Spill Baby Spill!

[EasyEd]

Jun 16, 2010 9:18:11 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Jun 15, 2010 19:00:39 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

The real culprit is the U.S. government that will not allow drilling on land or in shallow water, forcing deep water drilling.

As someone else said, if the U.S. will not allow U.S. companies to drill, foreign countries will do so in international waters near our shores and there is nothing we can do about it.

Lastly, Congressional hearings are a farce by both parties.

Aah, yes, that evil US government, forcing BP to ignore their own people in claiming things were dangerous. If we just let them do what they wanted anywhere, nothing like this would ever happen!

It's like when the Indian Government caused the Union Carbide chemical explosion -- because if they could just let the chemicals go where ever, they never would have built up!

Amazing how you referenced my post but ignored what I said. First, we would not be drilling so deep in the gulf if the U.S. government had allowed BP and others to drill nearer to land in the Atlantic, Pacific or Gulf, or on land in the U.S. If there were a spill close-in in shallow water or on land itself, it would be relatively easy to stop the leak.

Second, foreign companies are going to drill off the coast of our country - and some have started - and our government will have no say on their safety or for what to do in the event of a spill.

Third, members of Congress insulting and trashing BP and other oil executives - as well as reps of other industries it chooses to bring before them - does absolutely no good but it gives the Congressmen or Senators air time to stroke their egos and, hopefully, look good to the home folks. The same goes for presidential speeches.

And, lastly, people may not like it and wish it were not so but our country will be dependent on oil for many years into the future. If we don't get that oil we're going to have to get it from foreign states who don't necesarily have our good near the top of their priorities.

[TC]

Jun 16, 2010 14:12:25 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

And, lastly, people may not like it and wish it were not so but our country will be dependent on oil for many years into the future. If we don't get that oil we're going to have to get it from foreign states who don't necesarily have our good near the top of their priorities.

Summary : Sarah Palin wants her "small" government to drill into the backyards of people who've decided they don't want shallow water oil rigs screwing up their coastline.

[jerseyhoya34]

There would be severe collateral consequences of drilling along the LA coastline and in the marsh/wetlands, which are regarded as a significant factor that limited the impact of Katrina. The following is an important look at hurricane risk/wetlands: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9118570/

[kchoya]

Jun 16, 2010 14:45:48 GMT -5 TC said:

Jun 16, 2010 14:12:25 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

And, lastly, people may not like it and wish it were not so but our country will be dependent on oil for many years into the future. If we don't get that oil we're going to have to get it from foreign states who don't necesarily have our good near the top of their priorities.

Summary : Sarah Palin wants her "small" government to drill into the backyards of people who've decided they don't want shallow water oil rigs screwing up their coastline.

Summary: every time a conservative or Republican mentions the word government, they are betraying their calls for smaller, better government and are being hypocritical.

[Boz]

Jun 16, 2010 14:53:07 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

There would be severe collateral consequences of drilling along the LA coastline and in the marsh/wetlands, which are regarded as a significant factor that limited the impact of Katrina. The following is an important look at hurricane risk/wetlands: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9118570/

It's a good thing then that we have two other huge continental shelf regions where there are lots of known deposits of oil and natural gas. And where maybe you don't have to go 5 miles deep just to reach the ocean floor.

Obviously, you have to drill where the deposits are. But with diagonal and horizontal drilling technologies, there's really no reason that drilling rigs have to be as far as 41 miles off of a coastline, even Louisiana's.

(They also don't have to be within eyesight of a coastline, NIMBYs.)

[jerseyhoya34]

I am not sure that the problem here is deep water drilling but, rather, how BP attempted to drill in deep water and their disregard of regulations regarding same. If you look around, somehow others have figured out how to do it safely, including, to date, the Chinese.

Now, the deep water drilling is more difficult, I think, to stop/cleanup if there is an error of this kind. Maybe that justifies bringing it closer to the shore.

