Georgetown 66 St. John's 59 Discussion

[HoyaSinceBirth]

www.redmen.com/login/forumdisplay.php?f=8
according to st. john's fans both Mase and Burrell are doubtful for the game. But burrell is more likely to play of the 2.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

"goodmanonfox

St. John's coach Norm Roberts said Justin Burrell may return Thursday vs. G'Town and Anthony Mason possibly Jan. 3 for Providence."

[TBird41]

Looking back at the efficiency stats from last year's SJU's games (courtesy of Hoya Prospectus), there are a couple of areas that stick out:

OR%:
SJU got 42.9% of the offensive rebounds available in the first game and 32.4% the second (though 47.4% in the second half).

FT%:
St. John's shot 88.2% from the line in the first game and 82.8% in the second game.

SJU isn't rebounding as well as they did last year (they're OReb% is 36.8% this year w/o BE games v. 37.1 last year), but they're shooting free throws about as well as last year (and their 68% from the line over the course of the season obviously did not prevent them from shooting 85% against us).

We're rebounding on the defensive end a lot better than last year though, only giving up 27.9% (34th overall) of available offensive rebounds compared to 36.2% (262nd overall) last year.

[FLHoya]

You know why this is a good opening game for the BE season? This is what it reminds me of:

Many of us folks here have taken the GRE, and some of us young'ns did so during the era of the computerized GRE.

If I remember correctly the format behind the computer version of the GRE, the first question you're asked in each section (math/verbal) is one that the test-makers expect 50% of test-takers will answer correctly. The difficulty of subsequent questions is adjusted based on how well you're doing--so if you got question #1 right, question #2 should be slightly more difficult.

St. John's at home strikes me as that kind of middle of the road question #1 (Depaul as question #2--not so much).

Dec 29, 2009 17:11:59 GMT -5 Big Dog said:

The point is that a home defeat here, data point though it is, would be predictive of a home defeat loss to UConn, and of serious potential difficulty with @marq and SHU.

Yeah, I lost faith in things like predictability and logic last season when we beat an eventual Final Four team on the road on the last day of February. Or a different Final Four team on the road the last week of December. Or beat a 2 seed and 3 seed at home. Or Maryland by nearly thirty.

Also, the half-dozen or so losses to teams that didn't make the tournament.

That whole "just another data point thing" is cause I got nothing else. ;D

[GUJook97]

At this point, I would say that we are eerily in almost the exact same spot we were at this time last year. It's almost like redemption is calling! Our OOC featured 1 very good win and performance (UConn/Wash), two good wins (Butler, Temple/Maryland, Memphis), a decent loss (Tenn/ODU), and a ranking right around the mid-teens.

We all said that as long as we took care of the games we should win in the BE and maybe throw in a couple of good home upsets and road wins, that we would make the tourney last year. I would say the exact same thing for this year. It starts with winning games like SJU at home, DePaul on the road.

[williambraskyiii]

Dec 30, 2009 10:26:01 GMT -5 GUJook97 said:

At this point, I would say that we are eerily in almost the exact same spot we were at this time last year. It's almost like redemption is calling! Our OOC featured 1 very good win and performance (UConn/Wash), two good wins (Butler, Temple/Maryland, Memphis), a decent loss (Tenn/ODU), and a ranking right around the mid-teens.

We all said that as long as we took care of the games we should win in the BE and maybe throw in a couple of good home upsets and road wins, that we would make the tourney last year. I would say the exact same thing for this year. It starts with winning games like SJU at home, DePaul on the road.

This is a stretch. UConn was the number 2 team in the country and we beat them at their house. Also TN and ODU are not the same in terms of losses. TN was a neutral site loss to a top 15 team.

Let's stop trying to draw comparisons and just go out and win. SJU will try to ugly the game up -- we need to match their toughness and grind out a W. It would also be nice if our shooters were hitting from the outside. This is not going to be an easy game.

[Filo]

I am feeling pretty good about this team and am pretty comfortable that we will win. I guess the nagging question for me, with the backdrop of the loss to ODU* and the two losses against SJU last year, is whether this team can stay in there against tough physical teams and then get the job done.

Was ODU a physical team? I didn't see the game.

[lichoya68]

JUST BEAT EM PAYBACK TIME NO ODUS AND SLEEPINESS PLEASE GO HOYAS BEAT THE JOHNNIES FLUSH THEM GOOD happy new year so please make us ALL happy with a freaking win over these god forsaken johnny people who always freaking upset us PLEASE its february now really for real big east is HERE NOW

[lichoya68]

ODU WAS physical and had muscle and hustle and could should and rebbound yup a good team if we were half awake in the first half we woulda won but cant sleep and win nope vs nobody especailly the johnnies they LOVE to beat us LETS BEGINTHE BIG EAST ON THE WRIGHT NOTE GO HOYAS

[hoyalove4ever]

Being a successful program is primarily about winning the vast majority of games we are "supposed" to win (at home, better talent, more experience, etc.). This game will not be easy, but to have a good season we have to consider this game a "should-win" scenario. Hence, given the way I look at things, I cannot begin to consider how crushed I would be if we lost (hopefully, much more so than the team would be if that unthinkable outcome occurs

BEAT SJU!!!

