DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 11, 2010 15:26:19 GMT -5
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HoyaFanNY
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Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 11, 2010 15:44:45 GMT -5
yeah, the writers would never allow a cheater into the HOF...of wait they have already...hypocrites.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jan 11, 2010 15:53:25 GMT -5
How is the BBWAA's job easier now? Steroids weren't even officially banned by MLB (although their improper use was illegal under US law) for most if not all of McGwire's career and we have no idea how much they aided his performance or what most of his peers were doing during that time frame. I think he should get in as one of the great power hitters of his era - the best case against him isn't steroids, it's the fact that he did little other than mash taters and draw walks.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Jan 11, 2010 16:12:19 GMT -5
I don't want the terrible truth, I just want to see him slug some dingers!
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Post by redskins12820 on Jan 11, 2010 16:41:40 GMT -5
Amazing that McGwire saved and ruined baseball in the same season
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 11, 2010 17:51:54 GMT -5
Someone please make him explain the "Creatine in my Locker" story in light of this.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jan 11, 2010 18:17:06 GMT -5
Well when you are injecting anabolic steroids and taking HGH, you probably don't think twice about having a canister of some supplement from GNC that is commonly taken by recreational fitness enthusiasts (at the time) in your locker. Either that or he was trying to throw people off the scent.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 12, 2010 8:57:35 GMT -5
Either that or he was trying to throw people off the scent. I think it's quite obvious that it is this. And the his whole "it didn't help me hit HR's" - are you kidding me? I would vote to keep him out of the HoF until he admitted that it did help him a great deal. It's a shame that Canseco has been the most honest player out there. |
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jan 12, 2010 9:11:51 GMT -5
Just amazing that even in his attempts to come clean, he is in denial about the impact 'roids had on his ability to hit home runs. He's probably not even blowing smoke - he probably actually believes it. Moron.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jan 12, 2010 9:38:29 GMT -5
I think that McGwire and all the steroids players will be kept out of the HOF until the last year McGwire is eligible. He's the first big-time steroids user to retire, so I think his last year on the ballot will be the one where a lot of guys say "OK, our point was made. But the HOF is not the HOF w/out the most celebrated players of a decade, even if they were celebrated in spite of some very gray-area wrongdoing."
Just imagine the Hall w/out McGwire, Clemens, Sosa, Bonds, and Palmeiro. Add in Rose (who I also think should get in immediately), and you're starting to keep A LOT of record-holders out. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure those 5 steroids guys + Rose account for: all time hits, all time HRs, single season HRs (top 3), Clemens' strikeout and wins rankings, and a gaggle of MVPs / Cy Youngs / All-Star appearances.
So someone needs to decide: either these achievements and records are not valid, or the people who achieved/won them get recognized.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 12, 2010 10:56:20 GMT -5
Add in Rose (who I also think should get in immediately), You are kidding on Rose, right? He gambled on baseball while managing the Reds. He agreed (repeat agreed) to a lifetime ban so that the Dowd investigation would stop and not go public any further. He is permanently ineligible from baseball and thus the Hall. He then proceeded to lie about his gambling on baseball for 15-20 years while thumbing his nose at baseball. He only came clean to sell a book when every other one of Charlie's hustles had fallen flat. I don't care what they do with the roid freaks (argument to be made that they are emblematic of an era) but there was no Gambling, lying scumbag era of which Rose could be the emblem. Out forever or close the Hall in my humble opinion. |
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 12, 2010 11:24:18 GMT -5
he agreed to the lifetime ban because it stated he could apply for reinstatement after one year. he waited to apply, and selig was ready to grant the reinstatement, until fay vincent got in his ear.
if you don't want lying, gambling scumbags in the he HOF, then kick out half the old timers in there already. how about a drug traficker? or a racist? or ty cobb?
