TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jun 16, 2010 10:16:18 GMT -5
More importantly, what's the appropriate soccer (fooball) term for choke? I think the Spanish term is the one I'm looking for.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 16, 2010 10:31:14 GMT -5
I guess my problem with it is my suspicion (confirmed above) that a certain class of people in this country would say "boots" rather than "cleats" for exactly that reason- to distance themselves from "arrogant" Americans, presumably the norm who would you know, use common nouns they know instead of foreign ones. I feel like often these words are used to show how worldly they are in a rather silly way by using words they almost hope confuse casual American sports fans. The effete European soccer snob who says pitch and boots is partially responsible for what I admit is a somewhat xenophobic mainstream ignorance about soccer. I don't mean to hijack a perfectly good rant, but you really hit upon what should be a major concern for the powers-that-be in U.S. Soccer.... why is there this pervasive insistence that to be a real soccer fan you have to be a Apple-worshipping, Prius-driving, Obama-loving post-modern urban metrosexual? I swear soccer is intentionally trying to minimize its marketability. In many ways, soccer seems like an indie band that its current fans will only like as long as it's safely outside of the mainstream: once ordinary Bud-swilling pickup-driving patriotic Amercans with real jobs start actively enjoying the sport, it'll lose its current cachet and all the hipsters will scramble toward cricket or rugby so they can maintain their own poseur cred. To expand on that Rossyln, the soccer fans in this country who think they are too good for MLS- they are the biggest reason why MLS isn't a much better and richer and more respectable league. Although in my opinion MLS has absolutely passed a point of no return and would be a major BUY if it were a stock in my opinion. I wasn't so sure 3 years ago. All of the people who think the Beckham move was a bust because he hasn't done squat on the FIELD are not paying attention. MLS in world soccer respectability has made a giant leap since that deal and there's no turning back now. MLS is no longer an actual punchline in the UK soccer press. A lot of that is on Becks. (Howard and Dempsey did a lot for this too I think.) But the fact that every 35 year-old (admittidely fading) superstar in Europe publically says he'd consider playing his last 2-3 years in MLS- that is thanks to Becks. And there is no way to overstate how much that did and does to bring MLS globally resepect.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 16, 2010 10:36:57 GMT -5
More importantly, what's the appropriate soccer (fooball) term for choke? I think the Spanish term is the one I'm looking for. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's: Ayyyyyyyyy!!! Un gato malodoro!!!! ;D How many posts have they hit? I've lost count. (Wait, I think at least one of those was the Swiss. I can't tell. These Europeans, they all look alike.)
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jun 16, 2010 10:39:25 GMT -5
I guess my problem with it is my suspicion (confirmed above) that a certain class of people in this country would say "boots" rather than "cleats" for exactly that reason- to distance themselves from "arrogant" Americans, presumably the norm who would you know, use common nouns they know instead of foreign ones. I feel like often these words are used to show how worldly they are in a rather silly way by using words they almost hope confuse casual American sports fans. The effete European soccer snob who says pitch and boots is partially responsible for what I admit is a somewhat xenophobic mainstream ignorance about soccer. I don't mean to hijack a perfectly good rant, but you really hit upon what should be a major concern for the powers-that-be in U.S. Soccer.... why is there this pervasive insistence that to be a real soccer fan you have to be a Apple-worshipping, Prius-driving, Obama-loving post-modern urban metrosexual? I swear soccer is intentionally trying to minimize its marketability. In many ways, soccer seems like an indie band that its current fans will only like as long as it's safely outside of the mainstream: once ordinary Bud-swilling pickup-driving patriotic Amercans with real jobs start actively enjoying the sport, it'll lose its current cachet and all the hipsters will scramble toward cricket or rugby so they can maintain their own poseur cred. I think you have this backwards. I have yet to hear an American soccer fan argue that you have love Barack Obama in order to enjoy the sport but I have heard plenty of your beloved real 'mericans mock the game because for its foreign-ness and its supposed lack of physical toughness that makes in somehow un-American. It seems to me that people who traveled abroad and been