Arenas, Crittenton pull guns on each other

[SFHoya99]

You weren't getting anyone to take Gil's contract even before this. If there was a criminal act in there -- you might be able to get out of the contract.

[jgalt]

Good for stern and the indefinite suspension.

now a question for the lawyers out there: If it is true that Arenas threatened to "blow your legs off" to Crittenton (or something like that) and that he then pointed his weapon at Crittenton after making such a threat, couldnt he be charged with attempted assualt with a deadly weapon. And doesnt it not matter if he was joking or if the gun was not loaded because it is the perception of danger that matters?

not saying that he will be charged with something that serious, but it would seem to me that if any of us did the same thing at our work places (or schools) we would be out of a job and in jail before you could shoot a half court shot.

[SSHoya]

Jgalt,

Don't know where you heard that Arenas threatened to "blow your legs off." I have heard reports that Arenas met with the US Atty's office for about two hours and told them that he simply displayed the guns with a note on it to Crittenden asking him to choose a gun to shoot him with because of the dispute that Crittenden had with Arenas over a gambling debt ($60,000 IIRC) from card playing. Crittenden apparently said to Arenas that he (Arenas) would have to shoot him to get his money paid, and as a "joke' Arenas displayed the unloaded guns in the locker room with the note. Crittenden didn't take it as a joke and said he had his own gun, etc... Arenas is represented by Ken Wainstein. former US Atty for DC, former Asst Attorney General for National Security DIvision at Justice Department, and former Assistant to the President for Homeland Security under Bush (and my former boss) so he is taking it seriously and paying big bucks for his lawyer.. Arenas denies pointing a gun at anyone but merely displayed them as noted. Arenas's problem is that his actions (still making a joke out of it) after Wainstein issued several serious statements about Arenas's conduct on Arenas's behalf has ticked off the Commissioner and the US Att's Office in DC must take it seriously. Wainstein knows all the prosecutors so not a bad choice for a defense counsel, but when you have knucklehead for a client, it makes it that much more difficult. I think Arenas's problem lies more with the possession of unregistered weapons in the DC which is still against the law even afte the Supreme Court decision allowing private ownership of handguns in DC since I believe it is conceded that Arenas had not registered any of his guns and brought them into DC from wherever he lives (Virginia, I think which has pretty lax gun laws).

[RusskyHoya]

If the account that Mike Wise conveys is at all accurate, Mr. Crittenton can give his NBA career a long kiss goodnight:

Their barbs escalated to a point where Arenas, smiling, said he would blow up Crittenton's car, according to two players on the flight, who requested anonymity. Crittenton replied that he would shoot Arenas in his surgically repaired knee.

Walking into the locker room two days after the dispute on the team plane, according to two witnesses, Arenas laid out the guns in Crittenton's locker. Two other teammates eventually sauntered in and, while Arenas was writing the note in front of Crittenton's cubicle, in walked Crittenton, according to their account.

Asking Arenas what he was doing, Arenas replied, "If you want to shoot me, I'd just thought I'd make it easy for you." As other teammates laughed, Crittenton crumpled up the paper, tossed one of Arenas's guns across the room, where it bounced in front of a team trainer, and said he didn't need any of Arenas's firearms because he had his own, according to the witness accounts.

Crittenton then drew his weapon, loaded it and chambered a round, the witnesses said.

Neither witness said the gun was ever pointed at Arenas, but both said Crittenton began singing as he held the gun.

Arenas began laughing, the witnesses said, telling Crittenton, "Look at that little shiny gun," as two other players slowly retreated to the training room.

Arenas eventually followed. By the time the players came back out, Crittenton was gone.

[Cambridge]

The suspension is ridiculous.

From all the accounts, Crittenton is the one who threatened to kneecap* Arenas in after Arenas welched on a gambling debt incurred on a team flight. Apparently, Arenas and Crittenton were partners in a game of Bid Whist - a derivation of Bridge - and Arenas left the table when the team was down big (I've heard the amount exceeded $60K) forcing Crittenton to cover their debt. Crittenton was not pleased and then threatened Arenas with a kneecapping.

Arenas brought four unloaded handguns to the locker room shortly thereafter, purportedly to dispose of them. At the very least, he was distracted by the opportunity for a ill-formed practical joke and placed the four unloaded weapons in Crittenton's locker with a note asking Crittenton to "pick one" with which to kneecap Arenas, thereby alleging that Crittenton did't even own his own weapon. This incensed Crittenton, who purportedly announced to those around him that he didn't need to borrow a gun as he pulled out his handgun, loaded, and chambered a round. Arenas apparently laughed it off. In a rye reference to this incident, Arenas made pistol gestures with his hands prior to the tip of the Sixers game.

