TC
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Post by TC on Jan 1, 2010 17:33:38 GMT -5
I kinda agree with Burrell - if Henry Sims is on the court, St. John's is the better team. In just about any other configuration, they're not and Georgetown should beat them by 20.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 1, 2010 18:15:53 GMT -5
I actually thought we played our best 5 minutes of basketball with Henry on the court in the first half. I also thought we played our worst 5 minutes of basketball win Henry on the court in the second half. He will get better, he is getting better, people on here just need to be patient. And yes, I realize, patience isn't exactly a strong point for this board.
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Post by Johnny Jungle on Jan 1, 2010 18:58:02 GMT -5
There was a lot of contact going uncalled. Only thing there was a lot of contact both ways going uncalled. Just the way the game was played. Another thing is that Higgins is the worst ref in college basketball. He makes some of the most inconsistent calls. Also if anyone noticed before the end of the first half the Georgetown player was completely out of bounds and the refs missed it. St. John's should have gotten the ball with 2.3 ticks left. I had it on freeze frame on the DVR it was clear as day live and in replay. On the questions you posed earlier about hostility - I remember you from a year or two back, when you've consistently given good analysis and produced a solid website. With that said, it's problematic to bring up "the refs hated us" card, especially on a message board for the other team. I saw quite a few calls that favored the Hoyas, which were balanced by other calls that favored SJU. As you note, the game was not reffed well. And if you want to allege that one call was the difference in the game, or that SJU should have won, I find that surprising. Georgetown was playing a game on New Year's Eve, without a student section, with a good part of the lower bowl in comped tickets - minimizing the home-court advantage. Twice, however, the Hoyas seemed to be on the verge of breaking the game open - which, to their credit, SJU kept from happening. However, when a team has a grand total of two one-point leads - each with more than ten minutes left to go - it's pushing logic to say that they "deserved to win". On the "deserve to be ranked" thing - eh. Kansas State - who is ranked just above the Hoyas - has a loss to Mississippi and good wins over Washington State, Xavier, and at UNLV and Alabama. Michigan State, ranked #10th, has wins over Gonzaga, Massachusetts, and Utah, and losses to Florida, Carolina, and Texas. Neither of those resumes seems substantially better than wins against Temple, Butler, Tulane, and Washington (three of them away or at neutral sites) and a bad loss at home to Old Dominion. You continue to provide good analysis, especially of the Johnnies, but if you want to come here and make some assertions about the Hoyas, be prepared to back them up. Which is why I noted that the allowed physical play went both ways. It wasn't favored either way. Also my mention of the out of bounds wasn't indicative of the final outcome of the game. Just an observation of the poor officiating in general. As for the rankings, the parity across the nation is ridiculous this year. I do think overall its a "down" year for college basketball. The Hoyas are getting it done but I just don't see it over the long haul. I think thats fair of me to say. |
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Post by Johnny Jungle on Jan 1, 2010 19:04:06 GMT -5
Jeez what is the kid supposed to say? "I think we're an inferior team and we should have lost."  Well that would've been the truth. St. John's has talent. But they're stupid. Which makes sense with the quality of their schools academics. Just terrible terrible basketball IQ. If st. John's didn't hit a bunch of contested 3's to get back into the game they would've lost by 15+. St. john's was lucky to be in the game not unlucky to not win. St. John's fans need to stop talking trash until they've done something. Last years two wins got them way to cocky. Holy arrogance, batman!  You should be lucky St. John's couldn't make a layup otherwise this game would have been +8 in favor of St. John's. Generally when a team has more rebounds, more assists, more offensive rebounds, and less TO's they win the game. I'm not saying St. John's "lost" this game nor am I saying Georgetown "won" this game either. It was a great game but I think if you played it again we'd see another outcome. I think thats why the Big East is so great. I hope we get another shot come BET time. |
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Post by Johnny Jungle on Jan 1, 2010 19:08:57 GMT -5