willing to partake in the local culture abroad are those who are most interested in soccer - I admit I had little interest in the game until I studied in Ireland my junior year, but got caught up in following Manchester United's historic 1999 treble while I was there and have been considerably more interested ever since. I know that among my friends, those who studied abroad are far more likely to follow soccer than those who did not. It was also in that environment that I first learned the terminology, and when speaking with other English-speakers who are fans of soccer, I use their idiom. It comes more naturally that way. Then again, I did spend most of my day yesterday trying to order the iPhone 4, so maybe my opinion doesn't count.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 16, 2010 10:47:02 GMT -5
I have heard plenty of your beloved real 'mericans mock the game because for its foreign-ness and its supposed lack of physical toughness that makes in somehow un-American. Hey, I love the sport, I really enjoy watching it (and that includes MLS, along with the higher profile leagues like EPL, and of course the international competitions). But you do have to admit, there's a fair amount of whining. (And this from me, who loves the Azzurri). For every Tim Howard, it seems like there are 10 Cristiano Ronaldos. Hell, they whine almost as much as NBA players. ;D
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guru
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Post by guru on Jun 16, 2010 10:56:10 GMT -5
got caught up in following Manchester United's historic 1999 treble Treble?!?!?! Enjoy dodging the spittle from the rant thebin is about to rain down upon you.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 16, 2010 10:57:15 GMT -5
It seems to me that people who traveled abroad and been willing to partake in the local culture abroad are those who are most interested in soccer - I admit I had little interest in the game until I studied in Ireland my junior year, but got caught up in following Manchester United's historic 1999 treble while I was there and have been considerably more interested ever since. I know that among my friends, those who studied abroad are far more likely to follow soccer than those who did not. If that is the case, soccer is doomed in the US, inasmuch as 75% of Americans do not own a passport and few if any can afford to take off more than 2 or 3 days from work to go on any vacation, much less a trip to another continent. The trend in the workforce is for less, not more vacation time.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 16, 2010 10:57:35 GMT -5
I guess my problem with it is my suspicion (confirmed above) that a certain class of people in this country would say "boots" rather than "cleats" for exactly that reason- to distance themselves from "arrogant" Americans, presumably the norm who would you know, use common nouns they know instead of foreign ones. I feel like often these words are used to show how worldly they are in a rather silly way by using words they almost hope confuse casual American sports fans. The effete European soccer snob who says pitch and boots is partially responsible for what I admit is a somewhat xenophobic mainstream ignorance about soccer. I don't mean to hijack a perfectly good rant, but you really hit upon what should be a major concern for the powers-that-be in U.S. Soccer.... why is there this pervasive insistence that to be a real soccer fan you have to be a Apple-worshipping, Prius-driving, Obama-loving post-modern urban metrosexual? I swear soccer is intentionally trying to minimize its marketability. In many ways, soccer seems like an indie band that its current fans will only like as long as it's safely outside of the mainstream: once ordinary Bud-swilling pickup-driving patriotic Amercans with real jobs start actively enjoying the sport, it'll lose its current cachet and all the hipsters will scramble toward cricket or rugby so they can maintain their own poseur cred. You appear to be referring to working-class white America. MLS fans are about 40% Hispanic. Maybe you should change that to "Tecate-swilling." What's a "real job," by the way? I thought I had one.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jun 16, 2010 10:58:55 GMT -5
Generally speaking, this WC has been fantastic (or, dare I say, brilliant) thus far. The goal margins make for exciting soccer particularly at the end of games, and I think we'll see some desperation in the third round of games in many of the pools just to get 3 points instead of 1 - teams with 1 point after 2 games may still move on with something like a 2-0 victory in the 3rd game.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 16, 2010 11:02:31 GMT -5
Whatever you call it - -Pitch, Field, elitist sport for coastal snobs, Latino-American favorite, shoes, boots, cleats, Switzerland just got a HUGE upset over Spain 1-0.