So, Arenas never held a loaded weapon or threatened anyone. In fact, according to most accounts it was he who was threatened by another player. He was suspended for bringing four unloaded guns to the locker room, having a gun pulled on him, and then making light of the incident on TV...


EDIT - I'll clarify, the suspension is ridiculous because it is clearly not about what actually happened but about Arenas' actions at the Sixers game and how that reflects on Stern.
* I believe the threat centered around shooting Arenas in the "gimpy" knee.

[theexorcist]

Jan 7, 2010 10:16:10 GMT -5 Cambridge said:

The suspension is ridiculous.

From all the accounts, Crittenton is the one who threatened to kneecap* Arenas in after Arenas welched on a gambling debt incurred on a team flight. Apparently, Arenas and Crittenton were partners in a game of Bid Whist - a derivation of Bridge - and Arenas left the table when the team was down big (I've heard the amount exceeded $60K) forcing Crittenton to cover their debt. Crittenton was not pleased and then threatened Arenas with a kneecapping.

Arenas brought four unloaded handguns to the locker room shortly thereafter, purportedly to dispose of them. At the very least, he was distracted by the opportunity for a ill-formed practical joke and placed the four unloaded weapons in Crittenton's locker with a note asking Crittenton to "pick one" with which to kneecap Arenas, thereby alleging that Crittenton did't even own his own weapon. This incensed Crittenton, who purportedly announced to those around him that he didn't need to borrow a gun as he pulled out his handgun, loaded, and chambered a round. Arenas apparently laughed it off. In a rye reference to this incident, Arenas made pistol gestures with his hands prior to the tip of the Sixers game.

So, Arenas never held a loaded weapon or threatened anyone. In fact, according to most accounts it was he who was threatened by another player. He was suspended for bringing four unloaded guns to the locker room, having a gun pulled on him, and then making light of the incident on TV...


EDIT - I'll clarify, the suspension is ridiculous because it is clearly not about what actually happened but about Arenas' actions at the Sixers game and how that reflects on Stern.
* I believe the threat centered around shooting Arenas in the "gimpy" knee.

The suspension isn't ridiculous.

1. The NBA's an image league. Punishing Crittenton before Arenas leads to complaints that the NBA treats its stars differently, and how a lawbreaker is on the court, yadda, yadda. The part of the story no one is bringing up is that Al Sharpton - SHARPTON! The nut! - wants Arenas punished. Public opinion is against the NBA on this, and they please the masses.

2. Crittenton hasn't played this season. Arenas continues - well, continued - to play. From a logistics standpoint, you take out (poor choice of words) Arenas immediately, and knock Crittenton out in a week or two once things have played out. He's not going anywhere.

3. Arenas brought his guns to the arena, which violated DC law (I think) and NBA policy (I think). That's good enough for a suspension right there.

Really, let's say someone worked at Bass Pro Shops (a place that's probably pretty tolerant of employees owning guns). During a poker game dispute with employees, there was a dispute. The next day, one of the people brought a large number of guns to the break room and put a note on someone's locker that said "pick one".

Wouldn't everyone kind of want this person to be fired, regardless of whether or not the other person picked up his own gun, loaded and cocked it? Would any argument that "yeah, this guy's the store joker" make any difference?

[hoyawatcher]

I don't know how you can say this suspension is ridiculous. The policy was no guns in the locker room - full stop. That alone is enough to get you suspended regardless of rational/reason/excuse/thinking/lack of thinking.

Then you start throwing in the actions of Arenas after the incident became known plus the desire of Stern to get away from the "thug league" image and Gilbert sealed his own fate. Stearn apparantly wanted to wait for the suspension until the legal investigation was completed but didn't have the chance to do that. Gilbert was going to get some sort of suspension at a later date but his actions Editeded off Stearn and probably got him a lot more trouble than he wants to admit.

I don't know how you look at this and say it is ridiculous for Arenas. Whether Crit gets something himself I don't know but really doesn't play into Arenas punishment.

[kchoya]

I'll agree with Cambridge that the suspension in its current form is ridiculous. I think Arenas has to be suspended some amount of time -- maybe 10 games. But not for the rest of the season, which is how I think it will play out. Where's the suspension for Crittenton, who also had a gun in the locker room and (apparently) it was loaded and being waived about. Cambridge hit this on the head - Stern was Editeded by Arenas's response and acted on that.

Also, where's the suspension for Delonte West, who was driving around the beltway with an arsenal strapped to his back. Talk about not being fit to play in the NBA right now, this guy has actual mental issues. Yet he's playing for the Cavs. And wasn't Chris Mills suspended around 7-10 games a while back for gun issues at the arena?

[Cambridge]

Jan 7, 2010 10:59:50 GMT -5 kchoya said:

I'll agree with Cambridge that the suspension in its current form is ridiculous. I think Arenas has to be suspended some amount of time -- maybe 10 games. But not for the rest of the season, which is how I think it will play out. Where's the suspension for Crittenton, who also had a gun in the locker room and (apparently) it was loaded and being waived about. Cambridge hit this on the head - Stern was Editeded by Arenas's response and acted on that.