You really don't like St. John's do you? Actually unlike some of the old school fans I have never hated St John's. In fact I've been rooting for them the past few years even though I don't think much of their coach. But I must say the comments by Burrell didn't endear me to this bunch. No, he doesn't have to compare the teams at all. Just comment on what he and his team have to do better next time to get a win. But talking about how you think you are better after a loss is a punk move. He and his band of brothers haven't proven anything. Not last season, not the season before and certainly not THIS season so far. All he and his team have shown is that they can lose games against quality teams (excluding Temple of course). And wasn't the Temple game played in MSG or at least on St John's campus? Perhaps St. John's can't knock off any good teams on the road or at a neutral site. Regardless he lost. He need to suck it up like a man and accept it; not make claims that his team is better than the team that just gave him a L. Perhaps there was nothing that Gtown did last night that would suggest they are a dominant team but there also wasn't anything that Johnnies did yesterday that tells me they are better. The Hoyas lost a lot of close games last season in which they gave away a lead late in the contest. Yet I don't recall any quotes by Hoyas during that season in which they claimed they were better than the team that defeated them. And I'm sure that type of attitude, sportsmanship and class starts at the top with the head coach. Which tells me all I need to know about Stormin' Norman who would have been fired light years ago by almost any other program. Even DePaul wouldn't keep him around that long with such little results to show for it. ] Why you so worried about our coach for? If he sucks why would you want him fired? Doesn't add up. So you're telling me you wouldn't wanting Monroe to think he is better than opposing teams even if they lost? Also we beat Siena and Temple at the Palestra in Philly right in Temple's backyard. I was at both games and the opponents both traveled better than us. So I don't see your point there. Big East road games are tougher to get W's. If you look historically the past 5 years many teams in this conference struggle on the road but the "elite" get it done. Thats what St. John's needs to do and we haven't. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 1, 2010 19:10:56 GMT -5
Well that would've been the truth. St. John's has talent. But they're stupid. Which makes sense with the quality of their schools academics. Just terrible terrible basketball IQ. If st. John's didn't hit a bunch of contested 3's to get back into the game they would've lost by 15+. St. john's was lucky to be in the game not unlucky to not win. St. John's fans need to stop talking trash until they've done something. Last years two wins got them way to cocky. Holy arrogance, batman! You should be lucky St. John's couldn't make a layup otherwise this game would have been +8 in favor of St. John's. Generally when a team has more rebounds, more assists, more offensive rebounds, and less TO's they win the game. I'm not saying St. John's "lost" this game nor am I saying Georgetown "won" this game either. It was a great game but I think if you played it again we'd see another outcome. I think thats why the Big East is so great. I hope we get another shot come BET time. In point of fact, Georgetown did win and St. John's did lose. Thus, the score. If both teams play the best they can play for the full game, Georgetown wins by at least 15. |
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Post by Johnny Jungle on Jan 1, 2010 19:16:52 GMT -5
Wow! Not sure how things got so hostile. I'm a friendly rival who has been posting here for a few years now just adding to discussion. Just because I don't think highly of Georgetown doesn't diminish anything that they have accomplished. I should have reiterated that they are certainly deserving of their rank at this point in the season but when I say I don't think they're top 25 I'm thinking at the end of the season. As for St. John's I'm not too focused on last year or last 10 years nor am I trying to compare them or our coaches to Georgetown's. I'm focused on the now and I think we have some talent. Enough talent to make some noise in the Big East this year. I think you and others here can admit the Johnnies have some solid weapons on the floor. Johnny -- do you think St. Johns will finish ahead of Georgetown in the BE regular season this year? I think they can. Georgetown has to play Villanova, Syracuse, and Rutgers x2 St. John's has to play Louisville, Pitt, and Depaul x2 St. John's has Marquette and WVU at home on while Georgetown plays both on the road. |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 1, 2010 19:22:49 GMT -5
Well that would've been the truth. St. John's has talent. But they're stupid. Which makes sense with the quality of their schools academics. Just terrible terrible basketball IQ. If st. John's didn't hit a bunch of contested 3's to get back into the game they would've lost by 15+. St. john's was lucky to be in the game not unlucky to not win. St. John's fans need to stop talking trash until they've done something. Last years two wins got them way to cocky. Holy arrogance, batman! You should be lucky St. John's couldn't make a layup otherwise this game would have been +8 in favor of St. John's. Generally when a team has more rebounds, more assists, more offensive rebounds, and less TO's they win the game. I'm not saying St. John's "lost" this game nor am I saying Georgetown "won" this game either. It was a great game but I think if you played it again we'd see another outcome. I think thats why the Big East is so great. I hope we get another shot come BET time. according to the offical box score we out rebounded you by 1. You had 1 more assist then us, you had 2 less turn overs. Not really anything that would indicate us getting out played. I could easily say that any time a team gets more trips to the line, Shoots better from 2, shoots better from 3, shoots better from the line, and wins the rebounding battle they usually win. And they did. You took the lead with 8:38 to go in the half and only scored 5 pts the rest of the game. We were the better team defensively and offensively. If you played that game 10 times you win 2 max. Georgetown definitely did win this game, by out playing st. john's. You got beat by a better team that will prove to be a legitimate top 10! team by the end of the year. It's not my fault you're too stupid to know a top 25 team when you see one. I don't expect much from a school with such terrible Basketball IQ. Go back to your crappy website. |
