FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 14, 2009 20:00:08 GMT -5
4. Luther Campbell's s*it-eating grin when he (completely unconvincingly) denied any knowledge of the "pay for play" scandal. Watch this part of it again. He said completely sarcastically that he would never do such a thing - it wasn't at all a denial, it was a contempt-filled admission. Yeah I did watch it again...pretty funny. It's hard to see his face because...did they film him in the Champagne Room of some strip club? For most of the 30 for 30 films I've said I wished they were at least twice as long. I could honestly have watched a series of 5 films on The U--break it up into Schnellenberger, Johnson through the Fiesta Bowl, 1987-1988 (and throw in all the taunting stuff), Erickson, and the downfall (which really deserves its own film...Corben totally glossed over what a big deal the probation was, and how big a deal the Sports Illustrated cover story was, not to mention as whatamaroon pointed out, losing to Alabama and then Arizona the next year was a BIG deal...AND the Whammy in Miami game in 1994 which gets a highlight but no context was beyond devastating and you knew the era was over). Just a sign though that ESPN did right by this series--come up with compelling, most previously "untold" stories, give 'em to good directors, and let the magic happen. Can't wait for the Reggie Miller one in March.
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Hoyaholic
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 748
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Post by Hoyaholic on Dec 16, 2009 19:50:02 GMT -5
I thought the best part of the whole program was Bernie Kosar looking and sounding like he had just stumbled out of happy hour. He made Irvin look sober by comparison.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Dec 17, 2009 1:22:02 GMT -5
As for the GU basketball angle...
Here's my question: at the exact same time as Miami was rising to prominence in football, so was Georgetown in basketball. Obviously there are differences--Miami's outlaw image was far more grounded in, ya know, actual breaking of laws for one thing--but both programs essentially created a new identity you didn't see before in their sports. It was intimidating, it was mean, it was larger than life, it was...well, African American. GU players obviously took a fair amount of abuse from fans, and were the "hated" Evil Empire team alongside Miami football for the same era.
Does this affect how GU basketball fans from the 1980s view Miami? Or were they different enough (or Miami over the top enough) that it was apples and oranges? To me, it IS Apples and Oranges. You've alluded to the major difference. While I was not a U fan and didn't pay close attention to that program, they earned their reputation as convicts and bad guys by being actual convicts and bad guys. Of course, they were also very successful on the field. Had they not been, no one would have cared and we wouldn't be posting in this thread. The only thing Georgetown did to "earn" their reputation was hire a black coach. And not just any black coach. But a 6'10, 300 lb, imposing figure who made his opinions known and would not and did not back down from anyone. He took over a minor D1 program -- whose OWN expectations for their basketball program were simply to reach the NIT from time to time. [Younger fans should know the NIT was far more prestigious back in the day as the NCAA Tourney only had 16 teams at that time.] But Pops had BIG dreams and was determined to get an NCAA title, to show that Black coaches could coach Black players and achieve at the highest levels on the court -- and also succeed in the Classroom -- because he knew from personal experience that the League would provide a living for only a very small, tiny percentage of kids who play college hoops. Thompson emphasized education... and he meant it and he lived up to it. I don't think U ever did, did it? The Hoyas played tough, east coast basketball. Combined with the "Black" aspect, the black team, the big, tough, black coach... it was easy to attribute pre-conceived notions of rough, intimidating, "un-fair" play to GU. On the other hand, the Detroit Pistons were called the Bad Boys -- but they had a big white center, Bill Laimbeer, and a white coach, Chuck Daly -- so they didn't get the added insinuations of the racial angle. Think of pure, white "good guy" Christian Laettner and his Dukie brethren and their lily white reputation. Now picture in your mind the highlight that showed Laettner stepping on the opposing player who had fallen? Ooops -- truth hurts. But what if Patrick had done that? That is probably supporting your thesis. Pat, GU and JT would have been obliterated. Race is a hugely powerful factor and alters perceptions. Maybe that is where the similarity lies. Tough kids who were also black and had the audacity to win... all the time. So lots of people didn't like them. But, as mentioned, IMHO -- Miami earned their convicts rep -- not from their color, but from their actions -- and their success. GU's rep was attributed bu those who didn't like losing to us despite a roster of essentially very good guys who all graduated, but who were also Black and who also won. +1 Well said as always, SirSaxa