Also, where's the suspension for Delonte West, who was driving around the beltway with an arsenal strapped to his back. Talk about not being fit to play in the NBA right now, this guy has actual mental issues. Yet he's playing for the Cavs. And wasn't Chris Mills suspended around 7-10 games a while back for gun issues at the arena?

Exactly.

[hoyawatcher]

So until Delante West and Crit are suspended Arenas shouldn't be?? Is that the point?

Wow - I can see saying they need to get suspended as well (especially West) but not saying Arenas should be playing right now. Talk about a tin ear.

[Cambridge]

Jan 7, 2010 10:58:38 GMT -5 hoyawatcher said:

I don't know how you can say this suspension is ridiculous. The policy was no guns in the locker room - full stop. That alone is enough to get you suspended regardless of rational/reason/excuse/thinking/lack of thinking.

Then you start throwing in the actions of Arenas after the incident became known plus the desire of Stern to get away from the "thug league" image and Gilbert sealed his own fate. Stearn apparantly wanted to wait for the suspension until the legal investigation was completed but didn't have the chance to do that. Gilbert was going to get some sort of suspension at a later date but his actions Editeded off Stearn and probably got him a lot more trouble than he wants to admit.

I don't know how you look at this and say it is ridiculous for Arenas. Whether Crit gets something himself I don't know but really doesn't play into Arenas punishment.

So you don't think that the league should have taken action against a person who waived a loaded handgun in a locker room, but your fine with them suspending another player indefinitely for bringing in four unloaded (thus posing no direct threat to anyone) to the locker room?

Just so we're clear, I don't think that it's ridiculous to suspend Arenas, I just think the "indefinite" portion and the exclusive targeting of Arenas - when he wasn't the one to PULL A LOADED WEAPON - stinks of perverse priorities. How can you claim the actions of the league against the two players involved in this incident are unrelated? Both players acted with wanton disregard for the safety of teammates and team officials...yet the league looks ridiculous only taking action against the one who wasn't brandishing a loaded weapon. All it says to the public is - we care more about our public image and the appearance of getting tough than actually taking effective disciplinary measures and changing the weapons culture in the NBA.

EDIT - Oh, and the other thing is clearly demonstrates is the ONLY way you'll get suspended is if you personally embarrass Stern. Nevermind if you brandish a loaded weapon or bring unloaded guns to the locker room -- no, the appropriate response to that is patience while the legal investigation unfolds. But, if you disrespect Stern, you are out indefinitely. Good message. Solid priorities. Again, it's the timing, the nature and the perverse motivation of the suspension that I find ridiculous, not the suspension itself.

[Boz]

While I don't agree that the suspension is bogus, I do agree that it is completely bogus to suspend Arenas indefinitely and not Crittendon.

I don't care whether he is a star or not. He is a player in your league, David Stern. Maybe he didn't come out and do the Shooter McGavin move just to tweak you off, but certainly, his actions are just as worthy of suspension.

(I won't comment on who is worse in this case, since the facts seem muddled to me, but clearly both players had guns in the locker room. I think that much has been established.)

[hoyawatcher]

If Crit did the loaded gun thing then I would fully agree he should be suspended for a long time. I will say that the details of what Crit may or may not have done are still somewhat in dispute or at least somewhat unclear from the press reports. Early reports say he threw Arenas' gun away and walked away. Today's report says he had his own gun and it was loaded. Because he is not going around taunting Stearn he gets some leeway to let the process play out - right or wrong.

Once Stearn knows that both players did indeed have guns I hope Crit is gone as well. That doesn't mean though that suspending Arenas indefinitely is a bad or unjust punishment. He gets no leniency because of Crit.

Edit - my supposition/speculation is that Arenas got an "indefinite" suspension now was that he forced Sterns' hand with his antics and Stern had to get him out of there without being able to quantify exactly what happened and how long he was going to suspend him for eventually. The length will be determined after all the legal and internal investigations play out. I don't know how Stern could have done anything different with Arenas.

[kchoya]

Jan 7, 2010 11:43:25 GMT -5 hoyawatcher said:

So until Delante West and Crit are suspended Arenas shouldn't be?? Is that the point?

Wow - I can see saying they need to get suspended as well (especially West) but not saying Arenas should be playing right now. Talk about a tin ear.

Wow - talk about not reading my post at all. How about the part where I said: "I'll agree with Cambridge that the suspension in its current form is ridiculous. I think Arenas has to be suspended some amount of time -- maybe 10 games. But not for the rest of the season, which is how I think it will play out."

Yes, I think Arenas should be suspended. Just not for the rest of the season. And I think West and Crittendon should also be suspended.