[HoyaSinceBirth]

www.facebook.com/home.php?#/video/video.php?v=252332525311&ref=nf

not sure if everyone can see this or not, but it's a message from coach to fans posted on facebook about the upcoming st. john's game.

[GUJook97]

Dec 30, 2009 10:51:32 GMT -5 williambraskyiii said:

Dec 30, 2009 10:26:01 GMT -5 GUJook97 said:

At this point, I would say that we are eerily in almost the exact same spot we were at this time last year. It's almost like redemption is calling! Our OOC featured 1 very good win and performance (UConn/Wash), two good wins (Butler, Temple/Maryland, Memphis), a decent loss (Tenn/ODU), and a ranking right around the mid-teens.

We all said that as long as we took care of the games we should win in the BE and maybe throw in a couple of good home upsets and road wins, that we would make the tourney last year. I would say the exact same thing for this year. It starts with winning games like SJU at home, DePaul on the road.

This is a stretch. UConn was the number 2 team in the country and we beat them at their house. Also TN and ODU are not the same in terms of losses. TN was a neutral site loss to a top 15 team.

Let's stop trying to draw comparisons and just go out and win. SJU will try to ugly the game up -- we need to match their toughness and grind out a W. It would also be nice if our shooters were hitting from the outside. This is not going to be an easy game.

It's probably a stretch, but I would say that I regard this team to be in the same position entering Big East play as we were last year. My expectations are very tempered because of what happened last year in the OOC portion and then what played out in Big East. On the one hand, I am concerned we are not much different than last year, but also excited that we learned lessons from last season and wont make the same mistakes.

[JohnnyJones]

Dec 30, 2009 13:58:31 GMT -5 hoyalove4ever said:

Being a successful program is primarily about winning the vast majority of games we are "supposed" to win (at home, better talent, more experience, etc.). This game will not be easy, but to have a good season we have to consider this game a "should-win" scenario. Hence, given the way I look at things, I cannot begin to consider how crushed I would be if we lost (hopefully, much more so than the team would be if that unthinkable outcome occurs

BEAT SJU!!!

I agree. I have been studying the schedule and trying to determine how we get to 12 regular season conference wins. To have a shot at getting to 12-6, we must win games like SJU at home. Must. A loss tomorrow and in the other games like it just leaves so little room for error going forward. While obviously we could lose or win any game, as I look at the schedule, I see depressingly few games that I can very comfortably put a W next to right now (what else other than SF at home and DePaul on the road?). After having recently watched Rutgers v. UNC and seeing MU almost beat WVU in Morgantown, I now put those games in the "SJU at home" category, along with games like ND at home, @pitt, @pc etc. Maybe I am being too pessimistic/scared, or just still scarred by last year's conference performance after 1/14/09. Others have suggested maybe 10-8 or even 11-7 is more realistic, but I would like 12 conference wins, please.

[sleepy]

Dec 30, 2009 14:25:13 GMT -5 GUJook97 said:

Dec 30, 2009 10:51:32 GMT -5 williambraskyiii said:

This is a stretch. UConn was the number 2 team in the country and we beat them at their house. Also TN and ODU are not the same in terms of losses. TN was a neutral site loss to a top 15 team.

Let's stop trying to draw comparisons and just go out and win. SJU will try to ugly the game up -- we need to match their toughness and grind out a W. It would also be nice if our shooters were hitting from the outside. This is not going to be an easy game.

It's probably a stretch, but I would say that I regard this team to be in the same position entering Big East play as we were last year. My expectations are very tempered because of what happened last year in the OOC portion and then what played out in Big East. On the one hand, I am concerned we are not much different than last year, but also excited that we learned lessons from last season and wont make the same mistakes.

People will see what they want to see. We aren't in the same position as last year. For one, we have better wins than we did at this time last year(excluding Uconn as that hadn't happened until tonight and was a Big East game). Two, we aren't starting two guys who never played in a Big East regular season game and trying to replace the heart and soul of our team the year before. Three, this team knows what to expect going into the Big East this year and seem to understand that you have to take it one game at a time. Fourth, and most importantly, we aren't starting Big East play with that brutal 7 game stretch like we did last year. Do you really think that collapse would have happened if we switch home agaist Pitt and @nd for home against Depaul and @seton Hall? Because I don't. Last year was a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances, and trying to make connections to last year or any past year is pointless because every year is different, every team is different.
We may lose just as much as we did last year or win just as much as we did two years ago, but I am pretty confident that no matter the result it will be for different reasons than what caused past year's results.

