Strasburg the real deal

[SSHoya]

Yeah, it's only the Pirates but struck out 14, gave up two runs (on a missed change up resulting in 2 run homer) on four hits in seven innings. Most strikeouts in major league debut since JR Richard in 1971 with 15.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

yeah he did quite well, but we already knew he could blow away AAA hitters.

[SFHoya99]

I hadn't seen him pitch since one game in college. His stuff is beyond filthy. That was Kerry Wood-20 K game / Nolan Ryan when he was on filthy.

His curveball doesn't quite have Kerry's 12-6 movement but it has some lateral movement which might make it better. And he was putting it whereever he needed it.

I mistook his change-up for a slider -- there's not a ton of lateral movement but sick drop and his changeup clocked in at an average speed of 90! 90!

[hoyarooter]

14 Ks and 0 BBs, not too shabby. Also unprecedented.

[SSHoya]

HSB, agreed that Pirates are one of the weakest hitting teams in the majors, however, as I heard one pundit state, that may be true but what other major league pitcher is wracking up 14 SOs against the Pirates? Granted, once Strasburg's "game" gets known around the league, it'll be more difficult for him to rack up these kind of numbers but he has clearly lived up to the hype thus far. In the considered opinion of many suggest, barring injury, he is the pheenom, as advertised.

[RDF]

Guy's mechanics are so superior to Kerry Wood it's not even funny. So much better command and nice easy delivery. Also didn't have Texas HS coaches aka RUBES having him pitch both ends of a DH after he was selected in 1st Round--so Kerry's arm was on fast track to surgery.

[EasyEd]

One game does not a career make.

[hoyarooter]

Jun 9, 2010 15:56:36 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

One game does not a career make.

It does if you're Bobo Holloman.

[SFHoya99]

RDF - Strasburg was definitely helped by not being all that great in HS and having a HOFer in Tony Gwynn at SDSU who wouldn't put his winning % ahead of Strasburg's future. I'm not mechanics guru -- I was simply comparing his stuff to Wood's. I'd say SS's are better -- though the curveball isn't as pretty.

Ed - No, and it was the Pirates. But his stuff is sick, sick, sick. Barring injury, this guy is going to be amazing. There's too much velocity, too much movement and too much control.

That was the impressive thing about the start -- not that he dominated, but how he did it.

[DFW HOYA]

Jun 8, 2010 20:06:32 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Yeah, it's only the Pirates but struck out 14, gave up two runs (on a missed change up resulting in 2 run homer) on four hits in seven innings. Most strikeouts in major league debut since JR Richard in 1971 with 15.

J.R. Richard, what a talent: once struck out 313 batters in a single season. And such a tragic end, too. He complained about vision problems and numbness, and the team didn't believe him. One night in warm-ups, Richard suffered a major stroke on the field and nearly died. Absent a pension, he was homeless for a few years before turning things around.

[GIGAFAN99]

He's like everyone else with awesome stuff. It's about how healthy stays. As far as "mechanics" go, this is about as approximate as a science gets. After Wood, I remember Mark Prior wasn't going to have those problems. 97 surgeries later, strangely everyone is revising that.

One reason is, "mechanics" always makes it sound like it's just that; machine-like. It's not. Start #24 is different than start start #1 is much different than start #150. How his mechanics hold up is anybody's guess.

Until then, enjoy. No matter what happened to Doc Gooden afterwards, baseball fans will always have 1985.

[jgalt]

And people wonder why a lot of people dont like baseball? A guy has an amazing debut but no one is allowed to be happy let alone hyperbolic? Its much more fun to say that he is a God than "oh it was just the pirates." Let it be, no one gets hurt because bob Costas compare Stras to Walter Johnson.

There arent any players in today's game that people will buy tickets to a terrible team just to see him play; Strasburg is that guy and he is incredibly fun to watch. Even people who dont watch sports (aka my mom) watched him play and could tell that this was something crazy special.

Can we all just put the blankets in the dryer and have some fun for a little while?

[SFHoya99]

Jun 9, 2010 21:28:44 GMT -5 GIGAFAN99 said:

He's like everyone else with awesome stuff. It's about how healthy stays. As far as "mechanics" go, this is about as approximate as a science gets. After Wood, I remember Mark Prior wasn't going to have those problems. 97 surgeries later, strangely everyone is revising that.

One reason is, "mechanics" always makes it sound like it's just that; machine-like. It's not. Start #24 is different than start start #1 is much different than start #150. How his mechanics hold up is anybody's guess.

Until then, enjoy. No matter what happened to Doc Gooden afterwards, baseball fans will always have 1985.

While you're right about the health/mechanics aspect -- when Prior came out, he had "perfect" mechanics, and after he got hurt there's been a lot of revisionist history -- the stuff isn't the same.

Strasburg's movement and velocity are better than Prior'. Halladay's. Lincecum's. Gooden's. Wood's. Maddux's. Clemens'.

The only guy comparable in pure stuff right now is Ubaldo Jimenez. The only guys I can think of historically are players like Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan -- and RJ never had a good third pitch. Pedro at his peak didn't have the fastball, but he had four plus=plus pitches.

That's what has some of us excited.