[Cambridge]

Jan 7, 2010 12:08:00 GMT -5 hoyawatcher said:

If Crit did the loaded gun thing then I would fully agree he should be suspended for a long time. I will say that the details of what Crit may or may not have done are still somewhat in dispute or at least somewhat unclear from the press reports. Early reports say he threw Arenas' gun away and walked away. Today's report says he had his own gun and it was loaded. Because he is not going around taunting Stearn he gets some leeway to let the process play out - right or wrong.

Once Stearn knows that both players did indeed have guns I hope Crit is gone as well. That doesn't mean though that suspending Arenas indefinitely is a bad or unjust punishment. He gets no leniency because of Crit.

Edit - my supposition/speculation is that Arenas got an "indefinite" suspension now was that he forced Sterns' hand with his antics and Stern had to get him out of there without being able to quantify exactly what happened and how long he was going to suspend him for eventually. The length will be determined after all the legal and internal investigations play out. I don't know how Stern could have done anything different with Arenas.

So you agree that discipline should be meted out according to how much someone taunts Stern. Good policy.

[hoyawatcher]

I agree discipline in the NBA is affected by how the public perception of what is going on affects the image of the league. It's called reality. When a player such as Arenas does stupid stuff that materially affects the image of the league I expect Stern to act accordingly. May shoot holes in your moral equivalence theory between him and Crit or him and West but from the perspective of the general public the NBA/Stern had to act.

I don't agree that the fact Crit had a gun in the locker room has been definitively established. To me we have dueling press reports right now. If Stern knows for sure he did have a gun I expect him to act.

When the NFL and their commish goes out of their way to get rid of a thug image we applaud. In the NBA we say it is just because someone taunted Stern and try to make excuses for a thug.

[SFHoya99]

Jan 7, 2010 16:55:49 GMT -5 hoyawatcher said:

I agree discipline in the NBA is affected by how the public perception of what is going on affects the image of the league. It's called reality. When a player such as Arenas does stupid stuff that materially affects the image of the league I expect Stern to act accordingly. May shoot holes in your moral equivalence theory between him and Crit or him and West but from the perspective of the general public the NBA/Stern had to act.

I don't agree that the fact Crit had a gun in the locker room has been definitively established. To me we have dueling press reports right now. If Stern knows for sure he did have a gun I expect him to act.

When the NFL and their commish goes out of their way to get rid of a thug image we applaud. In the NBA we say it is just because someone taunted Stern and try to make excuses for a thug.

It makes PR sense to punish Arenas; what sense is there to not punish Crit or others more?

[kchoya]

Jan 7, 2010 16:55:49 GMT -5 hoyawatcher said:

I agree discipline in the NBA is affected by how the public perception of what is going on affects the image of the league. It's called reality. When a player such as Arenas does stupid stuff that materially affects the image of the league I expect Stern to act accordingly. May shoot holes in your moral equivalence theory between him and Crit or him and West but from the perspective of the general public the NBA/Stern had to act.

I don't agree that the fact Crit had a gun in the locker room has been definitively established. To me we have dueling press reports right now. If Stern knows for sure he did have a gun I expect him to act.

When the NFL and their commish goes out of their way to get rid of a thug image we applaud. In the NBA we say it is just because someone taunted Stern and try to make excuses for a thug.

Does anyone really think of Arenas as a thug? He's a little too goofy and weird for me.

[theexorcist]

Jan 7, 2010 16:58:01 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Jan 7, 2010 16:55:49 GMT -5 hoyawatcher said:

I agree discipline in the NBA is affected by how the public perception of what is going on affects the image of the league. It's called reality. When a player such as Arenas does stupid stuff that materially affects the image of the league I expect Stern to act accordingly. May shoot holes in your moral equivalence theory between him and Crit or him and West but from the perspective of the general public the NBA/Stern had to act.

I don't agree that the fact Crit had a gun in the locker room has been definitively established. To me we have dueling press reports right now. If Stern knows for sure he did have a gun I expect him to act.

When the NFL and their commish goes out of their way to get rid of a thug image we applaud. In the NBA we say it is just because someone taunted Stern and try to make excuses for a thug.

It makes PR sense to punish Arenas; what sense is there to not punish Crit or others more?

It doesn't make sense to punish them now.

Arenas busted NBA policy and can play. Crittenton has been injured and cannot.

I can see a mild delay from Stern - you're trying to confirm a story before laying down the hammer. Enough's changed since the story broke to make this prudent. And Arenas forced Stern's hand by mocking him.

I still think that Crittenton will get suspended, too, but let's confirm everything before we start executions.

[EasyEd]

Mike Wise's article says that two eyewitnesses confirmed that Crittenton loaded his gun and chambered a round. If so, a lifetime ban ought to be his reward.