Yes, the Swiss goal was a bit of a cluster #&$^!, but it counts. And the Spaniards got none!
Where are the Swiss Cowbells!
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Jun 16, 2010 11:03:42 GMT -5
We could be headed for a Brazil-Spain matchup in the 1st rd of the knockout phase.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 16, 2010 11:08:24 GMT -5
got caught up in following Manchester United's historic 1999 treble Treble?!?!?! Enjoy dodging the spittle from the rant thebin is about to rain down upon you. guru- Try to pay attention before you try (meakly) to bait me. There is no common American English version of Treble. He's safe from any and all linguistic invective.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jun 16, 2010 11:23:03 GMT -5
Treble?!?!?! Enjoy dodging the spittle from the rant thebin is about to rain down upon you. guru- Try to pay attention before you try (meakly) to bait me. There is no common American English version of Treble. He's safe from any and all linguistic invective. Baiting? Just poking a little good-natured fun. However, if it had been bait, I have to say you took it pretty easily.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 16, 2010 12:49:50 GMT -5
We could be headed for a Brazil-Spain matchup in the 1st rd of the knockout phase. You could be right. Spain could not even make it out of the group. Honduras lost three of its four best offensive players before today's game, so muy guess would be that Honduras will not get a point the rest of the way. So that's three points for the other teams. I thought the game would be a tie since Spain hasn't scored on the Swiss since 1994 and the Swiss are tough and always pack it in against Spain. It's exactly what Spain does not like. But, I put Spain as 1st in group in my bracket because of their roster, Switzerland lost its best offensive player before the tournament, offensive problems for Honduras and Chile's top scorer has been doubtful to play and did not play today. It will be another interesting set of matches in this group.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 16, 2010 12:55:11 GMT -5
Generally speaking, this WC has been fantastic (or, dare I say, brilliant) thus far. The goal margins make for exciting soccer particularly at the end of games, and I think we'll see some desperation in the third round of games in many of the pools just to get 3 points instead of 1 - teams with 1 point after 2 games may still move on with something like a 2-0 victory in the 3rd game. It makes for an awesome first round. After the first set of matches, only Australia looked completely out of place (or was it that Germany is the class of the tournament?). We'll find out after the next set because Australia is not as bad as it looked vs. Germany.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 16, 2010 12:57:31 GMT -5
FIFA has wanted a Spain-Brazil final since before the Confederations Cup '09. The US spoiled it last year by beating Spain and playing Brazil for the championship. They're probably thinking WTF just about now.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 16, 2010 20:50:34 GMT -5
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 17, 2010 2:10:44 GMT -5
To expand on that Rossyln, the soccer fans in this country who think they are too good for MLS- they are the biggest reason why MLS isn't a much better and richer and more respectable league. Although in my opinion MLS has absolutely passed a point of no return and would be a major BUY if it were a stock in my opinion. I wasn't so sure 3 years ago. All of the people who think the Beckham move was a bust because he hasn't done squat on the FIELD are not paying attention. MLS in world soccer respectability has made a giant leap since that deal and there's no turning back now. MLS is no longer an actual punchline in the UK soccer press. A lot of that is on Becks. (Howard and Dempsey did a lot for this too I think.) But the fact that every 35 year-old (admittidely fading) superstar in Europe publically says he'd consider playing his last 2-3 years in MLS- that is thanks to Becks. And there is no way to overstate how much that did and does to bring MLS globally resepect. MLS keeps making modest strides and it's in a decent place right now--16 franchises with 3 more already on the way (Portland, Vancouver, Montreal), average attendance for the leading non-Seattle teams is in the high teens, and more soccer-specific stadiums. I'd agree that the high-profile foreign designated players like Beckham, Blanco, Ljundberg, etc...even if certain ones don't have tremendous on-field success, certainly increase the visibility of the product. I see