalry games? He did a good job with that. I haven't been able to post as regularly in recent months, so I decided to stop doing it. Perhaps it will return next week... Here's hoping S. Carolina can hang on in the second half. Although I'm rooting for the meteor today, the Aggies are hanging with Arkansas on the scoreboard at the half. Hogs are hurting themselves and should run away with this game in the second half, however.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 9, 2010 17:24:20 GMT -5
I loved finding out that so and so played for a bucket, ax, whatever... Wagner beat Georgetown in overtime today for the Copy of "Halo: Reach" from Redbox Trophy. They'll have to return it if the Hoyas win next year, or if they want to avoid late fees.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Oct 9, 2010 22:14:37 GMT -5
Florida--LSU will be down 4 with 8 seconds left, and ball at UF 1 yd line--Miles aka "The Hat" sends out his FG team--make kick--onside kick and get the ball-and then proceed to take a knee and end game for Florida. So LSU called a stupid and predictable fake FG in the 4th quarter, for which Florida was somehow absolutely unprepared. Yes, the kicker just picked up a loose ball and ran through your big boys for a first down. And how does Florida's esteemed HFC react? By making multiple "first down Florida" arm motions? Dude, your team just got burned by a FAKE FG COMING OUT OF A TIMEOUT. It wasn't even executed correctly by the offense! And you're celebrating what you think will be a technical reversal of the play? What a loser. The UF fans certainly deserve their coach, as the Gators players/coaches were booed early and often in the second half. Two national championships in the past five years, and hifi and his buddies still act like Arizona State fans. Sheesh.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Oct 9, 2010 22:20:28 GMT -5
Florida--LSU will be down 4 with 8 seconds left, and ball at UF 1 yd line--Miles aka "The Hat" sends out his FG team--make kick--onside kick and get the ball-and then proceed to take a knee and end game for Florida. So LSU called a stupid and predictable fake FG in the 4th quarter, for which Florida was somehow absolutely unprepared. Yes, the kicker just picked up a loose ball and ran through your big boys for a first down. And how does Florida's esteemed HFC react? By making multiple "first down Florida" arm motions? Dude, your team just got burned by a FAKE FG COMING OUT OF A TIMEOUT. It wasn't even executed correctly by the offense! And you're celebrating what you think will be a technical reversal of the play? What a loser. The UF fans certainly deserve their coach, as the Gators players/coaches were booed early and often in the second half. Two national championships in the past five years, and hifi and his buddies still act like Arizona State fans. Sheesh. how long until urban crier takes a knee because of his heart? EAT IT GATORS! HAHAHAHHAHAA
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 9, 2010 22:39:52 GMT -5
We were all LSU fans tonight. This board could not tolerate the Gators running the table.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Oct 12, 2010 12:35:03 GMT -5
Week 7 Picks for Games That Matter:
K-State over Kansas in the Sunflower Showdown for the Governor's Cup (Thursday) Cincinnati over Louisville for the Keg of Nails (Friday) Southern Miss over Memphis in the Black and Blue Bowl Houston over Rice for the Bayou Bucket Iowa over Michigan Nebraska over Texas in a Revenge Game Auburn over Arkansas U. Va. over N. Carolina in the South's Oldest Rivalry Ohio State over Wisconsin
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 12, 2010 16:46:46 GMT -5
Austin wrote:
So LSU called a stupid and predictable fake FG in the 4th quarter, for which Florida was somehow absolutely unprepared. Yes, the kicker just picked up a loose ball and ran through your big boys for a first down.
And how does Florida's esteemed HFC react? By making multiple "first down Florida" arm motions? Dude, your team just got burned by a FAKE FG COMING OUT OF A TIMEOUT. It wasn't even executed correctly by the offense! And you're celebrating what you think will be a technical reversal of the play? What a loser.
Man, what in the world causes your obvious and displaced venom? For the record, there was absolutely no excuse for not being ready for the fake field goal. Everyone in the stadium knew it was coming except the outside players on our kick block team. There was absolutely no excuse for allowing that. Their kicker did have the leg for the 53/54 yarder, but there was still little likelihood that he was going to try it. The defense should have been ready to contain on any outside attempt. If they wanted to try to go up and block it in the middle of the line, had they actually kicked it, then fine. A long kick like that will likely have a lower trajectory. But it was idiotic to attempt to make the block off the corner. That was just flat out poor coaching and poor execution. As for the call, I wasn't surprised at all that they didn't change the call, and in a neutral game, I would have upset had they done so. Even though I did think the ball went forward, it was only by a slight amount and because there wasn't a perfect angle, you couldn't say for 100% certainty, and that is basically what I thought at the time was the key to an overturn. I have never blamed that call or said that they blew it.
That being said, someone read the exact rule from the NCAA rulebook and there is a different point of view. In the section defining fumbles and passes, they define a "forward" pass as well as a "backward" pass. There is no such thing as a lateral in the NCAA rulebook. That is what we commonly use to describe a "pass" parallel to the line of scrimmage. In actuality though, that's not correct. Again, I haven't been blaming the call all along, but in retrospect, I should have. The NCAA rules specifically say, when defining the forward and backward passes, that if there is any doubt, then it is a forward pass. Given that it took them 8 minutes to review the play over and over, common sense would suggest that there was a degree of doubt. Additionally, it was quite clear that if the flip over the holder's shoulder didn't go forward, then it was about as close as possible. Now that I know that rule, it's pretty obvious that they did blow the call, as the rule essentially places the burden of proof on the passer. The ball must clearly be going backward or otherwise, it is going forwards. Given that clarification, is there anyone who can honestly say that the ball was clearly going backwards? Personally, I think they need to fix that rule. Because on the field, they called it a backward pass. To overturn that, they need conclusive evidence to the contrary. But the ruling words the burden of proof to be on the other foot.
Whatever! It's over and done with. Ironically, it really didn't matter anyway. All of our goals are still in front of us, except for the remotest of chances that we could have gotten back into the National Championship picture, and that wasn't happening anyway. So now we need to just take care of business, and make it to Atlanta and then win there.
Ambassador wrote:
We were all LSU fans tonight. This board could not tolerate the Gators running the table.
Someone wasn't paying attention. Florida had already lost and couldn't have run the table. LSU on the other hand, is now still undefeated. Methinks you were just tossing about barbs in my direction for no purpose other than to flame.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Oct 13, 2010 15:56:22 GMT -5
Week 7 Picks for Games That Matter: K-State over Kansas in the Sunflower Showdown for the Governor's Cup (Thursday) Cincinnati over Louisville for the Keg of Nails (Friday) Southern Miss over Memphis in the Black and Blue Bowl Houston over Rice for the Bayou Bucket Iowa over Michigan Nebraska over Texas in a Revenge Game Auburn over Arkansas U. Va. over N. Carolina in the South's Oldest Rivalry Ohio State over Wisconsin Man I've been missing these posts!
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Oct 15, 2010 22:57:40 GMT -5
Keg of Nails stays with the Bearcats
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Oct 17, 2010 22:41:24 GMT -5
Florida, Ohio State, & Michigan all lost.
I'll take that.
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