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jan 1, 2010 19:31:53 GMT -5
If both teams play as well as they couldve GU wins by 30+
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 1, 2010 19:32:43 GMT -5
Don't know if anyone caught it but the game was replayed on ESPNU this afternoon. They also replayed the Gonzaga/Oklahoma game where a Sooner hung onto the rim and the board disintegrated.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 1, 2010 19:42:31 GMT -5
Why you so worried about our coach for? If he sucks why would you want him fired? Doesn't add up. Because the catholic schools have been trying to prove they were still relevant ever since the BE went to 16 teams and it would help if a program with tradition like St. John's in the biggest media market of the country got its act together. Understand now? Good grief. Monroe can think anything he wants however : 1)he better get a reality check soon if his team keeps losing and 2) most importantly he better not say "we're the better team" publicly. All he needs to do is be "boring" when speaking to the media and giving all the credit to the team that beat his team. This ain't rocket science. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 1, 2010 19:48:10 GMT -5
Don't know if anyone caught it but the game was replayed on ESPNU this afternoon. They also replayed the Gonzaga/Oklahoma game where a Sooner hung onto the rim and the board disintegrated. I was up last night changing channels and came by the Gonzaga game with a shot of glass on the ground being cleaned up and thought "oh wow, this must have been good, I'm gonna stick around for the replay". I figured it must have been a Darvin Hamm moment. Five minutes later they showed the replay of the guy going up, not being anywhere near the ball, grabbing the rim, and the backboard breaking. Least exciting backboard break ever. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 1, 2010 19:48:44 GMT -5
Don't know if anyone caught it but the game was replayed on ESPNU this afternoon. They also replayed the Gonzaga/Oklahoma game where a Sooner hung onto the rim and the board disintegrated. Is this the Sooner team with Willie Warren who was supposed to be a First Team All American and a top five draft pick? I guess its hard to look as good now that Blake is gone and rehabbing in La La Land. And did Gottlieb actually predict that Warren would be the College Player of the Year (as well as claim an argument could be made that Bill Self is the Coach of the Decade?)? What a Big 12 whore he is. |
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jan 1, 2010 20:33:39 GMT -5
Generally when a team has more rebounds, more assists, more offensive rebounds, and less TO's they win the game. You run a basketball website (that crashes Firefox fyi) and yet you are mistaken about the number one rule of basketball - the team that scores the most POINTS wins. Not the team with one more rebound, or two more assists, one fewer turnover or any other pretty combination of numbers. Perhaps the subtle distinction escapes an SJU grad, but trust me on this one, the team with the most points wins, every time. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 1, 2010 20:45:25 GMT -5
I always thought FG% and FG% defense were the best indications of one's team superiority to its opponent in a game.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 1, 2010 22:08:21 GMT -5
Generally when a team has more rebounds, more assists, more offensive rebounds, and less TO's they win the game. You run a basketball website (that crashes Firefox fyi) and yet you are mistaken about the number one rule of basketball - the team that scores the most POINTS wins. Not the team with one more rebound, or two more assists, one fewer turnover or any other pretty combination of numbers. Perhaps the subtle distinction escapes an SJU grad, but trust me on this one, the team with the most points wins, every time. this Johnny jungle character is a clown. Though I'd like to get another win over one of the dregs of the conference, I'm also glad we don't play that tattered program again so this kid will crawl back under his rock. St. Johns can't keep up in the Big East anymore Johnny. Sad but true. Now leave. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 1, 2010 22:47:25 GMT -5
Actually unlike some of the old school fans I have never hated St John's. In fact I've been rooting for them the past few years even though I don't think much of their coach. But I must say the comments by Burrell didn't endear me to this bunch. No, he doesn't have to compare the teams at all. Just comment on what he and his team have to do better next time to get a win. But talking about how you think you are better after a loss is a punk move. He and his band of brothers haven't proven anything. Not last season, not the season before and certainly not THIS season so far. All he and his team have shown is that they can lose games against quality teams (excluding Temple of course). And wasn't the Temple game played in MSG or at least on St John's campus? Perhaps St. John's can't knock off any good teams on the road or at a neutral site. Regardless he lost. He need to suck it up like a man and accept it; not make claims that his team is better than the team that just gave him a L. Perhaps there was nothing that Gtown