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,002
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Post by 757hoyafan on Dec 17, 2009 16:17:05 GMT -5
To me, it IS Apples and Oranges. You've alluded to the major difference. While I was not a U fan and didn't pay close attention to that program, they earned their reputation as convicts and bad guys by being actual convicts and bad guys. Of course, they were also very successful on the field. Had they not been, no one would have cared and we wouldn't be posting in this thread. The only thing Georgetown did to "earn" their reputation was hire a black coach. And not just any black coach. But a 6'10, 300 lb, imposing figure who made his opinions known and would not and did not back down from anyone. He took over a minor D1 program -- whose OWN expectations for their basketball program were simply to reach the NIT from time to time. [Younger fans should know the NIT was far more prestigious back in the day as the NCAA Tourney only had 16 teams at that time.] But Pops had BIG dreams and was determined to get an NCAA title, to show that Black coaches could coach Black players and achieve at the highest levels on the court -- and also succeed in the Classroom -- because he knew from personal experience that the League would provide a living for only a very small, tiny percentage of kids who play college hoops. Thompson emphasized education... and he meant it and he lived up to it. I don't think U ever did, did it? The Hoyas played tough, east coast basketball. Combined with the "Black" aspect, the black team, the big, tough, black coach... it was easy to attribute pre-conceived notions of rough, intimidating, "un-fair" play to GU. On the other hand, the Detroit Pistons were called the Bad Boys -- but they had a big white center, Bill Laimbeer, and a white coach, Chuck Daly -- so they didn't get the added insinuations of the racial angle. Think of pure, white "good guy" Christian Laettner and his Dukie brethren and their lily white reputation. Now picture in your mind the highlight that showed Laettner stepping on the opposing player who had fallen? Ooops -- truth hurts. But what if Patrick had done that? That is probably supporting your thesis. Pat, GU and JT would have been obliterated. Race is a hugely powerful factor and alters perceptions. Maybe that is where the similarity lies. Tough kids who were also black and had the audacity to win... all the time. So lots of people didn't like them. But, as mentioned, IMHO -- Miami earned their convicts rep -- not from their color, but from their actions -- and their success. GU's rep was attributed bu those who didn't like losing to us despite a roster of essentially very good guys who all graduated, but who were also Black and who also won. +1 Well said as always, SirSaxa What gave you the impression that the coaches for Miami never stressed getting a degree? If they failed to do so--times have changed.. UM FOOTBALL Miami Hurricanes hit the books and opponents hard The Hurricanes are also excelling off the field as five more players graduate Thursday -- at least two of them in 3 1/2 years. Do not post articles. Use links instead.--Admin
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Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,578
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Post by Gold Hoya on Jan 20, 2010 17:13:05 GMT -5
ESPN will premier the 30 for 30 Iverson film on April 13 at 8pm ET. bit.ly/7Q9XjlNo Crossover: The Trial of Allen Iverson (Steve James) – April 13, 8 p.m.
On Valentine's Day 1993, 17-year-old Bethel High School basketball star Allen Iverson was bowling in Hampton, Va., with five high school friends. It was supposed to be an ordinary evening, but it became a night that defined Iverson’s young life. A quarrel soon erupted into a brawl pitting Iverson’s young, black friends against a group of white patrons. The fallout from the fight and the handling of the subsequent trial landed the teenager -- considered by some the nation's best high school athlete -- in jail and sharply divided the city along racial lines. Oscar nominee Steve James (Hoop Dreams) returns to his hometown of Hampton, where he once played basketball, to take a personal look at this still-disputed incident and examine its impact on Iverson and the shared community.
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PhillyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,016
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Post by PhillyHoya on Jan 20, 2010 18:17:05 GMT -5
The first 2 minutes or so of the Reggie Miller vs. the Knicks film is online: tiny.cc/QZgVjBetween this and the Iverson film it's gonna be a good spring.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 26, 2010 20:51:54 GMT -5
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