With Louisiana, you also have to contend with identifying what the coastline really is. Once you get much south of New Orleans, you're dealing with bogs/peninsulas/marshlands/archipelagos and the like. Some are also protected by law. You also have to deal with oyster beds, fisheries, fishing grounds, clam beds, and the like. Does that mean 41 miles, I am not sure, but it probably does not mean 1 or 2 either. (Yet it apparently does - www.cccarto.com/platforms/platforms1.pdf). These rigs sure seem to be littered like rabbit turds off the coast to a degree that you really have to question what BP was doing when others have not had so much as a public incident in recent memory.

As a factual matter, there are also near-shoreline rigs in the area. There are some visible from I-10 around Beaumont IIRC, for example. Consider also this map: www.cccarto.com/platforms/platforms3.pdf

Maybe there are other areas where nearshore drilling has not occurred and there is oil to be drilled, but the Gulf Coast does not appear to be one of them. So, the Palin position appears to be wrong, as usual, on the facts. That there are other such areas is likely a nonstarter politically. I don't think you could convince anyone right now to live within 1 mile of a rig or to permit a rig to be constructed within 1 mile of his home.

Spirit - if you ever were on a rig, perhaps you could delight us with a story of a rig initiation or two so we could get another flavor of safety compliance gone awry.

[SFHoya99]

Jun 16, 2010 14:12:25 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

Jun 16, 2010 9:18:11 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Aah, yes, that evil US government, forcing BP to ignore their own people in claiming things were dangerous. If we just let them do what they wanted anywhere, nothing like this would ever happen!

It's like when the Indian Government caused the Union Carbide chemical explosion -- because if they could just let the chemicals go where ever, they never would have built up!

Amazing how you referenced my post but ignored what I said. First, we would not be drilling so deep in the gulf if the U.S. government had allowed BP and others to drill nearer to land in the Atlantic, Pacific or Gulf, or on land in the U.S. If there were a spill close-in in shallow water or on land itself, it would be relatively easy to stop the leak.

Second, foreign companies are going to drill off the coast of our country - and some have started - and our government will have no say on their safety or for what to do in the event of a spill.

Third, members of Congress insulting and trashing BP and other oil executives - as well as reps of other industries it chooses to bring before them - does absolutely no good but it gives the Congressmen or Senators air time to stroke their egos and, hopefully, look good to the home folks. The same goes for presidential speeches.

And, lastly, people may not like it and wish it were not so but our country will be dependent on oil for many years into the future. If we don't get that oil we're going to have to get it from foreign states who don't necesarily have our good near the top of their priorities.

The US Government was asking for it, the way she dressed like that!

[AustinHoya03]

Jun 16, 2010 15:38:04 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

As a factual matter, there are also near-shoreline rigs in the area. There are some visible from I-10 around Beaumont IIRC, for example. Consider also this map: www.cccarto.com/platforms/platforms3.pdf

Maybe there are other areas where nearshore drilling has not occurred and there is oil to be drilled, but the Gulf Coast does not appear to be one of them.

As someone who has taken a few trips to the Texas coast can attest, oil rigs are easily visible from popular beaches such as Port Aransas (though I don't really know if those qualify as "shallow water" rigs).

There are showers on the beach at the Port Royal hotel asking guests to wash off any tar before returning to their rooms.

[hoyainspirit]

Jun 16, 2010 15:38:04 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

Spirit - if you ever were on a rig, perhaps you could delight us with a story of a rig initiation or two so we could get another flavor of safety compliance gone awry.

Sorry, Ambassador, no juicy safety/compliance stories to tell. Once, however, a roughneck dropped a wrench down the wellbore, requiring that the entire drill sting be removed and the tool fished out. Round trips are expensive, because no progress is made on the well. This well was already behind schedule and over budget. The Exxon engineer went nuts, wanted the poor guy fired. Fortunately he worked for the drilling contractor, not Exxon. The contractor refused Exxon's demand.

