GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jun 23, 2010 20:50:41 GMT -5
Ghana, South Korea, Uruguay in front of us to the semis.
It's looking more and more like the quarters in this thing will be ridiculously unbalanced. They'll be two "quarters of death" if you will and two, not so deadly quarters. Great work to win the group and be rewarded with a comparatively weaker draw.
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kghoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
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Post by kghoya on Jun 23, 2010 23:10:52 GMT -5
Ghana, South Korea, Uruguay in front of us to the semis. It's looking more and more like the quarters in this thing will be ridiculously unbalanced. They'll be two "quarters of death" if you will and two, not so deadly quarters. Great work to win the group and be rewarded with a comparatively weaker draw. If you want to look even further, it would be nice if Portugal won their group over Brazil. Yes I know that Portugal exploded for 7 goals against North Korea while Brazil held on for a 2-1 win but it's Brazil. C'mon!
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 24, 2010 3:12:10 GMT -5
What delays during the game actually result in "Stoppage time"? Injuries.. yes. What else? Who keeps tabs on the amount? Injuries and substitutions are the most common reasons for added time. The time between a goal and the restart of play and the time it takes to administer a yellow/red card might also be cause for added time...........although you'll note that 4 minutes of extra time were indicated in today's USA-Algeria game, during which the USA scored a goal AND an Algeria player was given a second yellow card for dissent and ejected, and IIRC the game still ended just after the 94:00 mark. It's at the referee's discretion when to end the game, and following from that how much time to add and for what reasons. The referee keeps the official time on the field. He's more than likely wearing two watches just in case (oh yeah, it happened to me from time to time and I was glad I had a backup!) and the assistant referees and fourth official almost certainly are keeping time as a backup/for awareness. The referee indicates to the fourth official how much added time there will be, and the fourth official displays it on that electronic board...that's really for the benefit of the players/coaches, but of course the TV audience and crowd can see it. In certain unusual cases--a severe injury, prolonged stoppage, etc., you could see extended periods of extra time. The USA-Costa Rica WC qualifier last October had 5 minutes of added time in the second half in part b/c Gooch blew out his knee. There was a prolonged stoppage in the Panama (I think) vs. Mexico Gold Cup game last summer when Mexico's coach kicked the Panama player along the touchline...I can't remember exactly how it all played out, but there was definitely about a 15 minute stoppage in play to sort everything out. I think the TV broadcast just gave up and stopped their running clock after a while, but the 4th official's board probably did in the end display something crazy like 14-15 mins. After the Manchester derby game at Old Trafford this season when Michael Owen scored the winner deep into added time to much controversy...one of the British networks actually went back and timed to the second all of the substitutions, injuries, and goal celebrations and concluded that the goal did come about 10-15 seconds before all the added time would have elapsed. One thing to note that most of you who've been to soccer games know: the clock stops at 45:00/90:00 on the scoreboards, so in those tense situations like today, you DO have to rely on your own watch to guess how long might be left.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 24, 2010 7:34:30 GMT -5
Thanks FL. Appreciate the explanation.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 24, 2010 9:25:29 GMT -5
uh oh Italy.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 24, 2010 9:51:44 GMT -5
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Post by redskins12820 on Jun 24, 2010 9:54:58 GMT -5
I think I'm the only one who thought that the disallowed goal in this match was the correct call. Even on the replay, when they lined up the players, I think they used their imaginary line too early, before the ball was released, thereby holding Dempsey onside. Even if it was onside, that is not a terrible call. Costly, sure, but not terrible. It was so close on instant replay that it was almost impossible to judge real time. Teams get goals called back all the time, and the announcers only harp on the fact when the U.S. is called offside. However, in the Slovenia game there were certainly questionable offsides calls going our way. While the disallowed goal against Slovenia was a terrible call, the call yesterday was not a terrible call. It's kind of funny that the story has become how the U.S. is getting shafted by the refs, when in reality there was only one really bad call. We also should have picked up a red against slovenia (Dempsey) and probably a couple yellows in the 2nd half. Lets not turn into complainers, except for eggregious calls.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 24, 2010 9:57:02 GMT -5
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jacko
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
GET SOME
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Post by jacko on Jun 24, 2010 10:14:04 GMT -5
I think I'm the only one who thought that the disallowed goal in this match was the correct call. Even on the replay, when they lined up the players, I think they used their imaginary line too early, before the ball was released, thereby holding Dempsey onside. Even if it was onside, that is not a terrible call. Costly, sure, but not terrible. It was so close on instant replay that it was almost impossible to judge real time. Teams get goals called back all the time, and the announcers only harp on the fact when the U.S. is called offside. However, in the Slovenia game there were certainly questionable offsides calls going our way. While the disallowed goal against Slovenia was a terrible call, the call yesterday was not a terrible call. It's kind of funny that the story has become how the U.S. is getting shafted by the refs, when in reality there was only one really bad call. We also should have picked up a red against slovenia (Dempsey) and probably a couple yellows in the 2nd half. Lets not turn into complainers, except for eggregious calls. You're not alone. For me soccer offside is like American football holding. I can see it in the replay, but I rarely catch it in real time just because I'm not as experienced a watcher. But the one they called on Dempsey yesterday, I actually thought they would call offside, as that's how he appeared to me in real time. I don't blame the asst. for calling that because of they way the defender and Dempsey broke immediately after the cross.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 24, 2010 10:33:14 GMT -5
it looked like italy scored on that ball the slovakian cleared off the line, but slovakia just scored again so it doesn't really matter anymore. Sucks to be an italy fan right about now.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jun 24, 2010 10:45:40 GMT -5
Ita-Slk just got good and frantic!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 24, 2010 10:50:08 GMT -5
Suck it Italian wannabees. Maybe now new jersey will root for the US the rest of the way.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jun 24, 2010 13:05:32 GMT -5
Suck it Italian wannabees. Maybe now new jersey will root for the US the rest of the way. Fa Nabola!