stop acting like the HOF is full of angels.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 12, 2010 11:36:43 GMT -5
he agreed to the lifetime ban because it stated he could apply for reinstatement after one year. he waited to apply, and selig was ready to grant the reinstatement, until fay vincent got in his ear. if you don't want lying, gambling scumbags in the he HOF, then kick out half the old timers in there already. how about a drug traficker? or a racist? or ty cobb? stop acting like the HOF is full of angels. The one thing the Hall is not full of is people who agreed to a lifetime ban and then continued to lie about his gambling for 20 years after the fact. Rose sold his Hall pass to his bookie. The Hall has all kinds of reprobates but no one who is ineligible from baseball. |
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Jan 12, 2010 12:16:21 GMT -5
Rose should not be allowed in until Shoeless Joe Jackson is allowed in - he was acquitted in a court of law and still railroaded by Landis.
A couple of McGwire tidbits:
Alberto Gonzales refused to give MM immunity before his congressional hearings according to Rep. Tom Davis (R-VA) after McGwire admitted steroid use to Davis in a meeting before the hearings.
Ari Fleischer has handled the PR rollout for McGwire's admission (he also does BCS PR work now too.) Fleischer's company is part owned by IMG, which also represents Costas - where McGwire had his first TV interview.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 12, 2010 12:53:40 GMT -5
he agreed to the lifetime ban because it stated he could apply for reinstatement after one year. he waited to apply, and selig was ready to grant the reinstatement, until fay vincent got in his ear. if you don't want lying, gambling scumbags in the he HOF, then kick out half the old timers in there already. how about a drug traficker? or a racist? or ty cobb? stop acting like the HOF is full of angels. The one thing the Hall is not full of is people who agreed to a lifetime ban and then continued to lie about his gambling for 20 years after the fact. Rose sold his Hall pass to his bookie. The Hall has all kinds of reprobates but no one who is ineligible from baseball. it was a 'lifetime ban' in words only. if it wasn't, the reinstatement stipulation would not have been included. signing the agreement was rose's only option. it provided him the best opportunity to get back into baseball eventually. he was almost broke and knew the IRS was knocking on his door next. he more than paid his debt. he lost all his money, was banned from doing the only thing he truly loved and then was sent to jail for a crime that normally gets people a fine and probation. he'd already be in if he just admitted it to ueberroth and giamatti in february 1989. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 12, 2010 13:02:28 GMT -5
Kind of like the sign that says if you bet on baseball you will be banned forever that hangs on the wall in every clubhouse is words only. Actions have consequences. Maybe Pete can make some scratch by betting he won't get in any time soon.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 12, 2010 13:07:41 GMT -5
i never said he was smart. ;D
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 12, 2010 14:39:08 GMT -5
he'd already be in if he just admitted it to ueberroth and giamatti in february 1989. But he didn't, so he's not. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. And if McGwire had really come clean here with an ounce of humility, maybe he'd have a shot at the hall. He lied about how long he did steroids, he maintains it didn't help him hit home runs, and he wouldn't talk to Congress about it. The only reason he came forward and told an ounce of what he did was because the Cardinals forced him to. No one's going to overturn that ban in Rose's lifetime because it'll be seen as Editeding on Giamatti's grave. |
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Jan 12, 2010 16:03:34 GMT -5
he'd already be in if he just admitted it to ueberroth and giamatti in february 1989. But he didn't, so he's not. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. And if McGwire had really come clean here with an ounce of humility, maybe he'd have a shot at the hall. He lied about how long he did steroids, he maintains it didn't help him hit home runs, and he wouldn't talk to Congress about it. The only reason he came forward and told an ounce of what he did was because the Cardinals forced him to. No one's going to overturn that ban in Rose's lifetime because it'll be seen as Editeding on Giamatti's grave. and they'll never lift the ban on Jackson until they lift it on Rose even though it should be the other way around |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 12, 2010 19:26:59 GMT -5
Kind of like the sign that says if you bet on baseball you will be banned forever that hangs on the wall in every clubhouse is words only. Actions have consequences. Maybe Pete can make some scratch by betting he won't get in any time soon. You have to bet on games in which you're involved to be ineligible for life. There's no evidence he did that. |
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