Does that mean he'll be better? No -- command is huge. Just look at Jimenez -- he's 26 now and finally really good. Johnson took until he was almost 30. Ryan had great and merely decent years because of it. Meanwhile players like Maddux can dominate with very good stuff and amazing command or players like Lincecum or Johan Santana have very good stuff and one dominant pitch and they get better results.

But by all accounts, Strasburg's command is very good for his age. His upside is RIDICULOUS, and that's exciting. It's LeBron James upside. People still say that Nolan Ryan was the "best pitcher ever" but he wasn't the most effective because his control (i.e. walks) and command (putting the ball where you want) weren't good enough.

No think if Ryan didn't have those issues.

[kchoya]

Jun 9, 2010 15:56:36 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

One game does not a career make.

What a grump. Are you ever happy about anything?

[hifigator]

From a developmental stage, Strasburg has more poise and seems to be more comfortable than almost any his age and certainly any with similar "experience." As for his "stuff," there are very very few who have anything similar. He has that 98 Mph four seamer, the 94 Mph 2 seamer and excellent control of both of them. Then he has a sick 90-91 Mph changeup that drops off the table and a very deceptive curve ball that "barely moves" coming in there in the mid-upper 80's. Yes, it's only one game and against the Pirates no less. But the optimism and hype are certainly deserved so far.

[SFHoya99]

His two-seamer actually hits pretty the same velocity as his four-seamer. He didn't throw any fastballs at 94 in his last start, for example. The only real difference is the amount of "rise." Maybe a bit more tail on the two-seamer, but actually it's kind of odd. Usually the two is slower and has more horizontal movement.

I have no idea why you think his curve barely moves. It's not Zito/Wood but it has some pretty good vertical movement and actually may be more nasty because it's horizontal movement is more apparent than someone like Zito's.

[williambraskyiii]

I think Hifi was was making light of the fact that people are saying his curveball doesn't has as much action on it compared to others. What Hifi doesn't seem to comprehend is when to properly use quotation marks.

[HoyaFanNY]

he hung the curve a few times, but the fastball and change are awesome. he also throws a sinker i guess. great performance but i wonder how much things will change when teams see him a second and third time. not sure he was in AA or AAA long enough to pitch against teams multiple times.

i think the big thing with any young pitcher is learning to adjust when hitters start figuring you out and being able to pitch effectively when you don't feel 100% physically.

[SirSaxa]

Very impressive debut!
And GREAT for the Nationals. They desperately need some excitement.

While many of us posters (especially older ones) are aware of guys like David Clyde and Mark Fidrych and others who looked so great early, that doesn't stop this poster from sharing the excitement and enthusiasm for a bright new baseball star. Clearly, he has the potential to be awesome. I wish him all the best! If he can stay healthy, who knows what he can accomplish!

[GIGAFAN99]

Jun 10, 2010 10:40:52 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Jun 9, 2010 21:28:44 GMT -5 GIGAFAN99 said:

He's like everyone else with awesome stuff. It's about how healthy stays. As far as "mechanics" go, this is about as approximate as a science gets. After Wood, I remember Mark Prior wasn't going to have those problems. 97 surgeries later, strangely everyone is revising that.

One reason is, "mechanics" always makes it sound like it's just that; machine-like. It's not. Start #24 is different than start start #1 is much different than start #150. How his mechanics hold up is anybody's guess.

Until then, enjoy. No matter what happened to Doc Gooden afterwards, baseball fans will always have 1985.

While you're right about the health/mechanics aspect -- when Prior came out, he had "perfect" mechanics, and after he got hurt there's been a lot of revisionist history -- the stuff isn't the same.

Strasburg's movement and velocity are better than Prior'. Halladay's. Lincecum's. Gooden's. Wood's. Maddux's. Clemens'.

The only guy comparable in pure stuff right now is Ubaldo Jimenez. The only guys I can think of historically are players like Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan -- and RJ never had a good third pitch. Pedro at his peak didn't have the fastball, but he had four plus=plus pitches.

That's what has some of us excited.

Does that mean he'll be better? No -- command is huge. Just look at Jimenez -- he's 26 now and finally really good. Johnson took until he was almost 30. Ryan had great and merely decent years because of it. Meanwhile players like Maddux can dominate with very good stuff and amazing command or players like Lincecum or Johan Santana have very good stuff and one dominant pitch and they get better results.

But by all accounts, Strasburg's command is very good for his age. His upside is RIDICULOUS, and that's exciting. It's LeBron James upside. People still say that Nolan Ryan was the "best pitcher ever" but he wasn't the most effective because his control (i.e. walks) and command (putting the ball where you want) weren't good enough.

No think if Ryan didn't have those issues.

I think coming around the bend, Gooden is the closest in upside. He was a baby at 20 when everything that left his hand was the right pitch and clearly he had no idea what he was doing. This kid is a pretty mature pitcher so it is a combination of pure stuff and experience.

Now we'll see how long he fools people. Professional hitters are really good at this. And if they see a pitch coming out of his hand they should lay off, they'll work more counts. That's what these guys do for a living. Your command is only as good as the guy at the plate too.

But yeah, he's an ace's ace any day and he's fun to watch. He'll be less fun against the Phillies, but any other time for sure.