[GUJook97]

You are exactly right. People will see what they want to see, and its fine if you want to write off last year and make a lot of excuses for it, but we flat out underachieved. And, heck yes, I do think the collapse would have happened. Please dont tell me it had to do with unfortunate circumstances and scheduling. We stunk. We were losing to EVERYBODY. You could make a very strong case that we were the biggest disappointment in college basketball last season. That at least deserves some caution in judging this year. Last time I checked, we have mostly the same guys. It's not like I am saying we are bad, but the jury is definitely still out. And, I really dont think our wins this year are much better than last.

[theexorcist]

Dec 30, 2009 15:01:22 GMT -5 GUJook97 said:

You are exactly right. People will see what they want to see, and its fine if you want to write off last year and make a lot of excuses for it, but we flat out underachieved. And, heck yes, I do think the collapse would have happened. Please dont tell me it had to do with unfortunate circumstances and scheduling. We stunk. We were losing to EVERYBODY. You could make a very strong case that we were the biggest disappointment in college basketball last season. That at least deserves some caution in judging this year. Last time I checked, we have mostly the same guys. It's not like I am saying we are bad, but the jury is definitely still out. And, I really dont think our wins this year are much better than last.

I have to agree here. Georgetown last year had a home game against Pitt that, had they won, would have catapulted the Hoyas into the top 5, if not higher. They beat the past year's national finalists at home in overtime, and destroyed a participant in that year's Final Four AT UCONN. Later on in the season, they beat another Final Four participant AT VILLANOVA.

Of course, also during that season, they lost at Seton Hall in a comedy of errors and lost twice to EXPLETIVE DELETED St. John's and were blown out by WVU (AT HOME), and Louisville. They finished twelfth in the conference. Their last home game was a giant bowl of disappointment when they beat DePaul 48-40 in a turnover-filled pain-a-thon. Oh, and they lost to a middling Baylor team in the first round of the NIT - yes, a team that beat TWO of the Final Four participants ON THEIR HOME COURT lost in the first round of the NIT to EXPLETIVE DELETED BAYLOR.

There's no question that they underachieved.

My apologies for dredging up pain.

[GIGAFAN99]

Where's this thread gone? I clearly stated in my previous post

2009: I don't even want to talk about it.

Please respect my wishes and NOT TALK ABOUT IT.

We have game 1 of this Big East season tomorrow against a solid St. Johns team. I'd venture to say this is the St. Johns team with the best chance of a good season since the one that beat us in the NIT Finals in 2003.

It's at home and we should have a chip on our shoulders. This is exactly the type of game the Hoyas need to win.

[guru]

Dec 30, 2009 15:14:01 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

Dec 30, 2009 15:01:22 GMT -5 GUJook97 said:

You are exactly right. People will see what they want to see, and its fine if you want to write off last year and make a lot of excuses for it, but we flat out underachieved. And, heck yes, I do think the collapse would have happened. Please dont tell me it had to do with unfortunate circumstances and scheduling. We stunk. We were losing to EVERYBODY. You could make a very strong case that we were the biggest disappointment in college basketball last season. That at least deserves some caution in judging this year. Last time I checked, we have mostly the same guys. It's not like I am saying we are bad, but the jury is definitely still out. And, I really dont think our wins this year are much better than last.

I have to agree here. Georgetown last year had a home game against Pitt that, had they won, would have catapulted the Hoyas into the top 5, if not higher. They beat the past year's national finalists at home in overtime, and destroyed a participant in that year's Final Four AT UCONN. Later on in the season, they beat another Final Four participant AT VILLANOVA.

Of course, also during that season, they lost at Seton Hall in a comedy of errors and lost twice to EXPLETIVE DELETED St. John's and were blown out by WVU (AT HOME), and Louisville. They finished twelfth in the conference. Their last home game was a giant bowl of disappointment when they beat DePaul 48-40 in a turnover-filled pain-a-thon. Oh, and they lost to a middling Baylor team in the first round of the NIT - yes, a team that beat TWO of the Final Four participants ON THEIR HOME COURT lost in the first round of the NIT to EXPLETIVE DELETED BAYLOR.

There's no question that they underachieved.

My apologies for dredging up pain.

I don't think there's any question that the Hoyas were the biggest disappointment/underachiever in all of college hoops last season. That team had the talent necessary to not only make the NCAA Tournament but make some noise in it. Instead they go out in the first round of the NIT and finish a game above .500? It was a horrible job by everyone associated with the team - but it's over. THANK GOD it's over. I don't think I could take a repeat performance.

[GUJook97]

I hear you, Giga. It will be a good game, and i will be there. i cant wait.

[tashoya]

I don't care what the names on the backs of the unis say. This is an entirely different squad. No point comparing apples and oranges. Let's get it on! HOYA SAXA!