[jerseyhoya34]

Today's hearing included a direct apology from Rep. Barton to Hayward - a British national - for our President. Others have criticized the escrow account - an interesting perspective in light of the problems that Gulf fishermen now face and will face for years. Perhaps Obama has done too much.

This debate is beginning to look like the squirrel-like perspective that Obama is either devoid of substance or, alternatively, the first Communist-fascist in world history who was taught by Pol Pot in an Indonesian madrassa before deciding that it was not extreme enough.

[TC]

Jun 17, 2010 10:28:57 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

Today's hearing included a direct apology from Rep. Barton to Hayward - a British national - for our President.

On American soil no less! I'm sure Elvado will be outraged.

[jerseyhoya34]

Indeed, but, in fairness, I am not sure he is a BPpeaser.

[JohnJacquesLayup]

What do the British do worse, drill or goalkeep?

[SirSaxa]

SURPRISE!!! Who could've guessed this one!
See below:

Excerpt
Barton is the biggest recipient of oil and gas industry campaign contributions in the House of Representatives, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.

Its data showed that Barton has collected $1,447,880 from political action committees and individuals connected with the oil and gas industry since 1989.

Lawmaker to BP Chief: I'm Sorry You Were Victimized

[DanMcQ]

I'm too lazy to search to see if this has already been linked here.

tinyurl.com/3anxxwg/

[Boz]

Jun 17, 2010 11:08:59 GMT -5 TC said:

Jun 17, 2010 10:28:57 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

Today's hearing included a direct apology from Rep. Barton to Hayward - a British national - for our President.

On American soil no less! I'm sure Elvado will be outraged.

FWIW, I haven't read all the details, but my first reaction is that I think it's ridiculous for Barton to say such a thing in a public hearing.

If he wants to offer a private apology to Hayward if he thought he or BP was mistreated, then fine.

Shouldn't have been done on the record.

BTW, congrats to JohnJacquesLayup for the post of the thread! ;D

[TC]

Barton's top contributor : Anadarko, a 25% partner in Deepwater Horizon

www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/06/top-donor-to-barton-is-partner-of-bp-on.html

[TBird41]

Jun 17, 2010 12:05:20 GMT -5 JohnJacquesLayup said:

What do the British do worse, drill or goalkeep?

Dentistry.

[SirSaxa]

Republicans respond to Barton's Comments

GOP can’t quite get its message right on BP

Excerpt
Rep. Jeff Miller (R-Fla.), whose Pensacola district is among the most affected areas in the Gulf by the oil spill, condemned Barton for apologizing to BP CEO Tony Hayward during a committee meeting on Thursday.

“I condemn Mr. Barton’s statement. Mr. Barton’s remarks are out of touch with this tragedy and I feel his comments call into question his judgment and ability to serve in a leadership on the Energy and Commerce Committee,” Miller said in a statement. “He should step down as ranking member of the Committee.”


Bachman

Excerpt
Conservative Republican Representative [and well know whack job who wanted to investigate Congress a while back for being "anti-American"] Michele Bachmann of Minnesota was quoted as telling the Heritage Foundation think tank Tuesday that the escrow account was a "redistribution-of-wealth fund."


Boehner, Cantor, and Pence: Barton was 'wrong'

Excerpt
The top three members of the Republican leadership were forced to respond after Barton apologized to BP CEO Tony Hayward in a hearing for the government's pressure on the company to establish a $20 billion account in escrow to pay out damages related to the oil spill.

"The oil spill in the Gulf is this nation’s largest natural disaster and stopping the leak and cleaning up the region is our top priority. Congressman Barton’s statements this morning were wrong," the three said in a joint statement. "BP itself has acknowledged that responsibility for the economic damages lies with them and has offered an initial pledge of $20 billion dollars for that purpose."

[Boz]

All well and good, but has the President or the party in power gotten the message right yet either?



And Barton has issued a retraction.

Michelle Bachmann hasn't and probably never will.