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Boz
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123 Fireballs!
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Post by Boz on Jun 24, 2010 13:11:24 GMT -5
I could think of a few other choice phrases, Nevada. Hey, I told them to bring along Allesandro Del Piero. He's heart and soul. All heart and soul. But they didn't want to listen. (OK, so maybe he wouldn't have been able to run for more than 10 minutes, but he still should have been there). On a more serious note, I'd place an imaginary wager that Italy would have won all three preliminary matches, and quite easily, if Andrea Pirlo had been playing. But he wasn't, they're out, time to move on.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jun 24, 2010 16:33:25 GMT -5
And if Greg Monroe would have stayed at GU, we would've won the National Championship...
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jun 24, 2010 16:43:23 GMT -5
What a great set of games! Italians going home! Another South American team goes through to the second round. Japan knocks another Euro team out of the Cup?! The pre-tournament gurus were saying how Japan had lost its last four friendlies and that this wasn't their best team.
I'm waiting to get home to catch the WC Primetime extended highlights show...
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Jun 24, 2010 17:05:49 GMT -5
Why not just stop the clock while someone is injured and wait for them to get off and then restart? What I hate about stoppage time is it's extremely flexible, they never call the game when the losing team is even sorta making a move even if it's in the 5th minute or 4 alleged minutes on added time. I don't like that. Just doesn't pass the smell test.
Having Ghana and possibly either Uruguay or S Korea in the WC QUARTERS is the easiest route any team will EVER have to the WC semis. Don't misunderstand that statement, we can lose to all three teams. But those are three very beatable teams to be in our way at this stage.
Uruguay must be HANDS DOWN the best soccer playing country per capita on earth. They have won the Cup twice. Now even if those go back to the less than globally competitive days, they have won something like 14 or 15 Copa Americas (South American championship) which is more than Brazil...with a population the same as...wait for it...Connecticut. And yet yes....they are a team that we can beat and if we have them in the Quarters nobody will likely have a more beatable opponent at that late stage.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 24, 2010 18:00:15 GMT -5
Along with their rich football history, Uruguay is also playing pretty damn good in this year's tournament.
I'd have to say they're the favorites in our little cluster.
And yes, I agree. When the ball is not in play, stop the clock. It's pretty darn simple. As has been previously mentioned, we've got digital timepieces now that are pretty frickin' accurate.
But I'm of the opinion in most sports that you should take as much out of the officials hands as you can. Use replay, have sensors on the ball, gloves and bases in baseball, use cameras to call balls and strikes, have laser yardage markers in football, etc., etc.
(PSSST -- Marge, I don't think Boz likes refs that much.)
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The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by The Stig on Jun 24, 2010 18:07:15 GMT -5
Reaction to Donovan's goal at the HQ of the main USA supporters group:
Note that for any Youtube video now, you can add a little extra touch by clicking the soccer ball below the video!
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jun 24, 2010 18:10:18 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts on stoppage time. From a fan's perspective, I can see it, but I am not sure that it really affects play. The team down a goal is going all out whether the game ends at the end of the 90th minute with a buzzer or if it ends sometime thereafter with a whistle. They're probably not stopping at any point in the injury time. I don't think the defense would stop either to substantiate that an injury time goal is undeserved.
Is the time frame arbitrary - sure. Will it be underinclusive or overinclusive - sure. Is that any different from a buzzer - I'm not sure. It just seems like a different line in the sand. In different sports, you still have the debate about when a game is really over and what counts - particularly in basketball. Then, you have the clock games just to figure out how much time is really there when there is a stoppage before the buzzer. Do they always get it right? I don't think so. Is it close, probably. Is it closer than the soccer approach? I think so - smaller margin/wiggle room, but it ain't perfect and folks will still bark about it.
Is this enough to make a change? I don't think so - the examples above really don't suggest to me that soccer end of game problems are any more frequent than problems you would have in other sports. College hoops is particularly bad in that department, maybe because officials are more able to influence play than in soccer - call the late game foul at the buzzer. That Wallace-Nova foul a few years ago probably could have gone either way (travel, out of bounds, or foul). Regardless, the call effectively ended the game, when it could have been pushed for anohter 5 minutes. The risk of a game-changer is lower in soccer, but make no mistake that folks would complain about end of game yellow cards and things like that which influence games down the road.
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