bin's first point slightly differently. Not sure it's American soccer snobs looking down on/ignoring MLS per se. I think Bill Simmons* among others makes a good observation--American sports fans want to see the best athletes/teams in the world that a sport has to offer. For MLB, NHL, and NBA...the US is home to the best league with the best athletes from around the world. For MLS, that isn't the case and won't ever be. (*His embrace of soccer has its pluses and minuses...he's quite sincere about it, but sometimes prone to over-simplistic arguments--the "basketball player X would dominate as a soccer player right now!" theory completely ignores the tremendous amount of skill required to play at an elite level in soccer, or any sport for that matter.) That being said, MLS has certainly succeeded in building a core group of talent for the National Team...what is it, 19 of 23 MNT players have played in MLS? And hopefully this fact and some success in this year's World Cup reinforces the point that there is in fact some pretty good young, domestic talent in MLS. One positive trend is more chances to see the "best soccer has to offer" with ESPN televising Premier League and La Liga and Fox Soccer Channel being carried more widely. The top Euro clubs are also now regularly doing summer exhibition tours in the US (including matches vs MLS teams) that draw very well. The more exposure, the better. To another poster's point, I am convinced that college study abroad programs are the #1 reason behind the popularity of FC Barcelona in the United States.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 17, 2010 2:23:54 GMT -5
Generally speaking, this WC has been fantastic (or, dare I say, brilliant) thus far. The goal margins make for exciting soccer particularly at the end of games, and I think we'll see some desperation in the third round of games in many of the pools just to get 3 points instead of 1 - teams with 1 point after 2 games may still move on with something like a 2-0 victory in the 3rd game. It makes for an awesome first round. After the first set of matches, only Australia looked completely out of place (or was it that Germany is the class of the tournament?). We'll find out after the next set because Australia is not as bad as it looked vs. Germany. Preface this by saying that due to my work schedule I've been mostly watching 2 of 3 games per day sped up on DVR, so a lot of the nuance is lost. But...kind of feel like the Switzerland upset today was needed. IDK if the low scores for me = more excitement. Never really felt like Honduras was gonna equalize against Chile, ya know? It's not exactly cynical anti-football going on, but teams are definitely playing a more disciplined, defensive brand of soccer in this World Cup so far. For me, so far the best games have been in no order USA-England, Mexico-South Africa (great atmosphere and the last 15-20 minutes where both teams basically went for the win and constantly attacked and counter-attacked were great), Switzerland-Spain, and Brazil-North Korea (b/c everyone assumed it would be 4-0 and it was interesting seeing how long Brazil would take to break through). That it took until Day 5 for the first game where the losing team scored is a bit problematic. What'll be interesting is if we see a Round of 16 match like Spain-Brazil (which looks very possible now). Italy and England each tied the second best team in their group in the first game and are potentially in a goal differential race now to avoid second place. Not entirely out of the question (though IDK if I'd predict it) to see a Netherlands-Italy or England-Germany Round of 16 game.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 17, 2010 7:38:16 GMT -5
Teams play to their strenghts. Take for example the Swiss. In recent history, they have been a very defensive team. If they're facing a team with offesive firepower, they'll have 6-8 players defending and wait for the counterattack opportunities. Plus, before the WC, they lost their captain and all-time goal scoring leader, A. Frei. They won, but they would have been happy with a tie and get more points against the less ranked opponents in the group.
My guess is that Slovenia, a team with not that many offensive options, will pack the defense and wait for the counterattack hopefully catching the US sleeping or too forward. Here one of my problems with the new ball and the altitude. Players are having problems keeping the ball down. So, if you pack the defense, it leaves space for long-range shots like M. Bradley likes. But, if the ball doesn't like the old ball, the ball ends in the stands.
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