did last night that would suggest they are a dominant team but there also wasn't anything that Johnnies did yesterday that tells me they are better. The Hoyas lost a lot of close games last season in which they gave away a lead late in the contest. Yet I don't recall any quotes by Hoyas during that season in which they claimed they were better than the team that defeated them. And I'm sure that type of attitude, sportsmanship and class starts at the top with the head coach. Which tells me all I need to know about Stormin' Norman who would have been fired light years ago by almost any other program. Even DePaul wouldn't keep him around that long with such little results to show for it. ] Why you so worried about our coach for? If he sucks why would you want him fired? Doesn't add up. So you're telling me you wouldn't wanting Monroe to think he is better than opposing teams even if they lost? Also we beat Siena and Temple at the Palestra in Philly right in Temple's backyard. I was at both games and the opponents both traveled better than us. So I don't see your point there. Big East road games are tougher to get W's. If you look historically the past 5 years many teams in this conference struggle on the road but the "elite" get it done. Thats what St. John's needs to do and we haven't. Johnny... I can understand why you'd be confused about Georgetown fans wanting your coach to be fired. Here's the backstory. As early as probably 2 seasons ago, many G'Town fans on this board (myself included) were lamenting the loss of the rivalry between the Johnnies and the Hoyas due to the (dare I say) embarrassing state of your program. It was to the point where we were empathetic for your team and fans as most of us remember the Esh years. We were rooting for your program to make a comeback in a big way. At least to respectability as you were a past staple and strong part of the Big East and yet had become a complete joke and a conference-wide embarrassment. It was so damn bad that we, as Georgetown fans, actually felt bad for you all. That's how flippin' bad you were. And, I suppose you guys have returned to respectability. However, now that you're of the mind that you're "better" than other teams in the conference, we're sorta back to the eff you mentality which, I suppose, signals the renewal of the rivalry. As has been in the past, and as evidenced by the game yesterday, we're still the better team in the rivalry. Welcome back to pseudo-respectability and remember what it feels like to lose to the Hoyas. Now that it's fresh in your mind, isn't it better to lose less frequently to much better competition than just losing to pretty much everyone? It is better right? In any case, you'll still lose to the Hoyas cuz, 25 years later, we're still better. Hard to swallow though no less true because of it. It's an unfamiliar feeling to win or feel like you can compete in this league and that's why Burrell gets a pass. And, to be honest, it's nice to see your guys having confidence again in a program with a long and storied history. Sadly for you, your current history is going to include losing to Georgetown every day of the week and twice on Sunday because our teams are really not even close to being on par with each other. Enjoy the lower half of the Big East. We saw it last year and we hated it. That's why we won't be there this year. You've seen it every year but are still powerless to change it but you're getting close. Enjoy your softer schedule and, at the end of the year, looking up in the standings and seeing the Hoyas. At the least, you should be used to that. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 1, 2010 22:51:13 GMT -5
By the way, how did you guys miss out on Lance "Born Ready?" He seems like just the chest-punching, smack talking players you guys love having on your squad?
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Post by Johnny Jungle on Jan 1, 2010 23:16:19 GMT -5
I understand people get defensive about their teams. I'm not trying to diminish anything this team has done but just voicing my opinion. The Hoyas aren't perfect nor is St. John's.
I fail to see what insulting me, my website(which doesn't crash on firefox because I use firefox everyday), or St. John's for that matter does to any points that I have raised. If you can give me something concrete on why you think the Hoyas are going to do so well in the conference I'm all ears. Why is this year different than last? I'm willing to hear you out. I'm not here to troll or complain.
I've been on this board before and the responses that I got weren't like these. Sh*t when did you guys get so hostile and angry?
Also in direct response to tashoya. I've discussed this on this board before about the similarities to the Esherick and Roberts situation. The board was pretty sympathetic and overall friendly. Now we beat you guys twice last year, you didn't see any smack from me after, and you got us this year and everyone unloads on me. Damn. I see how it is. Rivalry on! Also Lance's dad is crazy period. There is too much to that to go into nor do I want to. Next Georgetown/St. John's game buy a few beers and you'll get the E True Jungle story.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jan 1, 2010 23:27:36 GMT -5
as much as i loved both hoyas these are a big reasons for the different team.. we have No DaJuan "I dont like team ball" Summers and no Jessie "im not playing well anymore but still eat up minutes" Sapp. and also a young team tends to learn from their mistakes. oh and a third point if I may add... Yes III Can!
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